What did Christ mean in Matthew 7:21-23?

[discipler777]

On 12/7/2018 at 11:37 AM, Pollycy said:

But it is very confusing to me, and almost terrifying in a way, to read what is written in Matthew 7:21 - 23:

Matthew 7:21-23 New International Version (NIV)
True and False Disciples
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

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MARK.9:38-41 (NKJV) = 38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”

39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. 40 For he who is not against us is on our side. 41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward.

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2THESSALONIANS.2:9-10= 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

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MATTHEW.7:15-20 = You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

[Still Alive]

On 12/6/2018 at 10:37 PM, Pollycy said:

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 

Notice Jesus did not say they did those things. Rather, they claim to have done these things. It doesn't mean they did. 

[stillseeking]

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SIMPLY THIS , IF WE HAVE the LOVE OF GOD on our hearts , WE WOULD LOVE JESUS .   IF WE LOVE JESUS WE WOULD LOVE AND DO ALL HIS SAYINGS

No one "does" the will of the father perfectly, so how can we determine who is counted as "doing"? 

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On 12/6/2018 at 7:37 PM, Pollycy said:

What I find so disturbing is the idea that someone could be such a devout Christian that they could cast out evil spirits and perform miracles in Christ's name, and yet be named as "evildoers" by Christ, and for Him to say that he wanted them to get away from Him.   

 

Look at youtube for this video where someone change water into wine:

Yif Magic水變酒 [官方HD] Water to Wine

If he does it in the name of Jesus it will be like this :

Look at youtube : Shocking miracle !!! Water turned into wine, history has been repeated.

I'm not sure those examples count...the verse mentions those who PERFORMED MIRACLES, not APPEARED TO do so. 

Echoing @Pollycy's question. 

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MARK.9:38-41 (NKJV) = 38 Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”

39 But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. 

Then how is it possible that many will perform miracles in Jesus' name and still go to hell? 

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Notice Jesus did not say they did those things. Rather, they claim to have done these things. It doesn't mean they did. 

We don't know if they did or didn't. 

What's terrifying to me is that it seems frightfully easy to accidentally believe the wrong thing and accidentally be sent to hell.  It's incredibly difficult to figure out the truth...ask 6 different scholars and get 6 different answers   And yes, that can be 6 different Christian scholars...I verified this myself by asking a number of different pastors, "Who are the people who, in Matt 7:21-23, get sent to hell even though they did good things in Jesus' name?" 

Praying for wisdom and discernment on this doesn't seem to help.  God is silent on that so far.  And those with explanations can never seem to provide sufficient reasons why their interpretation is correct and others are wrong.  It's a huge frustration for me that the entire Christian experience is a joyless fear of accidentally going to hell for accidentally being deceived. 

[George]

4 minutes ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

Right here on this site I have had some battles against these demonic spirits on various topics, whose spirits comes sowing their apostasies and lies through their demonic interpretations of the Word of God, as happened in Eden, and when I denounced the presence of these sowers of tares on this site, I was banished from these topics and the spirits of these false preachers of the Scriptures kept sowing their satanic tares among the posters of this site evidently, only I could not participate with the true brethren in the fight against these counterfeiters of the Word of God and without access and chance to read and fight against the demonic doctrines of corrupt men that they continued to post on the site.

When you call someone a heretic, and a worker of Satan because they have a different opinion of a Scripture than you ... it's not tolerated.  It's not that hard to follow some simple rules ... Abuse of other posters is not allowed. This includes, but is not limited to, name calling, insulting, harassing, threatening or in any way invading the privacy of another poster. We also strongly discourage giving out personal information such as email addresses, physical addresses and phone numbers on the public boards. Any information given out in private is at your own discretion and risk. (Eph. 4: 29)

If you can't follow the Terms of Service ... then you are disrespecting the very authority that you submitted yourself to when you wanted to participate on the forums contending for the faith.  

It's really quite simple ... the Word of God will go forth and will not return void ... and the goal should be the restoration of any brethren ...

2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil,  correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,  and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

God bless you,

George

[George]

@Oseas Ramos de Siqueira  Do you see even in your post toward me ... it's harsh ... a rebuke as if we tolerate false teachers teaching all kinds of "doctrines of devils."  

THERE IS A difference in how you handle a False Teacher ... and one caught in a falsehood. 

Toward the False Teacher ...

Gal 1:6  I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 
Gal 1:7  not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 
Gal 1:8  But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 
Gal 1:9  As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. 
Gal 1:10  For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God? Or am I trying to please man? If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ. 

Paul was rebuking the TEACHERS that were causing these Galatians to get caught in trying to justify their faith by the law.  However, his address to those caught under the "spell" he speaks differently.

Gal 4:8  But then, indeed, not knowing God, you served as slaves to those not by nature being gods. 
Gal 4:9  But now, knowing God, but rather are known by God, how do you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements to which you again desire to slave anew? 
Gal 4:10  You observe days and months and times and years. 
Gal 4:11  I fear for you, lest somehow I have labored among you in vain. 
Gal 4:12  Brothers, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as you. You have not injured me at all. 
Gal 4:13  But you know that through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel to you before, 
Gal 4:14  and you did not despise my temptation in my flesh, nor did you spurn it. But you received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus. 
Gal 4:15  What then was your blessedness? For I bear you record that, if you were able, plucking out your eyes, you would have given them to me. 
Gal 4:16  So then did I become your enemy speaking to you the truth? 
Gal 4:17  They are zealous for you, but not well. But they only desire to shut you out, that you be zealous to them. 
Gal 4:18  But it is good to be zealous always in a good thing, and not only in my being present with you. 
Gal 4:19  My children, for whom I again travail until Christ should be formed in you, 
Gal 4:20  even now I desired to be present with you, and to change my voice; for I am in doubt as to you. 

Gal 5:13  For, brothers, you were called to liberty. Only do not use the liberty for an opening to the flesh, but by love serve one another.

Paul rebukes the teachers trying to corrupt his disciples.  However, he's trying to draw back those whom got caught in their error -- 

Gal 6:1  Brothers, if a man is overtaken in a fault, you the spiritual ones restore such a one in the spirit of meekness, considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.

So with every situation, and with every person -- is a difference in restoration.  Some are simply "false teachers" while others are merely caught up in a false doctrine.

It's pretty clear ... there's a difference!

[George]

Just another thought ... you'll notice there's no "pastors" or "teachers" labels.  As soon as someone labels himself a "pastor" or a "teacher", then it's a different ballgame! 

However, since everyone in the Inner Court abides by a Statement of Faith ... they are family ... and thus should be treated in such a manner!   

If someone starts claiming "pastoral authority" and they are "doctrinally" wrong ... then the rebuke and actions taken by myself are of a different stature since it's a transition from someone caught in error -- and now dealing with a false teacher.  

[Mike Mclees]

Hi Pollycy   

Many new believers let their head do the talking and not God. This can drive you nuts or to do this and that that God did not ask you to do. This is common and I was one. I don't want to go into it right now. This is what you need to learn. Wait on God. Most of us whether we know it or no have Gifts they don't know they have. Doing the will of the Father is listening to Him. Just be your self and don't get tossed around. 

This is what I had to learn and all that is asked of us. The two Greatest commandments.  Love the Lord Thy God with all thy heart and soul.and thy neighbor as thyself. You can be doing Gods will every day just by being kind and gentle to some one. Help someone with out a car get to an appointment or groceries. God speaks the loudest to other by our action that match our faith. Slow down and let God. You take a world of stress off your self. Down the line God will reveal something in you that is quite natural for you but you just don't see it yet. You are doing great and don't worry

Be blessed

Mike

Edited December 25, 2018 by Mike Mclees

[George]

3 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

What we see is that in all Christians forums the false teachers and all their followers twist Scriptures spreading their evil tares freely among the believers - their false doctrines and false interpretations of Scriptures -  and who fights against these demons are banned from the topic,  or even from the site, bec ause they forgot the recomendation of Peter the Apostle saying: (2Pe 3:17-18 & 15-16)

So ... have you reported them?  Because I've never seen a report from you!  I mean if it's so rampant ... I'm sure they are being reported.  You are not talking to "false prophets" or "false teachers" -- but rather brothers and sisters in the Lord when you post within the Inner Court.   

You are BANNED from topics, because you accuse people of who disagree with you in love as if they are somehow the enemy, just as you've had this discussion with me.  You're talking to a brother in the Lord!     

It's a FORUM board ... whereby Christians are DISCUSSING different topics!  If everyone agreed ... then there would be no discussion. 

Within the Inner Court ... it's isolated to Christians ONLY!  So please be respectful ... that's all I ask! 

[discipler777]

On 12/21/2018 at 11:33 AM, George said:

However, since everyone in the Inner Court abides by a Statement of Faith ... they are family ... and thus should be treated in such a manner! 

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MATTHEW.18:15-17 (NKJV) = Dealing with a Sinning Brother

15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

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1CORINTHIANS.5:9-13 = Immorality Must Be Judged

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

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HEBREWS.10:26-31 = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 

30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

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1CORINTHIANS.11:27-32 = Examine Yourself

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

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john1 said:

When I had read the bible about 30 or 40 times I felt right at home in church, I remember a pastor did a sermon against gay people, I almost applauded, but now that I've read the bible over 200 times I know he was in the wrong.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/230623-am-i-wasting-my-time-i-think-everyone-needs-to-study-the-bible-more-and-be-less-concerned-about-work-and-money-you-dont-need-to-work-full-time-to-serve-god-and-you-dont-have-to-give-a-lot-to-charity-or-am-i-misunderstanding/?page=5&tab=comments#comment-2908094

There are Christians who seem to abide by the SOF but approve and condone the willful sins/evil-works or the breaking of God's essential/non-burdensome laws(GALATIANS.5:19-21, 1COR.6:9-10, REV.22:14-15) committed unrepentantly by other Christian "family" or "brethren/sisthren".

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George said:

We believe in the ongoing work of sanctification by the Holy Spirit after redemption for the purpose of producing life changing fruit — love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness and self-control.

This was to show that a truly born again person will start bearing true fruit.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/230156-an-insiders-view-from-the-outside/?do=findComment&comment=2903342

There are some "Christians" on this forum who bear bad or evil fruits/works of the flesh and have unscriptural views/teachings but they seem to be approved/condoned and "protected" like environmentally-endangered 'wolves in sheep clothing' on this forum or as family. It's like the wife protecting her husband who committed pedophilia/incest against her daughters/sons and other children or like the Catholic Popes protecting his unmarried priests who were pedophiling Catholic boys. It's all in the family.?

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P S - Personally, after a while, I just ignore such Christians who have unscriptural views/teachings on this forum.

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Edited December 25, 2018 by discipler777

[Mike Mclees]

19 hours ago, discipler777 said:

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MATTHEW.18:15-17 (NKJV) = Dealing with a Sinning Brother

15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.

.

1CORINTHIANS.5:9-13 = Immorality Must Be Judged

9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

.

HEBREWS.10:26-31 = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 

30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

.

1CORINTHIANS.11:27-32 = Examine Yourself

27 Therefore whoever eats this bread or drinks this cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner eats and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world.

.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/230623-am-i-wasting-my-time-i-think-everyone-needs-to-study-the-bible-more-and-be-less-concerned-about-work-and-money-you-dont-need-to-work-full-time-to-serve-god-and-you-dont-have-to-give-a-lot-to-charity-or-am-i-misunderstanding/?page=5&tab=comments#comment-2908094

There are Christians who seem to abide by the SOF but approve and condone the willful sins/evil-works or the breaking of God's essential/non-burdensome laws(GALATIANS.5:19-21, 1COR.6:9-10, REV.22:14-15) committed unrepentantly by other Christian "family" or "brethren/sisthren".

.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/230156-an-insiders-view-from-the-outside/?do=findComment&comment=2903342

There are some "Christians" on this forum who bear bad or evil fruits/works of the flesh and have unscriptural views/teachings but they seem to be approved/condoned and "protected" like environmentally-endangered 'wolves in sheep clothing' on this forum or as family. It's like the wife protecting her husband who committed pedophilia/incest against her daughters/sons and other children or like the Catholic Popes protecting his unmarried priests who were pedophiling Catholic boys. It's all in the family.?

.

P S - Personally, after a while, I just ignore such Christians who have unscriptural views/teachings on this forum.

.

Yes there is always the legalist who are the epitome of perfection. I thank God though for His love and long suffering  that accomplishes  what he does best..

He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion. God knows men more than any his creation.  

Merry Christmas

Edited December 26, 2018 by Mike Mclees