Jump to content
IGNORED

Worthy Book Club


George

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  34
  • Topic Count:  1,989
  • Topics Per Day:  0.49
  • Content Count:  48,687
  • Content Per Day:  11.89
  • Reputation:   30,342
  • Days Won:  226
  • Joined:  01/11/2013
  • Status:  Offline

41 minutes ago, angels4u said:

How can the Holy Spirit and demons live together in the same house?

Born again Christians are forgiven from their sins and Jesus lives inside of them and there is no room for the enemy, they can't live both together in the same house ( your body.

Demons can oppress you but not possess you.

1 Peter 5:8 

8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

Ephesians 2:2 

2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—

James 4:7

7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you

2 Cor 6:10–18 

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the

 

You are right angels. A born again Christian can not be indwelt by a demon. Anyone who teaches that is a false teacher. 

  • Thumbs Up 2
  • This is Worthy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  56
  • Topic Count:  1,664
  • Topics Per Day:  0.20
  • Content Count:  19,763
  • Content Per Day:  2.39
  • Reputation:   12,160
  • Days Won:  28
  • Joined:  08/22/2001
  • Status:  Offline

10 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

You are right angels. A born again Christian can not be indwelt by a demon. Anyone who teaches that is a false teacher. 

Many people are still learning  what he Bible has to say about this, it's a topic not very many people like to talk about , but so very important as many are getting deceived :(

  • This is Worthy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  53
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,371
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,489
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/05/2016
  • Status:  Offline

13 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

You are right angels. A born again Christian can not be indwelt by a demon. Anyone who teaches that is a false teacher. 

So all the boils that "Job" had when he was afflicted by satan, was a result of what.  It is a gray line to say indwelt by a demon and afflicted.  What signs you look for in a person indwelt by a demon.  This is a topic that only people that has gone through the fiery trials and troubles can put pen to paper about, and yet most do not as to the stigma that they feel would ultimately be attached to them and the rejection and labels.  

God allowed "Job" to be afflicted by these terrible things and Job was asking what did he do to get those things.  Here, I am saying today, that these wicked things and afflictions can be allowed by God on a believer and it could be as a test of your faith or a battle that only the Lord knows the total plan for.   A believer can never really know how and when God may use him for his purpose in a particular situation. It's now then the believer to stand firm and even share in the suffering of Christ as Peter says we are to.   The Lord knows whom he wants to do certain battles and chooses his servants as he wills, who are we to question that.

That said, I do believe that a believer can have tremendous trials and troubles by the arch enemy, but the Lords says he would deliver him from all if he is FAITHFUL.   

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  56
  • Topic Count:  1,664
  • Topics Per Day:  0.20
  • Content Count:  19,763
  • Content Per Day:  2.39
  • Reputation:   12,160
  • Days Won:  28
  • Joined:  08/22/2001
  • Status:  Offline

26 minutes ago, warrior12 said:

So all the boils that "Job" had when he was afflicted by satan, was a result of what.  It is a gray line to say indwelt by a demon and afflicted.  What signs you look for in a person indwelt by a demon.  This is a topic that only people that has gone through the fiery trials and troubles can put pen to paper about, and yet most do not as to the stigma that they feel would ultimately be attached to them and the rejection and labels.  

God allowed "Job" to be afflicted by these terrible things and Job was asking what did he do to get those things.  Here, I am saying today, that these wicked things and afflictions can be allowed by God on a believer and it could be as a test of your faith or a battle that only the Lord knows the total plan for.   A believer can never really know how and when God may use him for his purpose in a particular situation. It's now then the believer to stand firm and even share in the suffering of Christ as Peter says we are to.   The Lord knows whom he wants to do certain battles and chooses his servants as he wills, who are we to question that.

That said, I do believe that a believer can have tremendous trials and troubles by the arch enemy, but the Lords says he would deliver him from all if he is FAITHFUL.   

Quote

t is a gray line to say indwelt by a demon and afflicted.

I believe Job was oppressed, I don't think this line was gray :)

 

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

 Job 1:2

And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.

 Job 1:3

His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.

 Job 1:4

 

And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.

 Job 1:5

And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

 Job 1:6

 

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

 Job 1:7

And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 Job 1:8

 

And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

 Job 1:9

 

Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

 Job 1:10

Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

 Job 1:11

But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

 Job 1:12

 

And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

 Job 1:13

 

And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

 Job 1:14

And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them:

 Job 1:15

And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 Job 1:16

 

While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 Job 1:17

 

While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 Job 1:18

 

While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house:

 Job 1:19

And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.

 Job 1:20

 

Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,

 Job 1:21

And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

 Job 1:22

 

In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

  • Praise God! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  53
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,371
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,489
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/05/2016
  • Status:  Offline

14 minutes ago, angels4u said:

I believe Job was oppressed, I don't think this line was gray :)

Fair.  So let me ask. Do you think those type of oppression exist today ?.  If the church sees a member displaying these types of symptoms, what would be the prognosis by the members.  There may be thousands and thousands of believers in real struggles and battles that is not outwardly visible and are not willing to share there testimony for fear of being ostracized .   This is a subject that only those who have been through and goes through the battles can relate to and it maybe for their own  testing or trials .   Most believers tend to cling to the tangible world as it is the one they are familiar with.  It does not mean that God allows trials that are unknown to others that may be very difficult to explain and relay.  

I can say for sure, Neil Anderson knows what he is talking about and he writes about it well. For those who doubt or disbelieve, it is not uncommon as the saying goes, "who in the kitchen feels the heat". We are talking about the spiritual world, those who does not have the experience there cannot understand or relate to it .  I think, Neil has counseled enough people to get a good grasp about what is at work, though I suspect if he has not gone through the difficulties himself, he too would lack words to describe what goes on there.   Maybe the Lord has selected who he has for those task as we have not heard of many other instances of JOB type situations.  But to conclude, indwelt or afflicted, how you choose to interpret that is a matter of your imagination.  Could affliction be inward too, and how would you know. 

  • This is Worthy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Servant
  • Followers:  21
  • Topic Count:  237
  • Topics Per Day:  0.11
  • Content Count:  6,774
  • Content Per Day:  3.24
  • Reputation:   4,725
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  07/05/2018
  • Status:  Online
  • Birthday:  09/23/1954

1 hour ago, Abby-Joy said:

It's not about demons housed on the inside, but open doors that we can leave wide open by either actions we committed or that were committed against us, creating a brokenness ... there's no doubt that many Christians have things that they struggle to gain victory over.

Paul being a prime example of the dynamic involved as you rightly point out, Abby-Joy :emot-dance:

2Co 12:7-10
(7)  And by reason of the exceeding greatness of the revelations––wherefore, that I should not be exalted overmuch, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, that I should not be exalted overmuch.
(8)  Concerning this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
(9)  And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for you: for my power is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
(10)  Wherefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in injuries, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  5
  • Topic Count:  53
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  2,371
  • Content Per Day:  0.87
  • Reputation:   1,489
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  10/05/2016
  • Status:  Offline

12 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

Interesting way of looking at it. Do you not read other books about Christian life or expounding the scriptures? or read sermons or listen to them? I think of books, like the one we will be studying, as a series of sermons to help us to know what to do biblically.

Absolutely true that we should be immersed in the word of God and learn of all his ways and the ways that he wants for us to inherit and practice.  Is it not a blessed thing too that God has given men gifts to write and speak of kingdom things, yes it is not the word of God, but why would men call Spurgeon the greatest preacher, is it not a gift given to convey messages about a holy God.

In the realm of the spiritual, it is only when people encounter troubling things that they seek out help from people who may have gone through similar things or wants to know if others actually write or mentions them in books ect.   It is indeed an experience other than what have been written in scripture about the spiritual world and the few examples.  Now a believer is not to dwell in those things, but when you are accosted by them, then it becomes a different story.  The people who says they only read the bible and does not need any other help ect, are or may be speaking of an immediate time. If or when something of the nature we are speaking about, I can guarantee they would spend hours searching to find good books to get all the information about what the situations are and especially if their children or other loved ones are affected.

Again, a believer may not know at the moment why these things have happened and for sure look to Jesus as the healer, provider and protector and not yield to the temptations to seek other mediums for help and cure.  This also is part of satan plan, for the believer to doubt God and his word and go in desperation to seek out palm readers and those who practice divination ect.  This is all too real and for those who are not born again, I am sure this is whom they turn to as they look to get help for things that modern science with all its greatness has no help for, hence partly the reason for lots of people in mental institutions suffering with no help insight.  So in my experience with this topic, books on this subject gives the reader some angles about what others have been through , what God says about it and some steps to heal in line with Gods word. God has placed men here as his ministers to help us, we can choose to reject or review what is said.  Yes, we have to be very careful about what we digest, but when someone has written something that you can relate too, you know it is true definitely.  When you cannot relate, but sees scriptural reference is given about it, then you keep it in mind if or when you encounter things troubling. 

  • Thumbs Up 1
  • Loved it! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Worthy Ministers
  • Followers:  56
  • Topic Count:  1,664
  • Topics Per Day:  0.20
  • Content Count:  19,763
  • Content Per Day:  2.39
  • Reputation:   12,160
  • Days Won:  28
  • Joined:  08/22/2001
  • Status:  Offline

3 hours ago, maryjayne said:

the Holy Spirit reveal those oppression to us. We often do not remember the details of them. This can be because we were too young, or God, in his mercy hid the memories from us. These oppressions have to be healed and cleansed.

Neil's book, and others like them, show us how to recognise and deal with those oppression. Rather like a doctor finding a thorn in a puncture wounds, a thorn we did not know was there, but kept causing an area of skin to keep getting infected for no apparent reason, as we have no recollection of having trodden on a thorn.

I notice that those of us who have been through these trial are all saying the same things. These things are real.

I am less clear about if we need to deal with the sins of our parents in this area.

5
Quote

I am less clear about if we need to deal with the sins of our parents in this area.

The sins of our fathers will only pass on unto the third generation of unbelievers.

Deuteronomy 24:16 

16 “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Ezekiel 18:20 

20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Jeremiah 31:30 

30 But everyone shall die for his own iniquity. Each man who eats sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Exodus 20:5  You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me.

The curse will be broken when people turn back to God and in these days are born again . The O.T. people lived by faith.

  • This is Worthy 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  24
  • Topic Count:  40
  • Topics Per Day:  0.02
  • Content Count:  1,459
  • Content Per Day:  0.61
  • Reputation:   2,377
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  08/23/2017
  • Status:  Offline

At the core of the discussion that's been generated by the choice of the first book is this, how should Christians deal with habitual and compulsive sins and unhealthy behaviors and thought patterns and feelings in ourselves and other Christians?   Some Christians view this mainly as a function of willpower: if you were serious about repentance and serving God then you'd give up whatever addiction it is you are addicted to.  Some view it as a proof of lack of salvation:  if you were really saved, you wouldn't keep on in that sin.   Some Christians view this mainly as a function of spiritual growth:  if you read the Bible more, pray enough, and grow spiritually, those things will disappear.  Some Christians view this as primarily being about spiritual warfare:  the enemy causes most of this and must be cast out in some way.  Some Christians view emotional and spiritual wounds in the same manner as physical ones:  they are things that cripple and hinder us and need to be healed by God in some manner.  Of course people with various views have their list of Bible proof texts as to why they are correct.   If you read enough posts of advice given on various Christians forums for Christians struggling with addictions or compulsive feelings such as fear or depression or anger,  many responses tend to fit into one of those categories.

My views on the matter have ultimately been shaped by many many years worth of testimonies of what God has done in people's lives who I know well.  We can start out with our (and others') opinions about what the Bible says but at some point we need to take into account what God is actually doing in our lives and other people's lives to see if our opinions about what the Bible teaches match the reality of what God is really doing.  Over the years,  I've heard enough testimonies to see that God does things in different ways in different people.  Some addictions have vanished when someone was saved;  some vanished instantaneously at some point due to prayer;  others vanished when some type of healing in a seemingly unrelated area took place.  I've heard similar things with regard to compulsive feelings of fear, depression, and anger.  I know Christians who've seen these things vanish away in response to something God did or changes they made in their lives.  I know Christians for whom this was a process and some for whom it was more a one-time event.  I've become very suspicious of one-size-fits-all advice to these things.  When many Christians testify about tangible changes in their lives that God has brought about in particular ways, I want to learn from it rather than dismiss it.

  • This is Worthy 1
  • Loved it! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  35
  • Topic Count:  1,192
  • Topics Per Day:  0.20
  • Content Count:  7,264
  • Content Per Day:  1.19
  • Reputation:   15,710
  • Days Won:  194
  • Joined:  07/15/2007
  • Status:  Offline

@GandalfTheWise

26 minutes ago, GandalfTheWise said:

how should Christians deal with habitual and compulsive sins and unhealthy behaviors and thought patterns and feelings in ourselves and other Christians?  

Thanks for your thorough and insightful summary of the various schools of thought on this topic :thumbsup: I think you covered it nicely. (These are the same groups or categories I see.)

29 minutes ago, GandalfTheWise said:

 I know Christians for whom this was a process and some for whom it was more a one-time event.  I've become very suspicious of one-size-fits-all advice to these things.  When many Christians testify about tangible changes in their lives that God has brought about in particular ways, I want to learn from it rather than dismiss it.

:) I am happy to see this open-minded view espoused. For we are all individuals and the Lord has His own method to deal with each one of us. I think about how different each miracle of Jesus is described. His interactions with these people were unique. The cookie cutter Christian mentality is one that does more harm than good. Or as you put it- one size fits all.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...