thomas t Posted July 4, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 46 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/05/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1980 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 Hi Nad, thank you for your wise words... very friendly. Ah your boyfriend. Thank you for your openness of sharing your problem. 5 hours ago, Nadjeschda said: I have the very very real problem to convince my boyfriend to re-investigate Christian believe too. My stance to this: we can't convince. I can't recall one Biblical story in which a Christian convinced someone else (correct me if missed scripture or some excellent interpretation of something). Either Jesus will do... or it won't work. Actually, what you can do is reply in the sense of 1 Peter 3:15 "always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect ". Since you're only one but evangelism needs more people involved... the moment you don't know a good reply... tell us (I mean the posters of this thread)? Most of us won't bite . Regards, Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadjeschda Posted July 4, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2019 Thanks. The problem is that I am a bit firy in wanting to defend god -and that even before having finished reading the Bible You are probably right: In the end it was propably my stron love (to my boyfriend) that made god decide to give me the gift of believe - if I judge by the order of events and the strength of emotions involved. So indeed believing is not attained by logic alone and those who love others only weakly will have difficulties to develope enough interest to overcome their prejudices about this religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas t Posted July 4, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 46 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/05/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1980 Author Share Posted July 4, 2019 47 minutes ago, Nadjeschda said: Thanks. The problem is that I am a bit firy in wanting to defend god -and that even before having finished reading the Bible You are probably right: In the end it was propably my stron love (to my boyfriend) that made god decide to give me the gift of believe - if I judge by the order of events and the strength of emotions involved. So indeed believing is not attained by logic alone and those who love others only weakly will have difficulties to develope enough interest to overcome their prejudices about this religion. mmh, that made me think. So you say he has remnants of belief? Since you said he could re-investigate faith. So let's dicuss first why he left faith. Most people leave for having been injured by believers (my impression). Don't have to tell me the details of your relationship to your boyfriend... but in case it is an injury, things get difficult. In my opinion, you can't be 100% sure that he opened up to you already (if he was injured). In my opinion, men - even today - have a big problem telling a women "you know, he kicked me out of the congregation.... and I was so so so so HURT" (just for an example). So if it's that way, you can't pressure him to believe again, you need to talk injuries first. When I converted, a friend of mine that never discussed faith with me before, opened up to me saying that he used to attend youth group at a Baptist church to where his family went... but then he was kicked out for lack of discipline. But this happened after I suffered some failures in my personal life and he since he knew it he felt somewhat superior and after having drunk tons of beer deep in the night he came up with that story when nobody else could hear us because the music was on. Only then. Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted July 4, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted July 4, 2019 On 12/10/2018 at 10:35 AM, thomas t said: Dear community, I hear so often from atheists, so-called agnostics, that they don't believe because they don't see any evidence that the Bible is true (here again). But do you think it is reasonable to refrain from converting until the Bible is proven as truth? Even if you think there is a 50% probabilty of the Bible being true it makes sense, in my view, to proclaim Jesus as Lord, already. ("Jesus, if you are there...") Just to be on the safe side when it comes to the question where we spend eternity. Regards, Thomas From my point of view it is my job to introduce that person to the Bible and tell them of my personal experiences.... if the Father wants that person he will have the Holy Spirit touch the person to help them believe..... if that person refuses it's his problem and I go on with my life and let that person deal with theirs. If the Bible could be proven totally true and one could prove God is who they say they are then everyone I know would be saved.... So to me if there is any chance that the Bible is what it is supposed to be only a fool would not take it seriously. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadjeschda Posted July 5, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2019 16 hours ago, thomas t said: mmh, that made me think. So you say he has remnants of belief? Since you said he could re-investigate faith. So let's dicuss first why he left faith. Most people leave for having been injured by believers (my impression). Don't have to tell me the details of your relationship to your boyfriend... but in case it is an injury, things get difficult. In my opinion, you can't be 100% sure that he opened up to you already (if he was injured). In my opinion, men - even today - have a big problem telling a women "you know, he kicked me out of the congregation.... and I was so so so so HURT" (just for an example). So if it's that way, you can't pressure him to believe again, you need to talk injuries first. When I converted, a friend of mine that never discussed faith with me before, opened up to me saying that he used to attend youth group at a Baptist church to where his family went... but then he was kicked out for lack of discipline. But this happened after I suffered some failures in my personal life and he since he knew it he felt somewhat superior and after having drunk tons of beer deep in the night he came up with that story when nobody else could hear us because the music was on. Only then. Thomas You could be right, he mentioned the problem of money making and religion quiet out of context. I will try to investigate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadjeschda Posted July 5, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2019 14 hours ago, other one said: From my point of view it is my job to introduce that person to the Bible and tell them of my personal experiences.... if the Father wants that person he will have the Holy Spirit touch the person to help them believe..... if that person refuses it's his problem and I go on with my life and let that person deal with theirs. If the Bible could be proven totally true and one could prove God is who they say they are then everyone I know would be saved.... So to me if there is any chance that the Bible is what it is supposed to be only a fool would not take it seriously. Yes it could be seen for example as a test if you are willing to react to a major warning. If you are not that already tells something about your character (vain about your ability to reason, risky) that would be true even if there would be no god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas t Posted July 5, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 46 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/05/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1980 Author Share Posted July 5, 2019 Hi Nad again, thanks for being open. As I don't believe we have an evil heart by default (see Abdicate's post)... some words on this: 7 hours ago, Nadjeschda said: money making these German free churches cost large amounts of money. I would estimate 50 to 75€ per person every month. And the churches want to pay their bills so they let their people know. As they don't expect anyone to pay anything who truely doesn't have money, maybe your boyfriend does have a few. My suggestion: if he doesn't want to pay anything... don't force him to join your church. The Holy Spirit leads to freedom, see Luke 4:18. Is that a solution? Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadjeschda Posted July 5, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 107 Content Per Day: 0.06 Reputation: 41 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) 28 minutes ago, thomas t said: Hi Nad again, thanks for being open. As I don't believe we have an evil heart by default (see Abdicate's post)... some words on this: these German free churches cost large amounts of money. I would estimate 50 to 75€ per person every month. And the churches want to pay their bills so they let their people know. As they don't expect anyone to pay anything who truely doesn't have money, maybe your boyfriend does have a few. My suggestion: if he doesn't want to pay anything... don't force him to join your church. The Holy Spirit leads to freedom, see Luke 4:18. Is that a solution? Thomas It’s not that he does not want to pay anything, he has grown up poor and he disliked all the gold in the churches. I try now to remind him that the early Christians had no churches and that Jesus staid poor Edited July 5, 2019 by Nadjeschda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas t Posted July 6, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 46 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 944 Content Per Day: 0.22 Reputation: 170 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/05/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/20/1980 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 16 hours ago, Nadjeschda said: I try now to remind him that the early Christians had no churches and that Jesus staid poor Ah I get your point. Ok, there are rich Christians in Germany. Look at the cars in front of the location. Sometimes it's a Porsche, a Mercedes and so on. Actually, when I was 22 I shared a deep mistrust in the richness of some Christians, too. So I went to a congregation where the people were most often rather poor and really active. This is where I converted to Christ (that was in France). There are people in the Bible that were followers of Christ AND rich at the same time. The rich man that provided the grave for Jesus, for instance. Or Abraham. Abraham was rich, too. Thomas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtletwo Posted July 6, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 35 Topic Count: 1,192 Topics Per Day: 0.19 Content Count: 7,264 Content Per Day: 1.19 Reputation: 15,710 Days Won: 194 Joined: 07/15/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted July 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, Tampered With said: Truth is truth wheather it is believed or not. No one can lead another to faith. Only an open heart and mind seaking truth can find it. @Tampered With Thanks for this good point and the great scriptures. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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