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THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PETER AND PAUL ON THE RESURRECTION


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A quick glance at the posts will demonstrate that many are talking at cross-purposes. How one is saved and how they maintain salvation is a contraversial subject. We can’t just quote scriptures back and forth. I’m guilty as well. 

When scholars look at systematic theology they  follow a process:

gather all the textual data (properly exegeted)

Examine all the different theories of salvation 

argue why one view has more explanatory scope or depth than the others.

https://www.amazon.com/Views-Salvation-Pluralistic-World-Counterpoints-ebook/dp/B003WE9ZKC

For a thorough examination of the Doctrine of Salvation (15 podcasts) see:

https://www.reasonablefaith.org/podcasts/defenders-podcast-series-2/s2-doctrine-of-salvation/

 

all views, not just Evangelical, are surveyed.

Hope this helps 

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18 hours ago, john1 said:

Not everyone who has faith does these things. Some are concerned about investments and are selfish, and only do things for themselves and their loved ones.

 


Matthew chapter 25 verses 31-46
When the Son of Man comes" in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. he will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. Then the King will say to those on his right, Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me. then the righteous will answer him, Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and got visit you? The King will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me. Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.They also will answer, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you? He will reply, I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me. Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.

 

 

But here we must ask have the goats ever trusted Jesus? 

Further Paul says that Christians living carnal lives will “Suffer loss” (of reward) “But not loss of Salvation” 1Cor 3:12-15.

In the clear passage about immature believers who are carnal we see them still going to heaven. 

 

In the passage that is unclear (whether the goats were ever Christians) we see they don’t go to heaven.

 

If Matthew is meaning to convey carnal Christians will go to hell then the Bible contradicts itself as Paul says they do not! 

 

This is why we can’t play fast and loose with claims based on what the Bible means to us.

 

If Biblical authors contradict each other then we can kiss the Bible goodbye as a source of divine revelation. Nobody here wants to go down that path. 

 

Edited by Uber Genius
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4 hours ago, Uber Genius said:

But here we must ask have the goats ever trusted Jesus? 

When you decide something the bible has to be taken as a whole, not what Matthew is trying to say, but what God is saying.

It doesn't matter how many pastors you listen to, the more you study the bible and apply it to yourself, and not someone else the more your going to learn.

 

 

Micah chapter 6 verse 8  He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.

 

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On 12/10/2018 at 6:34 PM, john1 said:

I didn't say it wasn't enough for everyone's sins, but we still need to show mercy, if we don't what is the difference between us and the people who have never read any of the bible, and do anything the want, Jesus still died for their sins to.

 

Jesus died for every sin ever committed.It will not do anybody any good unless they “ cash in” on what they have been given freely.In this present Age of Grace in which we live, we cash in by simply believing Paul’s Gospel , given to him by Jesus.If one is interested in Salvation , Check out 1cor15:1-4 and dont add any of your good works to it, lest you nullify it.When you stand before your Maker, He will ask you.....” what did you do with my Gospel?” Be prepared .

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3 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:
On 12/11/2018 at 7:34 AM, john1 said:

I didn't say it wasn't enough for everyone's sins, but we still need to show mercy, if we don't what is the difference between us and the people who have never read any of the bible, and do anything the want, Jesus still died for their sins to.

 

Jesus died for every sin ever committed.It will not do anybody any good unless they “ cash in” on what they have been given freely.In this present Age of Grace in which we live, we cash in by simply believing Paul’s Gospel , given to him by Jesus.If one is interested in Salvation , Check out 1cor15:1-4 and dont add any of your good works to it, lest you nullify it.When you stand before your Maker, He will ask you.....” what did you do with my Gospel?” Be prepared .

.

Yes, Christians are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the good works of the Law, ....... but once saved, should they keep bearing the good works of the Law/Word/commandments or the evil-works of the flesh(ROMANS.6:1-2).? Christians who keep on bearing the evil-works of the flesh willfully and unrepentantly for whatever reasons, will not inherit the kingdom of God(GALATIANS.5:19-21, MATTHEW.7:15-23). Know them by their fruits/works.

Check out the Scripture I have given and don't add any of your "once saved always saved" to it. When you stand before your Maker, He will ask you.... "What did you do with My Gospel.?" Be prepared. .......

.

MATTHEW.12:33-37 (NKJV) A Tree Known by Its Fruit

33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

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5 hours ago, discipler777 said:

.

Yes, Christians are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the good works of the Law, ....... but once saved, should they keep bearing the good works of the Law/Word/commandments or the evil-works of the flesh(ROMANS.6:1-2).? Christians who keep on bearing the evil-works of the flesh willfully and unrepentantly for whatever reasons, will not inherit the kingdom of God(GALATIANS.5:19-21, MATTHEW.7:15-23). Know them by their fruits/works.

Check out the Scripture I have given and don't add any of your "once saved always saved" to it. When you stand before your Maker, He will ask you.... "What did you do with My Gospel.?" Be prepared. .......

.

MATTHEW.12:33-37 (NKJV) A Tree Known by Its Fruit

33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

 

Yes, Christians are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the good works of the Law, ....... but once saved,

 

please notice the “ yes.....but”    The eternal refrain of the Legalists/ Judaizer......there are a few variations,  but it’s basically  “Why Yes! Of course Jesus saves! B U T........( insert your pet work here) It’s like Dr.Phil says, you make a statement and then add “ but” to say what you REALLY mean.Here is what I truly mean—— ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.......no “ buts” attached.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:
7 hours ago, discipler777 said:

.

Yes, Christians are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the good works of the Law, ....... but once saved, should they keep bearing the good works of the Law/Word/commandments or the evil-works of the flesh(ROMANS.6:1-2).? Christians who keep on bearing the evil-works of the flesh willfully and unrepentantly for whatever reasons, will not inherit the kingdom of God(GALATIANS.5:19-21, MATTHEW.7:15-23). Know them by their fruits/works.

Check out the Scripture I have given and don't add any of your "once saved always saved" to it. When you stand before your Maker, He will ask you.... "What did you do with My Gospel.?" Be prepared. .......

.

MATTHEW.12:33-37 (NKJV) A Tree Known by Its Fruit

33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.

 

Yes, Christians are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the good works of the Law, ....... but once saved,

 

please notice the “ yes.....but”    The eternal refrain of the Legalists/ Judaizer......there are a few variations,  but it’s basically  “Why Yes! Of course Jesus saves! B U T........( insert your pet work here) It’s like Dr.Phil says, you make a statement and then add “ but” to say what you REALLY mean.Here is what I truly mean—— ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.......no “ buts” attached.

.

JOHN.3:18-21 (NKJV) = 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 

19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

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6 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Yes, Christians are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the good works of the Law, ....... but once saved,

 

please notice the “ yes.....but”    The eternal refrain of the Legalists/ Judaizer......there are a few variations,  but it’s basically  “Why Yes! Of course Jesus saves! B U T........( insert your pet work here) It’s like Dr.Phil says, you make a statement and then add “ but” to say what you REALLY mean.Here is what I truly mean—— ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.......no “ buts” attached.

 

 

Great job analyzing the soteriological difference. This is a different view altogether than grace. It is a one-time grace followed by a lifetime of works. Galatians 3 is a knockdown argument against this view of grace/works salvation.

Paul describes those that hold this view, "Bewitched," "Foolish," and "Ignorant." 

Further the individuals defend this false view by taking the passages out of the context of the Gospel and transporting it into the style of an epistle as if Jesus were answering a question about how salvation works. How is it that Peter and John do not hold this view? We need to refuse to let people ignore the text that deals with this very question of maintaining our salvation by works (which is Gal. 3) and reply with passages that have nothing to do with that context. 

 

Edited by Uber Genius
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For a great resource on how we interpret scripture and avoid false logic and false claims such as saved by grace maintained by works see Wayne Grudem's article on how we get clarity out of the Bible.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/tgc-documents/journal-issues/34.3/themelios-34-3.pdf#page=8

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38 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:
5 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Yes, Christians are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the good works of the Law, ....... but once saved,should they keep bearing the good works of the Law/Word/commandments or the evil-works of the flesh(ROMANS.6:1-2).? Christians who keep on bearing the evil-works of the flesh willfully and unrepentantly for whatever reasons, will not inherit the kingdom of God(GALATIANS.5:19-21, MATTHEW.7:15-23). Know them by their fruits/works.

Check out the Scripture I have given and don't add any of your "once saved always saved" to it. When you stand before your Maker, He will ask you.... "What did you do with My Gospel.?" Be prepared.

 

please notice the “ yes.....but”    The eternal refrain of the Legalists/ Judaizer......there are a few variations,  but it’s basically  “Why Yes! Of course Jesus saves! B U T........( insert your pet work here) It’s like Dr.Phil says, you make a statement and then add “ but” to say what you REALLY mean.Here is what I truly mean—— ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.......no “ buts” attached.

 

 

Great job analyzing the soteriological difference. This is a different view altogether than grace. It is a one-time grace followed by a lifetime of works. Galatians 3 is a knockdown argument against this view of grace/works salvation.

Paul describes those that hold this view, "Bewitched," "Foolish," and "Ignorant." 

Further the individuals defend this false view by taking the passages out of the context of the Gospel and transporting it into the style of an epistle as if Jesus were answering a question about how salvation works. How is it that Peter and John do not hold this view? We need to refuse to let people ignore the text that deals with this very question of maintaining our salvation by works (which is Gal. 3) and reply with passages that have nothing to do with that context. 

Discipler 777 is using this fallacious method, call him on it. 

.

ROMANS.5 & 6 (NKJV) = 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

.

EPHESIANS.2:8-9 =  8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

.

HEBREWS.10:26-31 = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

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GALATIANS.5:19-21 = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

.

Edited by discipler777
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