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Why did God create the universe


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Hard to know how to respond. "Bring many sons to glory," is an expression that doesn't specify who, or how many, or how this glorification is to take place or the ultimate purpose for same. What we don't want to do is start reading in our modern ideas into this concept. The author had a reason to include this phrase that was God-breathed, but the famous aphorism, "The Bible can't mean now what it DIDNT MEAN THEN," seem appropriate. 

If we read into passages our own meaning will will never gain revelation from the Bible but rather just choose a beleif that we want to justify by misrepresenting the Bible. 

With that in mind we have interpretive rules:

  1. interpret in light of the context, culture of the author
  2. interpret in light of the literary style
  3. interpet in light of idiomatic usage (figurative language)
  4. interpret in light of progressive revelation OT knows nothing of grace, the church, end of the law, gospels are written during the Old Covenant and don't comment on New Covenant ideas
  5. interpret the unclear in light of the clear, we have have highly confusing language about persevering in the faith in Hebrews/James but Paul in Galatians 3 is spending the entire chapter on just that idea, so the unclear passages that could be mistaken to support sanctification by keeping the law or good works is completely destroyed by the much clearer and undisputed teaching in Gal.

there ar either interpretive motifs in the grammatical-historical method.

point is, we have to pick a subject, say soteriology or salvation, and collect the data from the appropriate sources, I.e. Since salvation doesn't appear in the OT or even Old Covenant through faith we want to collect information that is specifically about salvation from our current church age (found in the epistles NOT THE GOSPELS) get that wrong and you will blend old and new covenants (keep the law, don't keep the law)!

Misuse scripture and you will create incoherencies that were not possibly true then or now. 

 

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On 12/17/2018 at 12:34 PM, Larry H said:

Greetings

I believe God created the universe to "bring many sons to glory" in the likeness of His Son. He created the corporeal cosmos to expand an already existing family, the Father and Son, prior to creation.  Angles not included. I found it interesting for the last 10 years how my views have changed incredibly.  Being introduced to preterism, a road to conditionalism/annhilationism. However the family concept I still hold onto.

My former thinking when considering the end results of one's life was that God could take the umbrella atonement  and cover whomever He pleases. Now I'm dabbing into  universal salvation for all.

"bring many sons to glory" Hebrews 2:10

"conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" Romans 8:29

Kind Regards

Larry

Shalom Larry,

Did you ever see my 2 part video series -- The Restoration of All Things?  I believe you'll be blessed to understand ... the concept of God's restoration plan and how it fits with what information you are seeking.

God bless,

George

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10 hours ago, George said:

Shalom Larry,

Did you ever see my 2 part video series -- The Restoration of All Things?  I believe you'll be blessed to understand ... the concept of God's restoration plan and how it fits with what information you are seeking.

God bless,

George

Greeting George 

 I would appropriate if you can send me a link of those video so I can unearth why God created a corporeal  cosmos to Father, adopt,  spiritual children in His Son's likeness. 

Thanks before time

Larry

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58 minutes ago, Larry H said:

Greeting George 

 I would appropriate if you can send me a link of those video so I can unearth why God created a corporeal  cosmos to Father, adopt,  spiritual children in His Son's likeness. 

Thanks before time

Larry

 

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Hi George

Thanks for the discourse, I found it interesting how the OT paved the way to the NT. However my inquiry goes previously to the fall in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Which many believe is an unanswerable question of why God created the universe. Which I believe is to bring many sons to glory in the likeness of Christ. And by doing so our Father in heaven has children that are siblings for His first born.. Christ being in the same Divine essence and substance of the Father. Just As the children of Adam that are intuitive in his human nature. Hebrews 2:10-13

If this true, and I believe it is, than why create a corporeal universe to bring forth spiritual children. Creature sharing the blood of their greatest Grandfather Adam. The same blood which Christ gave up for the sins of mankind.

1 Corinthians 15:46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.

Thanks for reading

Larry

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23 minutes ago, Larry H said:

Hi George

Thanks for the discourse, I found it interesting how the OT paved the way to the NT. However my inquiry goes previously to the fall in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Which many believe is an unanswerable question of why God created the universe. Which I believe is to bring many sons to glory in the likeness of Christ. And by doing so our Father in heaven has children that are siblings for His first born.. Christ being in the same Divine essence and substance of the Father. Just As the children of Adam that are intuitive in his human nature. Hebrews 2:10-13

If this true, and I believe it is, than why create a corporeal universe to bring forth spiritual children. Creature sharing the blood of their greatest Grandfather Adam. The same blood which Christ gave up for the sins of mankind.

1 Corinthians 15:46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.

Thanks for reading

Larry

Hi Larry, It seems to me you are trying to formulate an alternative theology to that of the Scriptures with regard to God's motive and purpose in Creation, namely to make Himself and His glory known. 

Isa 43:6-7
(6)  I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
(7)  Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
Psa 19:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shews his handywork.
 

You question why we are given physical form, and we can also question why is there a physical Universe? The answer is found in Genesis, particularly the verses that affirm everything God made as "Good". Obviously God was satisfied with His Creation, it was to His plan with man being made in His own image, as an expression of Himself to show us how all things were with Him according to His Word, and to this day it is foolish to reject the goodness of God and fail to glorify Him for making all things as they are. 

 Rom 1:20-23
(20)  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(21)  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(22)  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(23)  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
 

As for the Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil, how wonderful and honest of God to include it in the Garden of Eden and to build His relationship with Adam and Eve around trust and obedience all the while knowing the evil opposition to His Will that would inevitably manifest. (See my thread The TOTKOGAE)

 

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2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Hi Larry, It seems to me you are trying to formulate an alternative theology to that of the Scriptures with regard to God's motive and purpose in Creation, namely to make Himself and His glory known. 

Isa 43:6-7
(6)  I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
(7)  Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.
Psa 19:1 To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David. The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shews his handywork.
 

You question why we are given physical form, and we can also question why is there a physical Universe? The answer is found in Genesis, particularly the verses that affirm everything God made as "Good". Obviously God was satisfied with His Creation, it was to His plan with man being made in His own image, as an expression of Himself to show us how all things were with Him according to His Word, and to this day it is foolish to reject the goodness of God and fail to glorify Him for making all things as they are. 

 Rom 1:20-23
(20)  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
(21)  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(22)  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
(23)  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
 

As for the Tree Of The Knowledge Of Good And Evil, how wonderful and honest of God to include it in the Garden of Eden and to build His relationship with Adam and Eve around trust and obedience all the while knowing the evil opposition to His Will that would inevitably manifest. (See my thread The TOTKOGAE)

Hi George thanks for responding, and  I am grateful for those verses. However they are not new to me, and I understand  the point being  "God created the universe to be worshiped" ...My take is .... on the other hand suggest those scripture demonstrate God is WORTHY of our worship nevertheless.

Did God plan to "bring many sons to glory" prior to creation, or did He want to be worshiped as his main and foremost goal?

Or was it to give joyfulness to his born again children by an intimate relationship with Himself, and to Father them.  What could Jesus want more than that. And I believe through that a child of God can overcome his old ways to some extent into a new creation as our literal brother Paul said.

Why I believe what I believe concerning God's original purpose. I will capitalize those things in the following verse. Since I do not think in term of religion, to me it's all about a family arrangement.

God's predestined plan prior to creation. I hope you get the gist of it whether it is scriptural or not.  To me it is the end result of Universal Restoration through the blood of Christ which brought us peace with God. Romans 5:1

Romans 8:17 Now if we are children, then we are heirs — heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, IF INDEED WE SHARE IN HIS SUFFERINGS IN ORDER THAT WE MAY ALSO SHARE IN HIS GLORY.

GOD'S PURPOSE

Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things GOD WORKS FOR THE GOOD OF THOSE WHO LOVE HIM, who have been called ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE.

29 For those God foreknew HE ALSO PREDESTINED TO BE CONFORMED TO THE LIKENESS OF HIS SON, that he might be the FIRSTBORN AMONG MANY BROTHERS.

30 And THOSE HE PREDESTINED, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, HE ALSO GLORIFIED.

 Hebrews 2:10 In BRINGING MANY SONS TO GLORY, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, should make the author of their salvation perfect through suffering.

11 BOTH THE ONE WHO MAKES MEN HOLY AND THOSE WHO ARE MADE HOLY ARE OF THE SAME FAMILY. SO JESUS IS NOT ASHAMED TO CALL THEM BROTHERS.

12 He says, "I WILL DECLARE YOUR NAME TO MY BROTHERS; in the presence of the congregation I will sing your praises."  

13 And again, "I will put my trust in him."  And again he says, "HERE AM I, AND THE CHILDREN GOD HAS GIVEN ME."  

Thanks for reading

Larry

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On 12/18/2018 at 4:34 AM, Larry H said:

Greetings

I believe God created the universe to "bring many sons to glory" in the likeness of His Son. He created the corporeal cosmos to expand an already existing family, the Father and Son, prior to creation.  Angles not included. I found it interesting for the last 10 years how my views have changed incredibly.  Being introduced to preterism, a road to conditionalism/annhilationism. However the family concept I still hold onto.

My former thinking when considering the end results of one's life was that God could take the umbrella atonement  and cover whomever He pleases. Now I'm dabbing into  universal salvation for all.

"bring many sons to glory" Hebrews 2:10

"conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" Romans 8:29

Kind Regards

Larry

I can see how those beliefs leads you to universalism which is a natural progression from conditionalism and annhilationism..  Suffice to say i disagree with all the doctrines you have mentioned including preterism, Anyway i will probably be engaging you in discussions in this forum sooner or later.. Till then Keep seeking and may the LORD bring you to the truth in all things..

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5 hours ago, Larry H said:

God's predestined plan prior to creation. I hope you get the gist of it whether it is scriptural or not.  To me it is the end result of Universal Restoration through the blood of Christ which brought us peace with God. Romans 5:1

Hi again Larry H, George will no doubt respond if not otherwise occupied, and whilst I am concerned with your grammar, I am able to extract some meaning from sentences.  The four-part truth is that firstly all aspects of our lives are foreknown by God, secondly some aspects of our lives are predestined, (particularly our fallen humanity, our need of a saviour, and our eternal citizenship in either heaven or hell depending on our faith or otherwise in Christ),  thirdly we are created with the capacity to act of our own volition (freewill), and fourthly God can and does intervene in our lives as it suits Him to.

So far none of the Scriptures you have posted can be construed as supporting your belief in so-called Universal Restoration.

The Gospel consists of four distinct but integrated messages that proclaim:

  1. The death of Jesus Christ is sufficient for the Salvation of sinners who have faith in Him.
  2. The death of Jesus Christ is sufficient for the Reconciliation of sinners who have faith in Him.
  3. The death of Jesus Christ is sufficient for the Sanctification of sinners who have faith in Him.
  4. The death of Jesus Christ is sufficient for the Hope of sinners who have faith in Him. 

 If these are not cause to glorify God then nothing is.

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10 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Hi again Larry H, George will no doubt respond if not otherwise occupied, and whilst I am concerned with your grammar, I am able to extract some meaning from sentences.  The four-part truth is that firstly all aspects of our lives are foreknown by God, secondly some aspects of our lives are predestined, (particularly our fallen humanity, our need of a saviour, and our eternal citizenship in either heaven or hell depending on our faith or otherwise in Christ),  thirdly we are created with the capacity to act of our own volition (freewill), and fourthly God can and does intervene in our lives as it suits Him to.

So far none of the Scriptures you have posted can be construed as supporting your belief in so-called Universal Restoration.

The Gospel consists of four distinct but integrated messages that proclaim:

  1. The death of Jesus Christ is sufficient for the Salvation of sinners who have faith in Him.
  2. The death of Jesus Christ is sufficient for the Reconciliation of sinners who have faith in Him.
  3. The death of Jesus Christ is sufficient for the Sanctification of sinners who have faith in Him.
  4. The death of Jesus Christ is sufficient for the Hope of sinners who have faith in Him. 

 If these are not cause to glorify God then nothing is.

Hi Mike Thanks for the response

"Was it something I said"

Quote

whilst I am concerned with your grammar

I do apologize for the grammar, my English teacher said the same thing.

I presume I made a boo boo Mike,  I thought UR theology meant it goes out to everyone, but only those in God's favor will receive the blessing. Thanks for the correction . And of course those verses in question was not my intent to prove UR  at all one way or the other.

Quote

If these are not cause to glorify God then nothing is.

I agree, but why the statement

"Hi George thanks for responding, and  I am grateful for those verses. However they are not new to me, and I understand  the point being  "God created the universe to be worshiped" ...My take is .... on the other hand suggest those scripture demonstrate God is WORTHY of our worship nevertheless.

Perhaps if George doesn't respond you can take helm. The subject matter is why did God create the universe.  

Regards

Larry

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