I am the vine, ye are the branches:

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

The commandment for all people in this “ Age of Grace” is the order to believe Paul’s Gospel thAt was given to Him by Jesus......

Commandment keeping for  Salvation never existed in the OT and it sure doesn’t apply to those of us saved by Grace plus nothing.Commandments were given to show we can’t keep them—- they merely point the way for us to see that we need a Savior. Paul said in Galations that all the laws are summed up by this—- love your neighbor as yourself.Another commandment Nobody obeys.We need Grace, and TONs of it.

[discipler777]

1 hour ago, UnprofitableServantJames said:

I find it interesting that the idea that what Jesus said about abiding in the vine can be considered 'heresy' if we take it literally by obeying what Jesus said to do in order to stay on the vine. It sounds like the idea would be that we 'shouldn't' obey Jesus because that would be considered heresy by Luther and other reformations. Does that sound accurate? The question that comes to my mind is, who should we listen to? Jesus or Luther? Jesus or other reformations? While I'm at it, Jesus or Paul?

What does Jesus say in John 5:38-40?

Food for thought.

In peace

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To add to your good post, the New Testament gospels and epistles about the earthly life of Jesus Christ and His salvation message of good news were written by the Apostles or their "secretaries", ie Matthew, John, Mark(= Peter's secretary) and Luke(= Paul's secretary).

Personally, in terms of being God-inspired, I put the writings of John as first, then Peter, Matthew and Paul in that order. That was why the Lord Jesus Christ gave His final REVELATION to Apostle John and not the others.

James's epistle is doubtful, in terms of being God-inspired, ie more like works-of-the-Law-inspired. James the Just was the leader of the Judaizers, ie early Jewish Christians who initially required new Gentile Christians converted by Paul to be circumcised and keep all of Moses Law.(GALATIANS.2:9-14) .......

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2PETER.1:16-21 (NKJV) = The Trustworthy Prophetic Word

16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

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JOHN.16:12-15 = 12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you.

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Edited December 17, 2018 by discipler777

[UnprofitableServantJames]

9 minutes ago, discipler777 said:

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To add to your good post, the New Testament gospels and epistles about the earthly life of Jesus Christ and His salvation message of good news were written by the Apostles or their "secretaries", ie Matthew, John, Mark(= Peter's secretary) and Luke(= Paul's secretary).

Personally, in terms of being God-inspired, I put the writings of John as first, then Peter, Matthew and Paul in that order. That was why the Lord Jesus Christ gave His final REVELATION to Apostle John and not the others.

James's epistle is doubtful, in terms of being God-inspired, ie more like works-of-the-Law-inspired. James the Just was the leader of the Judaizers, ie early Jewish Christians who initially required new Gentile Christians converted by Paul to be circumcised and keep all of Moses Law.(GALATIANS.2:9-14) .......

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2PETER.1:16-21 (NKJV) = The Trustworthy Prophetic Word

16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty. 17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.

19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; 20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, 21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

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Thanks for elaborating a bit on my post. I think James' epistle is still worth a read, particularly, if we put it in the context of obeying Jesus. I can see the issue if people take that and turn it to the OT and it's laws (like the people that thought we should still circumcise people, something Jesus never taught himself) ; but if we keep it focused on Jesus, then that book becomes a very powerful tool with our walk with Christ. Give it a go, and tell me what you think. ?

I will be keen to hear your response.

Peace

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

Every single Word in the Bible is God-Breathed.Every Book is valuable for “ doctrine, reproof,for instruction in righteousness” I believe the Epistyles of Paul are the best to go to for our Doctrine in this Age of Grace.Not too long ago I saw a list of teachings that were exclusive to Paul—- of course I can’t find it when I need it.There May be some errors here, so forgive me, but you will get the gist.Paul was the only one who wrote about the Rapture. Only he mentioned the Church Age.Only he mentioned the Body of Christ. He taught justification by faith alone.The Gospel Of Grace he preached was given to him personally by Christ Himself and it is the lone Gospel that we will be judged by.He was the only one who taught about church discipline and on the proper relationship between husband and wife.He taught that we are no longer under any tithing laws.Paul was nothing but a wicked , sinful  , proud Pharisee saved only by the Grace of God, yet God  let him be the “ official” messenger to the Gentiles. After His Ascension, Jesus used Paul as both a mouthpiece and secretary.He teaches more than Peter, James and John combined.Of course, the teachings of Jesus in His Earthly  Ministry always come in first, but Paul has a case to be a distant but very strong second.Jesus DID it ALL.......Paul did a good job of explaining its meaning.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Blood Bought 1953

[discipler777]

2 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

I believe the Epistyles of Paul are the best to go to for our Doctrine in this Age of Grace.

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1CORINTHIANS.15:3-11 (NKJV) = 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.

9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

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Remember, Scripture was also given by God for correction.(2TIMOTHY.3:16) Even Paul might have needed correction himself. Also, for other Christians. Didn't Paul correct Peter at GALATIANS.2:9-17.? = wash one another's feet.(JOHN.13:14)

Paul stated he was the least of the apostles.

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I think it was erroneous for Paul to lump James and the disciples(= not the 11 Apostles) as apostles also. James was not an apostle Personally chosen by Jesus Christ.

Personally and spiritually, I see Paul as also Personally chosen by Jesus Christ(ACTS.9:15-16) to replace Judas Iscariot as the 12th Apostle to the Gentiles, ie not Matthias who was ownself-chosen by the 109 disciples and 11 Apostles to replace Judas(ACTS.1:15) = Matthias was not chosen by Jesus Christ as the 12th Apostle. After ACTS.1, there was no more mention of Matthias, the "12th Apostle".

Seems, Paul lumped James and the disciples as apostles, likely in order to justify his own apostleship outside of the already chosen Twelve Apostles = as the 13th or 14th or etc-th Apostle. In effect, Paul had created more than 12 Apostles which was in error or in self-justification. This was not according to the Word of God/Jesus .......

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Revelation 21:14 = Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

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P S - Paul did not see the resurrected Jesus Christ(= God-in-the-flesh) but the ascended Christ or God, similar to what happened to Moses at EXODUS.3:14.

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Edited December 17, 2018 by discipler777

[Justin Adams]

34 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

ALL SCRIPTURE. ALL. The Apostles Paula and James did not add their own musings to the scriptures.

Ahh. The caveat. All scripture that THEY had available... The Tanach, other writing uncovered at Qumran and many more that we 'moderns' sneer at. Take a peek at the Eastern Canon that Rome could not infiltrate. Are you getting the picture??

Expect other texts to be recovered to prove a point that God put in motion years ago... ask yourselves, why were the Qumran discoveries kept secret for forty years? We have much to learn.

[Justin Adams]

3 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

Even if that were true, that does not alter this statement by me.

Agreed. But you will see that these guys quoted heavily from books that are verboten. Modern linguists can see that the NT re-quoted from books and scrolls that we have and do not have yet, if it this is made known, most modern pulpit seminarians will have a fit.

[discipler777]

2 hours ago, maryjayne said:

ALL SCRIPTURE. ALL. The Apostles Paul and James did not add their own musings to the scriptures.

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Historically, when Paul referred to the Scripture at 2TIMOTHY.3:16, I think he was very likely referring to the Old Testament Scripture because there was as yet no New Testament Scripture during the lifetime of Paul or Peter or John. IOW, the New Testament Scripture or canon was only established after the passing of the 12 Apostles, eg the Gospel of Mary and the Gospel of Peter were excluded from the NT canon by the early church fathers as unscriptural.

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Today, in better hindsight, we have both the OT and NT Scripture. We need to differentiate or discriminate between "Thus says the Lord ......." or "Jesus said ......." and what Paul said in his letters to the Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, etc. They carry different weight in terms of being inspired by the Holy Spirit of God, ie more weight in the former as they were the direct Word of God as recorded/written by the prophets/apostles.

Paul himself stated that some of his sayings in his letters were not commandments from God but his own personal judgment/opinion. Also, Paul was not a 1st-party eye witness to the life and sayings of Jesus Christ = he only had 2nd-hand knowledge of them = Paul might have been misinformed or he misunderstood a few things. But as a Pharisee, Paul was an expert in the Law or OT Scripture; and as a Roman citizen, he was well-versed with the Gentile lifestyle = the perfect Apostle to the Gentiles. In this mission to the Gentiles, he was well-spoken, eg the liberty from the Law.

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Edited December 17, 2018 by discipler777

[George]

5 hours ago, discipler777 said:

Personally, in terms of being God-inspired, I put the writings of John as first, then Peter, Matthew and Paul in that order. That was why the Lord Jesus Christ gave His final REVELATION to Apostle John and not the others.

James's epistle is doubtful, in terms of being God-inspired, ie more like works-of-the-Law-inspired. James the Just was the leader of the Judaizers, ie early Jewish Christians who initially required new Gentile Christians converted by Paul to be circumcised and keep all of Moses Law.(GALATIANS.2:9-14) .......

If it's God inspired -- it's God inspired ... how is there a difference ... is one book more "spirit filled" than another?  This is what you seem to be saying .. am I mistaken in what I'm reading here?  

[George]

6 hours ago, UnprofitableServantJames said:

Firstly, was Paul perfect in all that He said and did?

Was any of the authors of the Bible perfect?  However it's canonized and thus part of God's recorded message to us.  There are books that Paul wrote that didn't make it ... the epistle of the Laodiceans for example.  But when you start down this slippery slope ... you start doubting the truth of God's word and you start picking and choosing what you want to believe ... and what not to believe.  Do you see the error this could lead?