"Unless You Prove Bible Right I Stay Non-Believer"?

[simplejeff]

4 hours ago, thomas t said:

Hi Jeff,

then there has been another lie about unbelievers here on Worthy.

Every lie makes it more difficult to witness.

However, George has explained that the No. 1 purpose of this board is... reaching out to non-believing people. That's a great idea! Let's stay with the truth.

Regards,

Thomas

No,   not another lie.   The Truth which you choose to deny.   (never did I see the truth posted by you so far in your posts)....   so every post makes it impossible to witness,  not more difficult.    The truth will not be compromised.

I don't know that George said what you posted here.    In the past,  the owner/admin/mods said that the unbelievers/ pagans/ ungodly heathen  can post their heresies and lies,   and that they can continue to ,  and that this was allowed on purpose so that Christians can learn to deal with that ....   if that has changed I don't know,  but the dis-information in your posts is easy to see sometimes,  other times it is more hidden,  but still not truth.   The method to deal with it is simply to ignore it mostly,   then if Yahuweh Permits,  to post something so others have a "RED FLAG" "BRIDGE OUT!"  type of notice so the readers can realize the posts are in error and not in line with God's Word nor with God's Plan nor with God's Purpose in Salvation in Christ Jesus today.

[George]

Simply said, we have isolated non-believers to a different section of the forums ... due to the fact that many believers DO NOT HAVE A HEART to truly reach them.  Also, they do not have the patience or wherewithal to have deeper discussions without becoming frustrated.  So they have a place where they can communicate with seasoned believers who have such a heart. 

[Dennis1209]

On 12/10/2018 at 10:35 AM, thomas t said:

Dear community,

I hear so often from atheists, so-called agnostics, that they don't believe because they don't see any evidence that the Bible is true (here again).

But do you think it is reasonable to refrain from converting until the Bible is proven as truth?

Even if you think there is a 50% probabilty of the Bible being true it makes sense, in my view, to proclaim Jesus as Lord, already. ("Jesus, if you are there...")

Just to be on the safe side when it comes to the question where we spend eternity.

Regards, Thomas

We are given all the evidence required to be judged by in one single verse that applies to all generations throughout time; no one has an excuse:

Romans 1:20 (KJV) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[simplejeff]

9 minutes ago, Dennis1209 said:

We are given all the evidence required to be judged by in one single verse that applies to all generations throughout time; no one has an excuse:

Romans 1:20 (KJV) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

Likewise,  as God's Word has always said,   everyone is already consigned under sin - dead in trespasses and sin.

They (no one) has to (nor should) "wait" to find out if their life is "good enough" to pass,  because already it is not.

There is no one's life "good enough" to pass from death into eternal life,  other than through Jesus, The Only Way.

And Jesus Himself Says that He will not in any wise refuse/cast out/ anyone who comes to Him.   (remember Jesus HEALED (/SAVED)  EVERYONE who came to Him ;   Jesus is still the same today..... )  (so COME TO HIM! )

[appy]

On 7/8/2019 at 7:12 AM, thomas t said:

yes, I've heard people saying so. For some, it's hard to listen to, but that's what you get.

Yeah, God has a right to ask why nobody is giving thanks to him for the creation, in my opinion.

My point was, that you couldn't back up your phrase that atheists purportedly don't want to change. That doesn't mean that I despise everything you've said. Just to the contrary!

I'm not saying that atheists do want to change, either.

I'm just saying you didn't back anything up in this regard. Even the verses in your last post didn't say anything about atheists purportedly not wanting to change. The verse saying something about suppressing the truth, doesn't mean people don't want to change. When I drop a glass a day for being clumsy... that doesn't mean I don't want to change.

This one, for example.. 

On 7/7/2019 at 10:38 PM, appy said:

Unbelievers of all walks of life; think they are basically good

you didn't back this up either. No scripture provided to back this up. Just presumption.

Don't take it personal, please, just a point on the subject level,

Thomas

I'm sure, we've all heard the following or similar statements like them. “I've never been in trouble with the law, so I'm a good person; I do not deserve hell” “Only people who commit grievous crimes deserve hell” “I do a lot of charity work and other good deeds, and my good deeds outweigh anything bad I've done.

It is statements like the above and there are no shortage of statements like them or similar to them; that lend credence to people believing they, themselves are basically good, even though God's written word tell us that there is none that is righteous. The whole chapter of Romans 1 gives us a real picture of our spiritual state and our dire need of coming to repentance & salvation.  Now lets move over to the not wanting to change part. The following came from someone that although has heard the gospel, has talked about it at length for a long, long, long time and says. . .

“I just can't believe in a God who will judge people, then send them to hell”. “why do Christians spread the Gospel? I think we can make a case that the act of spreading that message is, in fact, an unethical thing to do. “

Ever hear the statement that Christians can't have any fun?We know that isn't true. Because there is a lot of activities we can enjoy that don't cause us to sin in the process. Going to wild parties or getting very drunk is only two examples of sinful activities that unbelievers really like to do. A person that comes to the point that he or she excepts the truth that there is a living God. Must also come to the truth of his/her spiritual condition, followed by the truth that he or she must also experience repentance (change one's mind and attitude towards sin). We can't keep any sins.

The thing is Thomas, as long as a person comes up with excuse after excuse after excuse for why they can't or don' t want to believe is in fact, suppressing the truth. There are people that want what the Christian has, without having to give up the sins in their life. Even a person that is honestly seeking must also count the cost. But once they surrender their sins to Christ on the cross they are set free. Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

So in summery of this post, the issue of them not seeing that the bible is true on its own merits or that there isn't sufficient evidence isn't based on lack of evidence but that the problem is a “heart problem” The part that unbelievers struggle with is the repentance part and trusting God with their lives. I don't discount that there are some that are truly seeking but it is indeed clear that there are those that don't want God interfering in their lives.

Romans 1 : 18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness,

Lets paraphrase the verse. To suppress means to curb, inhibit, or even stop

Romans 1:18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who curb, inhibit, or even stop the truth By their wickedness.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Romans 2:8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

Romans 2:15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness,

 

 

[thomas t]

Hi George,

15 hours ago, George said:

Simply said, we have isolated non-believers to a different section of the forums ... due to the fact that many believers DO NOT HAVE A HEART to truly reach them.

thank you for pointing that out. That looks convincing.

 

Hi Jeff,

you asked me a question:

Quote

 

Suppose for a moment, or longer if you wish, that an unbeliever thought they are not basically good.

What then ?   < shrugs >  So what ?

 

and I answered you that obviously, since a poster told otherwise in some post above, there would have been a lie spread on Worthy.

15 hours ago, simplejeff said:

The Truth which you choose to deny.   (never did I see the truth posted by you so far in your posts).... 

[...]

the dis-information in your posts is easy to see sometimes other times it is more hidden,

here you're referring to the entirety of my postings, may I ask you to stop this? Of course I've posted some truth here so far. I didn't spread any dis-information, believe me.

Referring to the entirety of what other people say is getting personal.

and here...

15 hours ago, simplejeff said:

the unbelievers/ pagans/ ungodly heathen  can post their heresies and lies,

George never said this, btw.

This being said...

this quote sounds as if you are making a gerenic statement on unbelievers in general. It sounds derogatory to me. Even the Bible acknowledges that Non-Christians know to speak the truth, see Titus 1:12 for example.

---

Hi Appy,

so now I get your point.

 

Thomas

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by thomas t
ommitted 2 words

[imnotJohnSmith]

HI thomas, and others,

When it comes to be "reasonable", I think we need to define what is being reasonable,

"Being reasonable" is probably  at its peak in modern law enforcement systems, where everything should be proved by evidences that  can be "logically" and materially quantified and are "indisputable".

 

But converting to Christianity should always be considered a miraculous event, because as Jesus said, he chose us.

And we can't prove Jesus existed and that he was whom he declared himself to be, the Son of God,  in the ways the modern law enforcement systems require.

 

 

So I think we should try to be reasonable as much as we can, when preaching to others, but never worry about not being reasonable enough, because how much or what kind of being reasonable is enough or reasonable?

There is no answers, ultimately speaking.

If the ultimate reason is something on which everyone in this world would agree, then there is no ultimate reason.

Because, for now, nothing in this world is agreed by everyone.

So that's why it's called the Christian faith, not the Christian reason.

Hope I am making myself clear.

Thanks.

[thomas t]

Thanks John ,

19 hours ago, imnotJohnSmith said:

But converting to Christianity should always be considered a miraculous event, because as Jesus said, he chose us.

 

My opinion:

yes - Jesus chose us according to John 15:19 (my interpretation).

yes - once you get chosen, Bible tells quite miraculous things happen: You get a new heart (Eze 26:36), for instance, thus your personality changes.

But in my opinion, Jesus only choses people who want to be chosen - he's quite a democrat in my view. Gentleman. He won't choose anybody who resists, I think. He often speaks about the invitation (Luke 14:16-24) into the kingdom of God. And invited people still need to choose how to react to the invitation. Some don't show up.

So there needs to be a decision on our part.

And this decision can be reasonable. True - some decide in a non-reasonable way. But a decision for Christianity can be very reasonable, in my opinion.

Thomas

 

 

Edited July 12, 2019 by thomas t
spelling

[thomas t]

On 7/9/2019 at 11:02 PM, simplejeff said:

Yahuweh:  Genesis is truth.

Yahushua to unbeliever: (on judgment day) :  "bye bye"

Jeff,

before you say they end up in hell, please note; as George has announced a few posts above, they can't reply here in the thread.

I think it is particularly mean to speak about them in this manner knowing they can't say anything (in the thread).

Regards,

Thomas

 

[Tzephanyahu]

On 7/12/2019 at 2:55 PM, thomas t said:

Jeff,

before you say they end up in hell, please note; as George has announced a few posts above, they can't reply here in the thread.

I think it is particularly mean to speak about them in this manner knowing they can't say anything (in the thread).

Amen!  

I'm always amazed to see how some speak of non-believers with such a careless disregard, mockery or even if it's just lightly.  It's like some have become so proud in their salvation.  What a game they are playing with their fate. 

I know you didn't say this Thomas (but I don't know how to quote from a previous page), but here's a prime example.

On 7/12/2019 at 2:55 PM, thomas t said:

Yahushua to unbeliever: (on judgment day) :  "bye bye"

What a bitter sentiment.  If I was still a non-believer and heard this kind of attitude from a Christian, I'd walk in the opposite direction!  Instead, thankfully I felt warmth, acceptance and peace from the Christians I met back then.

Edited July 14, 2019 by Tzephanyahu