Deadworm Posted August 21, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/13/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 21, 2022 Jesus' alleged face cloth (soudarion--John 20:6-7) was brought from a monastery in Jerusalem in 614 AD to Alexandria and eventually to Oviedo Spain where it is currently housed and revered. It has the same blood type (AB) and the same blood spatter arrangement as the Shroud facial area! So it originally covered the same crucified corpse as the Shroud. It is not known how the soudarion and the Shroud got separated. The dating of both the Shroud and the Soudarion is problematic,but MIGHt be traceable to Jesus' day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted August 22, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 772 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,933 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2022 On 12/11/2018 at 6:45 PM, other one said: If it were proved to be true, how many would worship the thing instead of building the spiritual relationship we are supposed to through the Holy Spirit. Even if it was true it would not be a good thing in the long run for many. If thats true christians people all over the world will make a pilgrimage and surround it like the Arab do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 22, 2022 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,061 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,803 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2022 7 hours ago, R. Hartono said: If thats true christians people all over the world will make a pilgrimage and surround it like the Arab do. I could see that happening. And mis the real truth about it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biblican Posted August 22, 2022 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.42 Reputation: 143 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2022 On 12/10/2018 at 1:22 PM, ask21771 said: The shroud of turin is a long linen cloth bearing a mysterious image of a man who many claim is Jesus Christ, although radio carbon dating puts the shrouds origins in the middle ages multiple lines of evidence (blood stains, dirt etc.) seem to support it being the burial cloth of Jesus. However another factor to consider is this there is no mention of a linen cloth with the image of Jesus ANYWHERE in the bible, so the question I have is, if the shroud of turin is the burial cloth of Christ why would such a miracle be left out of the bible Here is a link to an article that updates the dating of the cloth to the time of Jesus. The previous dates were in error because the sample they took was from a section of the cloth that had been added in the middle ages to repair some damage. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/03/30/shroud-turin-display/2038295/ The miracle of the resurrection wasn't left out of the Bible and that's the most important point. I believe that God designed the cloth to be an evidence for a later time for this age of skeptics and did not need to be mentioned in the Bible. Many things that Jesus did were also not included in the gospel record and the shroud is obviously one of those missing details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueFollowerOfChrist Posted August 22, 2022 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 9 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,027 Content Per Day: 1.61 Reputation: 583 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/26/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2022 On 8/18/2022 at 5:17 PM, Bluedragon said: Turin would never be mentioned. It didn't exist. Curious thought about the shroud and what may make it authentic. In the middle ages, when Christian art erupted. The crucifix has the nails through the hands. However, the shroud has the nails through the wrists. Exactly where the nails would have driven in the Roman form of nailing the person to the cross. That evidence exists by way of tombs that have been opened and the fossilized remains of those that were crucified .....have the nails driven between the bones in the wrists. Not all victims of crucifixion were simply thrown in the trash heap. Governors allowed families to receive the crucified. In one case, the nail struck a knot in the beam and bent. The nail was hacked out and went to the grave with the man crucified. Remember, even Mel Gibson got it wrong in his movie .... The image of the shroud has the scourge marks visible. Would an artist of the period include the marks? front and back? Carbon dating of the shroud depended on one fiber that was removed. Considering the amount of damage to the shroud due to the church fire, is the dating accurate? The shroud would be soaked with smoke, and remember, the shroud itself was scorched ... My questions .... who saved the shroud after Jesus left the tomb? Why isn't that person mentioned anywhere? Does that invalidate the existence of the artifact? Constantine's wife supposedly finding the cross ....does that actually exist several years and after destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD? The lance .....I doubt a soldier would surrender his lance. It was just another crucifixion to him. Maybe the soldiers all recognized the Christ in John Wayne fashion ...It's a wonder the crown of thorns was not found sitting on a fence post. I guess the robe would have been taken by the Roman soldier casting the lucky dice. Who would have thought to save all these things? Who would have thought to get them out of Jerusalem before the fall? Hoping they exist ..but doubtful I think the shroud was probably kept by Mary or one of the Apostles. Just an opinion though. Maybe Joseph who gave Jesus the tomb to begin with. I believe the shroud has already been proven 100% legitimate. The technology to make a forgery didn't exist at any time before now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedragon Posted August 22, 2022 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 26 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 289 Content Per Day: 0.39 Reputation: 131 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2022 Status: Offline Share Posted August 22, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TrueFollowerOfChrist said: I think the shroud was probably kept by Mary or one of the Apostles. Just an opinion though. Maybe Joseph who gave Jesus the tomb to begin with. I believe the shroud has already been proven 100% legitimate. The technology to make a forgery didn't exist at any time before now. Whoever may have saved the shroud, became astute enought ot get it out of Jerusalem by 66AD when most of the Christians left the city. The persecution by Jews and Romans combined were a little too much. They certainly had the shroud out by the fall in 70AD when Rome destroyed the city. Because whatever Jew was left, was marched to Rome as slaves. Everyone but Josephus that is. Edited August 22, 2022 by Bluedragon spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnR7 Posted September 7, 2022 Group: Royal Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 49 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,907 Content Per Day: 1.30 Reputation: 612 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/03/2018 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/06/1952 Share Posted September 7, 2022 On 12/10/2018 at 1:22 PM, ask21771 said: there is no mention of a linen cloth with the image of Jesus ANYWHERE in the bible, John 20:6 Simon Peter arrived just after him. He entered the tomb and saw the linen cloths lying there. 7The cloth that had been around Jesus’ head was rolled up, lying separate from the linen cloths. There were two cloths, and we still have both of them today. They found them folded in the tomb where they had placed Jesus. It does not matter if people believe the cloth is real or a work of art. Either way, the cloth is a testimony to the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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