Why did God create the universe

[Michael37]

17 hours ago, Larry H said:

Hi Mike Thanks for the response

"Was it something I said"

I do apologize for the grammar, my English teacher said the same thing.

I presume I made a boo boo Mike,  I thought UR theology meant it goes out to everyone, but only those in God's favor will receive the blessing. Thanks for the correction . And of course those verses in question was not my intent to prove UR  at all one way or the other.

I agree, but why the statement

"Hi George thanks for responding, and  I am grateful for those verses. However they are not new to me, and I understand  the point being  "God created the universe to be worshiped" ...My take is .... on the other hand suggest those scripture demonstrate God is WORTHY of our worship nevertheless.

Perhaps if George doesn't respond you can take helm. The subject matter is why did God create the universe.  

Regards

Larry

Hi Larry, I hope you are getting some edification from our discussion on why God created the Universe. It is tempting to just say for us to live in  but you raised a good point about the natural first then the spiritual. 

 

Quote

 

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 9:42 AM, Larry H said:

why create a corporeal universe to bring forth spiritual children. Creature sharing the blood of their greatest Grandfather Adam. The same blood which Christ gave up for the sins of mankind.

 1Corinthians 15:46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 

 

I like this earlier verse that ties in with the Genesis account of Creation and God being pleased with His work.

1Co 15:38 but God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own.

Beyond that we do know from the Bible that spiritual beings do exist and that ultimately all things that exist are under God's authority. It is obvious that God has not confined Himself to creating spiritual beings who have no need of physical dimensions with which to interact, so we can be assured that our physicality is the result of God's infinite mind having a desire to include finite elements, those of limited duration, into the expanse of His eternal Presence.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Michael37
typo

[other one]

God was sitting around in the dark one day probably kind of bored and an idea popped into his mind...…    and he cried out, "Let there be light."  and it all just kind of grew from that.

[enoob57]

The substance of Spirit does not require created elements God just did so in His Pleasure....
Rev 4:11

11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
KJV

How to understand illumined aspects without light is beyond our created ability but never the less 

1 John 1:2

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
KJV

darkness did not exist till He created it yet forming light is one lesson to be understood yet pending to anything I have read thus far... I think wave and particle has all on the need of tutoring thus far  
Isa 45:7
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.' 
NKJV
 

Edited December 22, 2018 by enoob57

[Larry H]

6 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Hi Larry, I hope you are getting some edification from our discussion on why God created the Universe. It is tempting to just say for us to live in  but you raised a good point about the natural first then the spiritual. 

 

I like this earlier verse that ties in with the Genesis account of Creation and God being pleased with His work.

1Co 15:38 but God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own.

Beyond that we do know from the Bible that spiritual beings do exist and that ultimately all things that exist are under God's authority. It is obvious that God has not confined Himself to creating spiritual beings who have no need of physical dimensions with which to interact, so we can be assured that our physicality is the result of God's infinite mind having a desire to include finite elements, those of limited duration, into the expanse of His eternal Presence.

Hi Mike .... Thanks for the response, and sure it provides for me an interchange on God's purpose. Most Christians shy away, or don't care to know, about the subject matter, finding it unnecessary to take action to the ultimate question of their existence. If there is answer it's in scriptures. I believe I provided some unanswered key verses which were not touched, or challenged.

If you remember I presented Romans 8:29 concerning predestination. I assume you misunderstood my intent, what I intended was the outcome of God's predestine plan for believers "to be conformed to the likeness of his Son" Not an individual's freedom to choose or not choose their fate.

And again

In Hebrews 2:10 What was predestine was. "bringing many sons to glory"

So why do we exist

"And by him we cry, "Abba,  Father."  

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, enoob57 said:

darkness did not exist till He created it yet forming light is one lesson to be understood yet pending to anything I have read thus far... I think wave and particle has all on the need of tutoring thus far  
Isa 45:7
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.' 
NKJV

This is true. Polarity is a consequence of condition. If "yes" then "no". If "here" then "there". If "good" then "evil".  

[Michael37]

2 hours ago, Larry H said:

Hi Mike .... Thanks for the response, and sure it provides for me an interchange on God's purpose. Most Christians shy away, or don't care to know, about the subject matter, finding it unnecessary to take action to the ultimate question of their existence. If there is answer it's in scriptures. I believe I provided some unanswered key verses which were not touched, or challenged.

If you remember I presented Romans 8:29 concerning predestination. I assume you misunderstood my intent, what I intended was the outcome of God's predestine plan for believers "to be conformed to the likeness of his Son" Not an individual's freedom to choose or not choose their fate.

And again

In Hebrews 2:10 What was predestine was. "bringing many sons to glory"

So why do we exist

"And by him we cry, "Abba,  Father."  

So Larry, I know you presented Romans 8:29 to inquire about predestination but the premise that this verse means a cold, calculating God has arbitrarily fixed or predetermined everyone's actions, attitudes, and acceptance or rejection of His Will prior to His creating the Universe is false and not the intention of the Scriptures to convey. I have explained the four aspects of God's wisdom towards us in an early post (see below), and I am hoping that you study the entire chapter Romans 8 very closely to get the full meaning of these verses, which are a sorites or "heap" in which things are added in a particular order.   

See firstly how those who love God are called according to His purpose. Secondly see how He foreknows who love Him and foreordains or predestines these to be conformed to the image of His Son as a consequence of their loving Him, and calls them, and justifies them, and glorifies them. Before any of the latter things can happen to us we must love God, and this He does not predestine us to do against our will or it would not be true love. 

Rom 8:28-30
(28)  And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose.
(29)  For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
(30)  and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 8:00 PM, Michael37 said:

The four-part truth is that firstly all aspects of our lives are foreknown by God, secondly some aspects of our lives are predestined, (particularly our fallen humanity, our need of a saviour, and our eternal citizenship in either heaven or hell depending on our faith or otherwise in Christ),  thirdly we are created with the capacity to act of our own volition (freewill), and fourthly God can and does intervene in our lives as it suits Him to.

[1to3]

On 12/19/2018 at 12:42 PM, George said:

Did you ever see my 2 part video series -- The Restoration of All Things?  I believe you'll be blessed to understand ... the concept of God's restoration plan and how it fits with what information you are seeking.

God bless,

George

Hi Goerge;

I just watched the video The Restoration of All Things part on and two.

If I understand things you were mention in part two, we are to pray forestoration for the Jews, not for their land but to their salvation in Christ Jesus? found at 45:46 of your video

If that is so, yes I can understand this, and have always understood this.

What i don't yet quite understand is the building of the 3rd temple. God could not allow David to build the first temple because to much blood was on his hands.

1 Chronicles 28:3

³ But God said to me, ‘You shall not build a house for My name, because you have been a man of war and have shed blood.’

Then his son Solomon constructed  the first temple  but then had so many diverse wives of different occult practices that God neither could really bless that temple could he ?

In any event Solomons  1rst temple was destroyed by the Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon in 586 B.C.E.

The Second Temple was built after the return from the Babylonian Captivity, around 536 B.C.E, the and the curtain that separated the place of Hollies were the high priest went in to offer sacrifices was ripped open when Christ Jesus was crucified. Then it was destroyed by Roman troops under general Titus in 70 C.E.

"According to the Prophet Daniel, the Messiah would be cut off before the Temple is destroyed:

“After the sixty-two weeks the Messiah [Mashiach] will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince [ruler, nagid] who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.  And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.”  (Daniel 9:26)

This prophecy was fulfilled in AD 70 with the destruction of the Temple, just forty years after Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) was cut off by his execution on a tree."

 

The 3rd temple has yet to be built but now we are hearing of how they are preparing to build it and perform once again sacrifices. https://free.messianicbible.com/feature/end-time-prophecy-why-is-the-third-temple-so-important/

When the 3rd temple is built it will be the place where the anti-christ will make a seven year deal and then brake it half way through and declare himself to be God.

 

My question is there should be no hurry in wanting to see the 3rd temple build as it is going to be a place were the anti-christ will reign and the Jews will be deceived once again.

"Through the study of numerous end-time Scriptures, we believe that this prince or ruler (nagid)—the anti-Messiah—will appear just as Daniel describes.

Daniel says he will confirm a covenant of peace “for one week” (often interpreted as seven years) but break that covenant in the middle of the term.

“And he [the prince] will make [some translations say ‘confirm’] a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate [some interpretations say, set up an idol on the wing or precipice of the Temple], even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”  (Daniel 9:27; see also Matthew 24:15; 2 Thessalonians 2:4)

The anti-Messiah will also proclaim himself to be God!

“He [the man of lawlessness] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”  (2 Thess. 2:4)

The Temple Institute as well as the Temple Mount and Eretz Yisrael Faithful Movement are the two main Jewish organizations responsible for making preparations for the Third Temple and the reinstatement of sacrificial worship.

Other organizations have plans, too.  One wants to pitch a tabernacle-style tent on the Mount; another wants to build a synagogue in one of the corners of the platform.

Why? Because as Chaim Richman, the director of the Temple Institute states in his Myth Buster video series, “Buildings don’t fall down from heaven.”  He adds that “it’s a mitzvah to build the Temple,” citing Exodus 23:8 and that Jews should be performing all 613 mitzvot, which requires a Temple."

"Daniel 9 and 11 as well as Brit Chadashah writings, however, help us see that an alternate reality exists for the Temple. "

Daniel, Yeshua, the Anti-Messiah, and the Third Temple

In the prophetic writings of the Book of Daniel and the Brit Chadashah (New Testament), we find significant details about the role of a rebuilt Temple in the end times.

Both Daniel and Yeshua (Jesus) tell us that the Anti-Messiah will defile the Third Temple before the return of the true Messiah.

They both call this spiritual defilement in the Temple the abomination of desolation:

“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.”  (Matthew 24:15–16; compare with Daniel 9:27, 11:31, and 12:11) "

 

What blessing  is their in building the 3rd temple when they will begin to do animal sacrifices like they did before Christ Jesus Crucifixion.?

Why would God bless that if He sent His only begotten Son Christ Jesus once to abolish that in the first place?

If Christ Jesus died for both Jew and gentiles to redeem them and us from the power of sin, why are we as Christians to pray for this 3rd temple to be built?

This brings me to question also political Zionism. Those involved in this political Zionism , many don't even believe in God and their cause is anything but Holy. And also the tactics they use are violent. How can God Bless that if he could not bless David to even build a temple because so much blood shed happened under his rule?

I believe in a spiritual Zion and that God will bring down from heaven His Zion, but why should we pray for a political Zion? as that is a lot of blood shed for many and will hasten the coming of the antichrist?

I still don't understand all of this , do you have an explanation?

Sorry for going off topic, buy if you could answer either here or through angels4 u topic:in home - vedios-biblical topic:Third Temple Ritual Has Begun it would be much appreciated.Thanks;

Also just viewed another video titled:Political Zionism VS Biblical Zionism

1to3

 

 

Edited December 23, 2018 by 1to3

[Larry H]

20 hours ago, Michael37 said:

So Larry, I know you presented Romans 8:29 to inquire about predestination but the premise that this verse means a cold, calculating God has arbitrarily fixed or predetermined everyone's actions, attitudes, and acceptance or rejection of His Will prior to His creating the Universe is false and not the intention of the Scriptures to convey. I have explained the four aspects of God's wisdom towards us in an early post (see below), and I am hoping that you study the entire chapter Romans 8 very closely to get the full meaning of these verses, which are a sorites or "heap" in which things are added in a particular order.   

See firstly how those who love God are called according to His purpose. Secondly see how He foreknows who love Him and foreordains or predestines these to be conformed to the image of His Son as a consequence of their loving Him, and calls them, and justifies them, and glorifies them. Before any of the latter things can happen to us we must love God, and this He does not predestine us to do against our will or it would not be true love. 

Rom 8:28-30
(28)  And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, even to them that are called according to his purpose.
(29)  For whom he foreknew, he also foreordained to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren:
(30)  and whom he foreordained, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
 

Quote

So Larry, I know you presented Romans 8:29 to inquire about predestination but the premise that this verse means a cold, calculating God has arbitrarily fixed or predetermined everyone's actions, attitudes, and acceptance or rejection of His Will prior to His creating the Universe is false and not the intention of the Scriptures to convey

Romans 8:29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

Hey Mike your doing it again I never meant the individualality of each person being predestine to God's  will, it is his purpose that is predestinated. I thought I made that clear. If not here is my take.

God has given a free will to choose our own fate, our own choices. "Our own actions and attitude or rejecting of His will." and simple said God is expanding his family by bringing many sons to glory. Look around and witness the growth of God intimate family according to His purpose. This did not happen to come about by chance.

Again this has nothing to do with Universal Salvation theology  for all people. With all due respect your answering your own questions, and challenging something that is just not there. 

If George doesn't engage I hope now we can move on the why God created the universe, the subject matter in question. I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter after considering the verses presented. If it's my grammar that is causing the misunderstanding please let me know.

Kind Regards

Larry

[Michael37]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 6:45 AM, Larry H said:

I assume you misunderstood my intent, what I intended was the outcome of God's predestine plan for believers "to be conformed to the likeness of his Son"

If you want to be better understood, Larry H, rather than use the grammatically incorrect phrase God's predestine plan may I suggest you simply state that in His foreknowledge God predestines His elect to be conformed to the image of His Son.  When we draw near to God with a true heart in full assurance of faith we can be sure that God has indeed predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son. I am bold to proclaim this truth so that everyone knows what is in store for those who love God and are the called according to His purpose. As for why God created the Universe, the answer is still the same, for His glory. 

1Jn 3:1-3
(1)  Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not.
(2)  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(3)  And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.

1Co 1:23-31
(23)  But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
(24)  But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
(25)  Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
(26)  For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
(27)  But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
(28)  And base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
(29)  That no flesh should glory in his presence.
(30)  But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
(31)  That, according as it is written, He that glories, let him glory in the Lord.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Michael37
added

[Larry H]

59 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

If you want to be better understood, Larry H, rather than use the grammatically incorrect phrase God's predestine plan may I suggest you simply state that in His foreknowledge God predestines His elect to be conformed to the image of His Son.  When we draw near to God with a true heart in full assurance of faith we can be sure that God has indeed predestined us to be conformed to the image of His Son. I am bold to proclaim this truth so that everyone knows what is in store for those who love God and are the called according to His purpose. As for why God created the Universe, the answer is still the same, for His glory. 

1Jn 3:1-3
(1)  Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not.
(2)  Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
(3)  And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.

1Co 1:23-31
(23)  But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
(24)  But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
(25)  Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
(26)  For you see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
(27)  But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
(28)  And base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
(29)  That no flesh should glory in his presence.
(30)  But of him are you in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
(31)  That, according as it is written, He that glories, let him glory in the Lord.

Hi Mike  ....So in your estimation God created the universe to be glorified by us humans here on earth. To me it sounds like a human mindset for those in power.  I on the other hand glorify God because of what he has accomplished.  Can you see the difference. If you see God as your heavenly Father then you will understand why He has brought you into existence. Is that not  reason to glorify God. He gave His Son for the forgiveness of our sins. Is that not a reason to glorify God.

This was not a plan  B because of the fall in the Garden of Eden.

"In Eden, the bible account shows, God dealt with Adam as a Father to a son, a family arrangement. If God had to change his rule over them to a different form of Government, this would suggest that His original form of rule was faulty or weak, unable to govern humanity properly, or that God was experimenting. Thus, the devil's opposition forced God to acknowledge that another form of Government would be better."

The things accomplished is the reason He created the universe. So what has He accomplished that did not exist before.  

Hebrews 2:10 IN BRINGING MANY SONS TO GLORY, it was fitting that God, for whom and through whom everything exists, SHOULD MAKE THE AUTHOR OF THEIR SALVATION PERFECT THROUGH SUFFERING.

Hebrews 2:13 And again, "I will put my trust in him."  And again he says, "HERE AM I, AND THE CHILDREN GOD HAS GIVEN ME." 

Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.

So Mike why do we love our heavenly Father.

1 Peter 3:15