THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PETER AND PAUL ON THE RESURRECTION

[Uber Genius]

1 minute ago, discipler777 said:

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ROMANS.5 & 6 (NKJV) = 5:18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

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EPHESIANS.2:8-9 =  8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

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HEBREWS.10:26-31 = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

1 Corinthians 3:12-15 ESV

"Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw— each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he HIMSELF WILL BE SAVED, but only as through fire."

 

Galatians 3:1-3

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. ² Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? ³ Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by^[a] the flesh?

 

Interpret the unclear in light of the clear. The passages above are about Christians who are not producing good works who nevertheless are saved from damnation and about those who try and live based on good works after they are saved. They need to be dealt with in order to make your view cogent. In fact not just cogent but Christian. This is an essential doctrine. Paul was infuriated by "Saved by grace, sanctified by works." This passage receives some of the strongest language anywhere in Paul's epistles. 

[john1]

11 hours ago, discipler777 said:

Christians are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ

James chapter 2 verse 18

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.       Love and mercy take care of everything.     Obadiah chapter 1 verse 15  "The day of the LORD is near for all nations. As you have done, it will be done to you; your deeds will return upon your own head.

[john1]

11 hours ago, discipler777 said:

Christians are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the good works of the Law,

I know we're not under the law, all we have to do is love not obey any law, except Galatians chapter 5 verse 14

The entire law is summed up in a single command love your neighbor as your self.

 

Matthew chapter 7 verse 12

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

[Uber Genius]

1 hour ago, john1 said:

But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds.

This is far from "Love and mercy take care of everything."

You just quoted a verse so misused by Christian over the ages to put men back under the law that Luther suggesting getting rid of the entire book of James.

This is not a passage about works justifying us before God. This is not a verse that is about "Saved by grace, perfected by works," it is about those faking Christianity. 

A more clear verse on this would be 1 Cor 3:12-15 quoted above. 

We do need to spend some time on this passage and the passage in Hebrews, but they are not in the majority of texts that deal with how one is saved and how one maintains their salvation. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Uber Genius

[discipler777]

7 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

Galatians 3:1-3

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. ² Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? ³ Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by^[a] the flesh?

 

Interpret the unclear in light of the clear. The passages above are about Christians who are not producing good works who nevertheless are saved from damnation and about those who try and live based on good works after they are saved. They need to be dealt with in order to make your view cogent. In fact not just cogent but Christian. This is an essential doctrine. Paul was infuriated by "Saved by grace, sanctified by works." This passage receives some of the strongest language anywhere in Paul's epistles. 

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GALATIANS.5:1-6 & 13-15 & 19-21 (NKJV) = Christian Liberty

5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. ...

13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! ...

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

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ACTS.15:23-29 = 23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.

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Like I said before, Yes, Christians are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ and not by the good works of the Law.

The events of ACTS.15 was the background for Paul's vehemence at GAL.3 & 5 against the requirement for new Gentile Christians(GC) to be circumcised, eat only kosher foods and keep other burdensome or non-essential laws of God in order to be accepted as Christians in the Church because the Law does not save. But Paul did not say that GC could use their liberty from the Law wrt salvation, to go and commit willful sins or works of the flesh unrepentantly. ACTS.15:29 confirms his statement at GAL.5:13, ie he agreed at the Jerusalem Council that new GC were still required to keep 4 easy or non-burdensome laws of Moses, ie avoid eating blood, foods/things offered to idols, strangled animal sacrifice and sexual immorality, in order for them to do well(= not be unwell), and not in order to be saved.

To continue to do well, the new GC should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws, especially moral laws, eg the Ten Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17. Otherwise, they would be cursed by God with a sad, non-peaceful, terror-filled and short life on earth for breaking His non-burdensome or essential laws, even though they may still be saved as long as they still have faith in Jesus Christ, ie not lose faith(JOB.2:9), not depart from the faith(1TIMOTHY.4:1), not deny the faith(MATTHEW.10:33), etc.

What was not covered by ACTS.15 is the further question, what if GC do go and commit willful sins or works of the flesh unrepentantly for whatever reasons.? This was covered by many Scripture - GALATIANS.5:19-21 above, MATTHEW.7:15-23, JOHN.14:15-24 & 15:1-9(= Christ not abiding in unrepentant sinners), REVELATION.22:12-17, 1CORINTHIANS,6:9-11, etc = they will likely not inherit the kingdom of God/heaven, on top of having to suffer for their unrepented willful sins or works of the flesh. God is not mocked.

[john1]

13 minutes ago, Uber Genius said:

You just quoted a verse so misused by Christian over the ages to put men back under the law that Luther suggesting getting rid of the entire book of James.

Didn't I say all you have to do is love your neighbor as yourself, that's the most a person can do anyway, no one can obey any other law.

 

Matthew chapter 21

³² For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

Luke chapter 3

⁷ John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? ⁸ Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. ⁹ The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.”

¹⁰ “What should we do then?” the crowd asked.

¹¹ John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.”

[Uber Genius]

30 minutes ago, john1 said:

Didn't I say all you have to do is love your neighbor as yourself, that's the most a person can do anyway, no one can obey any other law.

Yes. But my quote was of the James passage. That was the confusing part as it is a central text of those proclaiming we need to approach God with our good works. So if you read the context of my comment you will understand my confusion. I was just looking for clarification. 

[stillseeking]

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To continue to do well, the new GC should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws, especially moral laws, eg the Ten Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17

How can we be sure which ones are essential vs. non-essential? 

Jesus didn't seem to make that distinction in Matthew 23:1

Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: ² “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. ³ So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

And James seemed to think that the 4 initial prohibitions to the Gentiles were just a "starter kit" and that they'd pick up the rest of the Jewish rules by attending synagogue (Acts 15:20):

²⁰ Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. ²¹ For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.”

[discipler777]

40 minutes ago, stillseeking said:

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To continue to do well, the new GC should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws, especially moral laws, eg the Ten Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17

How can we be sure which ones are essential vs. non-essential? 

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GALATIANS.5:19-21 (NKJV) = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

[stillseeking]

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On 12/18/2018 at 9:50 PM, stillseeking said:

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To continue to do well, the new GC should gradually learn to keep the other non-burdensome or essential laws, especially moral laws, eg the Ten Commandments at EXODUS.20:1-17

How can we be sure which ones are essential vs. non-essential? 

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GALATIANS.5:19-21 (NKJV) = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Thank you for your reply.  However, I do not see how this answers the question.  It reiterates that certain acts are sin but does not preclude the possibility that breaking other parts of the law are not sin.  We don't have a surefire way to classify "moral" versus "ceremonial" laws, as I've heard many claim.  This distinction is man-made. 

For an example of the lack of clarity in these distinctions, consider the following:  Should a husband and wife have relations during the wife's period, (assuming both want to)?  Supposedly "clean and unclean" doesn't matter anymore, making it a ceremonial matter.  However, it could be argued that it's a moral matter as well:

• In Acts 15:28-29, the apostles clarify that the gentile believers don't have to follow all the Jewish laws, but they DO give them a small handful to keep:

28"It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond these essential requirements: 29You must abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals, and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.”

• The word translated above as "sexual immorality" is the Greek word "porneia", which was understood to refer to all of the Old Testament ("biblical", at that time,) sexual sins.  Having relations with a woman on her period certainly appears to be one of them: 

Leviticus 20:18 - ¹⁸ “‘If a man has sexual relations with a woman during her monthly period, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them are to be cut off from their people.

• In fact, it was "unclean" to even touch her:

Leviticus 15:19 -  ¹⁹ “‘When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.

So, the distinction is not clear.  I appreciate your reply but still have this question (of which laws are essential/non-essential, ceremonial vs moral, etc)! 

Edited December 23, 2018 by stillseeking
clarity