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Who is the Whore of babylon


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Just now, Royff said:

As I understand Daniel 9:24 it is to Finish transgression, but if the Lords rapture Christians to heaven and leave a world of sinners behind, I don’t think that that will finish transgression but a world filled with sin.

There are 2 major events described in this prophecy that must occur before its final fulfillment. The first event is the death and resurrection of the Messiah, which occurred in 30 A.D.. The second event involves a 7 year covenant that will be made and broken prior to the Messiah's return to conquer the earth to establish God's government over all nations forever.

Now I went over these verses of scripture and found nothing about a pre tribulation rapture.


“Seventy weeks are determined upon your people and upon the holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy” (KJV).

Nothing about a pre tribulation rapture. If you are referring to the gap that started after the 69 week as the rapture, then you are adding this rapture thing here, I can find nothing here that even implies that the Lord comes between that 69th and the gap to the 70th week I can’t find anything of a Rapture Here.

Only a gap between the 69th and the 70th week. It's like the missing link of evolution, it's just not here. Now, I’m sure that gap is there for some reason or man has miscalculated it. But whatever it's there for it makes no mention of a rapture. What you are doing is creating an argument from silence. Since there is nothing there in that gap you use that space to create an argument where there is nothing. Dangerous!

The rapture of the church is of course a NEW TESTAMENT doctrine, and Paul was the ONLY man who received knowledge of the rapture. You read it in 1 Thes. 4 & 5. Also Jesus makes a hint of it in John 14. He went to prepare homes for us, and will come and take us to them. John saw the raptured church in heaven in Rev. 7. Don't be thrown by the two words, "great tribulation." John is only telling us that at the time of the rapture, people will be being martyred around the world. It is coming. 

You are wise in seeing that gap. Many here are blind to it. It is a gap for the church age. God turned to the Gentiles and this age will last until the fullness of the Gentiles will have come in.

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2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Everything you said is wrong, not according to scriptures. There have always been conquests: one people group fighting another.

i am just saying the trigs have gotten tender and to know the signs of the times.  yes there's always been conquest war famine and plague but the horsemen are extreme world wide events and during the 17 to into the 20th century the european powers conquered most of the world and then we had a time of extreme war for 100 years and now we have climate change and global warming.  

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5 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

Wow.

There is a lot of dissension going on in this forum, lol. I won't lie, I felt pretty lost just trying to wade my way through all of the ideas/thoughts/etc. on here, and I am, and have always been, a voracious reader with pretty decent reading comprehension. But that 'zoom!' sound you're hearing are all of these posts as they fly over my head, lol.

Right in your assessment .   This particular topic or thread would lead to a very wide spectrum of thoughts as it can be spread to many geography,religions, people, kingdoms ect.  Many seem to have their version of interpretation as pat down and even a dogmatic view.   When dogmatism is argued between many, then your analysis becomes so true. You have to persevere though, as it keep the saints engaged within the body.  If apologies and pardons are issued where they are warranted, then the threads are just the threshing floor.    

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2 hours ago, Royff said:

Here you start out saying that after the rapture, still not showing in scripture where it talks about a rapture, are we just supposed to just assume it's there because you say that’s what’s happening. Is that your proof of a rapture, that because some people think Paul was raptured, is that your evidence for rapture. Even Paul didn’t know what was going on there, he said he didn’t know if he was in spirit or flesh. If Paul was there in the spirit then that’s not rapture, the rapture is physical, the rapturing of resurrected physical beings to heaven in their new resurrected bodies fit for heaven that’s why the rapture is after the resurrection, God is not rapturing bodies of sin to heaven.

Paul and John was summoned to receive instruction, that was temporary, the rapture in permanent. Scripture says we shall forever with Him in the air. Not to visit and return to a sinful earth. No that wasn’t the rapture of Paul because he would never have returned to a body of sin, the rapture is permanent. So, whatever happen with Paul because he return to his body of sin. Imagine that, a saint being rapture to heaven and return to a body of sin. No, once raptured you never return to a body of sin. So that evidence of rapture ins no evidence at all, only what you’ve added to the gap.

You talk about waiting out the wrath of God in heaven what you are confusing is the tribulation period with the Day of the Lord when no one can stand. The church is here in the tribulation but only the lost in the day of the Lord when the earth is destroyed. The earth is not destroyed in the tribulation but it is destroyed in the day of the Lord, two different events. You never explain how could Christians die in the earth even after the pale horse rides out just after the souls under the altar complaints.

I think I saw somewhere you stated that no Christian will face the beast and be beheaded, now that’s not what scripture, many were killed after the pale horse rides out. You claim I don’t know bible prophecy but you denied the prophecy of the Lord that was fulfilled in Rome. I know bible prophecy and I also know manipulation of that bible prophecy. And trying to force your interpretation of a rapture in between the gap in the prophecy of Daniel is  definitely manipulation of bible prophecy.

Adding to the word of God, you were warned of the consequences of doing this, in this very same Book of Revelation, the Lord passed a curse on anyone who add to this word and you are surely adding to the word of God.

How is it that you said no child of God shall face beheading when the bible says there will be beheadings even after the pale horse rides out, you just called the word of God a lie.

You really must explain this, whose mistaken, you or the word of God? All that stuff you put up there about the 70 weeks of Daniel only shows that you and the word of God are in dispute. You are setting a pattern here. You claim that the prophecy of Jesus that His church would suffer and be killed in Rome did not happen, again showing that you and the word of God are in disagreement. Denying the fulfilled prophecy of the Lord just to try to prove an unsound teaching. The Lord be true though all men are liars.

If you stop throwing scripture around taken out of its context, added to, twisting and reshaping for the weak in Christ; the fearful, then maybe you can take the time to explain why you say one thing and the Word of God says another. Like you saying no children of God will be killed in the tribulation and the Lord tells those under the altar that their brothers shall be killed just like they were. This is no small thing disputing with the word of God. I believe you really need to clear that up. You say John saw the rapture in heaven, but you explain nothing about this. You seems to be throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks.

Again, you need to explain what you mean by by John saw the rapture, don’t think I don’t know what you are trying to get at, because I do, but I need you to explain to see if we are on the same page, you can’t keep throwing things  up without any explanation. Show where John saw the rapture and explain its meaning. If you can’t do that you have no business trying to use this in your argument.

You are constantly contradicting the word of God and fulfilled bible prophecy.

I know you can’t explain these thing you know you can’t explain these thing because they are simply not true. All the prophets of God were Murdered, throughout the history of the church God servants faced death, which one of the disciples said; we face death everyday, not asking you to answer that question just reminding you that its there. The only Christians that are not being persecuted  is this end time church, yea’ the one that God says he will spew out of His mouth. No persecution, not tribulation, no need to work, in fact they teach against works. Do nothing, sacrifice nothing, but inherit everything. It like the Lord said; they really believe they got it going on, but they are poor and naked and blind. 

I TOLD you, read 1 Thes. chapter 4 & 5. Please don't write any more until you at least read it? It is the rapture. I call it PAUL's rapture because HE WROTE IT. I think you are pulling my leg talking about Paul when He was stoned to death visiting heaven. If you would read and understand 1 Thes 4 & 5, Paul explains how the church will be caught up, and tells us WHEN in chapter 5. But you have to UNDERSTAND it. 

OF COURSE the alive in Christ people will be changed AFTER the resurrection of the dead in Christ: Paul GIVES US this order. It is truely a resurrection / rapture. But those alive and in Christ are CHANGED - so no sinful body will be taken to heaven. I hope you have read 1 Cor. 15 where Paul talks about the change. But make no mistake, it will come BEFORE the 70th week begins. 

what you are confusing is the tribulation period with the Day of the Lord when no one can stand.

No, sorry, but you are the one confused! It seems like you were only acting as if you did not know much. It seems you DO know some things but have them wrong. What do you MEAN by "the tribulation period?" Do you mean the 70th week of Daniel? if so, make no mistake: the rapture of the church will take the church to heaven BEFORE the 70th week begins. My guess is, you don't know WHERE the 70th week begins in Revelation. Not knowing that, how can you know whether pretrib or midtrib is right?

Not to visit and return to a sinful earth

You amaze me! You are rambling, making very little sense at it. i am guessing you have not read 1 Thes 4, or read it but don't believe it. You COMPLETELY misunderstood when I said "paul's rapture."  I was NOT talking about his trip to heaven. How could you have missed this? Your first two paragraphs then are wasted - talking nonsense.

The church is here in the tribulation but only the lost in the day of the Lord when the earth is destroyed.

This makes NO SENSE. AGain, do you mean "the 70th week?" No, the church is NOT here for the 70th week, for the entire week is WRATH. Do you want to set your OWN appointment with His wrath? God is certainly not going to set one for you. If you are here for His wrath, that will be YOUR doing, not God's. He has an escape plan for you.

The earth is not destroyed in the tribulation but it is destroyed in the day of the Lord, two different events.

You are badly confused. God and look: don't take my word for it: THE DAY begins in chapter 6 at the 6th seal. The 70th week goes from chapter 8 to chapter 16. Therefore, the 70th week is INSIDE the Day of the Lord. Have you read the Old Testament verses on THE DAY? you should. It would help you recognize THE DAY in Revelation. It is a day of DESTRUCTION. 

how could Christians die in the earth even after the pale horse rides out just after the souls under the altar complaints.

You are confused again! It seems to be a pattern. The 4th seal comes BEFORE the 5th seal martyrs. I think you don't understand: the first seal is the CHURCH taking the gospel to the world. Seals 2 through 4 is to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. But God has limited them to 1/4 of the earth. For sure they are responsible for a few of the martyrs, but not all of them. The martyrs are church age martyrs, by the way. You should know that. John is still in the church age until seal 6.

You are so far from truth, I will quit here. Pick one or more of these and let's discuss with scripture. 

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17 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but you missed it again! Daniel 8 is about Antiochus, nothing in our future.  Do you imagine the "little Horn" will take out three nations out of ten by peace? If so, how can you explain these words?  " Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?"

You miss it over and over: When the dead in Christ are raised - it is written so you should believe it - into the AIR. Is that not where birds FLY? OF COURSE the Bride of Christ will fly! But you won't be with them, because you have zero faith in flying. 

God has said HE will set no appointments for us. If you wish to set your own, go ahead....but it seems rather silly when God said He would not. 

 

 

What part you missing?

Daniel 8:23 "And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and under standing dark sentences, shall stand up."

This is talking about satan,the antichrist ,if you can't see this kinda wondering why I'm talking to you...

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3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I TOLD you, read 1 Thes. chapter 4 & 5. Please don't write any more until you at least read it? It is the rapture. I call it PAUL's rapture because HE WROTE IT. I think you are pulling my leg talking about Paul when He was stoned to death visiting heaven. If you would read and understand 1 Thes 4 & 5, Paul explains how the church will be caught up, and tells us WHEN in chapter 5. But you have to UNDERSTAND it. 

Where?

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57 minutes ago, n2thelight said:
4 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I TOLD you, read 1 Thes. chapter 4 & 5. Please don't write any more until you at least read it? It is the rapture. I call it PAUL's rapture because HE WROTE IT. I think you are pulling my leg talking about Paul when He was stoned to death visiting heaven. If you would read and understand 1 Thes 4 & 5, Paul explains how the church will be caught up, and tells us WHEN in chapter 5. But you have to UNDERSTAND it. 

Where?

I can answer... 

No where.

When Paul says we are not to suffer wrath it doesn't equate to "The Tribulation Period", whatever that is. Iamlamad, there is no 'pre-tribulation rapture'. It's just a fantasy.

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10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

There is NO NEED to wonder! We can be SURE the Beast and False prophet will reside in JERUSALEM for most of the last 3 1/2 years of the 70th week. It will be from Jerusalem that the greatest deception every put upon the human race will come from. It will deceive the entire world. No other city can come close.

Very hard to prove in any real sense. Because the 1st and 2nd beast reside in Jerusalem does not make Jerusalem the deceiver, it just makes the 2 beasts the deceivers. 

There is little doubt in my mind the the beast and the false prophet only arrive in Jerusalem from their former power base, sometime after power is consolidated and the worldwide deception has commenced.

To me it's makes little sense the beast rises to power and immediately calls himself god while sitting in the Temple. 

More in line with scripture the beast rises to power well before he ascends the steps of the Temple. Mainly because he will 'confirm' the covenant and only break it at the midpoint. To 'confirm', or 'strengthen with great strength' the covenant the beast will need power, and time to prove that power, well before breaking the covenant, proclaiming to be god, and setting up his tents in Jerusalem. This means the deception will be occurring from some where outside Jerusalem before the beast exalts himself and screams blasphemy toward heaven.

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5 minutes ago, SelahSong said:

There is no rapture; only Jesus' Second Coming at the 7th Trump. 

<><

I agree. 'Rapture' is made up. It's the 2nd coming and the gathering of the elect for which we are waiting and looking, and hoping.

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Christians don't hope to escape,we stand .

I mean dang,scripture even shows you how.

 

Ephesians 6:11 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil."

Does that verse say fly away?Not!!!

Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh ad blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

This battle we are going to fight against is not "flesh and blood", it is not people you see and hear, but it is against hidden and deceitful spiritual powers. Satan is the prince of darkness, and spiritually he controls the minds and actions of not only rulers of this earth, but all evil spirits in the heavenlies. These are the angelic beings in a fallen state.

Are you prepared mentally to do battle with Them? This battle is not with guns and swords, but with words and doctrines; with concepts and ideas, and these are the "fiery darts" that Satan will conduct his warfare against you with.

Daniel 8:23 will give us a view of what this ruler of darkness is like. "And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up."

This king in the "latter time" is Satan, the Antichrist; he is the "king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences". In the Hebrew text it means that Satan is "skilled in dissimulation" of the truth of God's word. Satan knows all of God's word, and as such, he is the father of lies and deception. He will twist and turn the truth a little here and a little there, to make it an outright lie. Satan is the Antichrist on earth, and we must never forget it.

Daniel 8:24 "And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practice, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy People."

Ephesians 6:13 "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God that ye may be able to with stand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

What day?

The day that satan comes to earth.Now,why would you need the whole armour of God if you not gonna be here?

 

Ephesians 6:14 "Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;"

Your "girt" is your belt. That is what holds up your pants, and our spiritual "belt" is the truth of God's word; all of it. Like the belt, it also holds you together, and keeps you from going flying off in all directions. If you know what to expect you will not stray off into Satan's camp in ignorance.

Our "breastplate of righteousness" is our justification, or authority for everything we say or do. That is the Word of God. It will protect you, but only if you are able to think for yourself, and the wisdom to direct our thinking can only come from God. Without that truth in your mind, you are spiritually naked, and defenseless against any spiritual battle. The world today is Biblically illiterate.

Ephesians 6:15 "And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;"

This is the kind of shoes that we all must have on. There is only one true peace, and that comes from Jesus Christ. The "gospel of peace" is the "good news of God's full plan". Your feet are used to walk with and get you around, while the shoes are for the protection of your feet. So we had better have the "gospel armor" on so when we move in these final days, we know exactly where to walk, and what to expect. There are no secrets for these days, as to how Satan's forces will move; for it is all written in God's Word [our Bible].

When we see the signs of the end times that are upon us, we had better understand what Satan will do; and then know what we had better do about it. Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 13 all tell us in detail what we are to do in that day. These are all part of our spiritual shoes, that will guide our feet to where they ought to take us.

Ephesians 6:16 "Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked."

Paul is telling us that this is the most important armor; "above all". When we put on our "shield of faith" we can quench [or snuff out] all of Satan's fiery darts. There is absolutely nothing Satan can send against you mentally, if you are filled with the seal of the living God. God even went far beyond that when He gave to Satan the keys of authority for his tribulation rule.

God said in Revelation 9:4 "And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thin, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads." That seal of God is the Scriptures; all of it, and it had better be stored in your mind [that's your "forehead"].

The "shield" is our faith, or the certain knowledge that we know that when Satan comes against us, we will automatically be given the moves we are to take to shield ourselves form him. Whatever comes our way will be snuffed out today, tomorrow, and right into Christ's Millennium age. Your faith is not only your belief, but your acting on that belief; which is sustained by your confidence that God will perform that what He said He will do. All things will come to pass exactly as He said it would in His Word.

Ephesians 6:17 "And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:"

The "sword of the spirit" is the "Word of God". Revelation 1:16 tells us that the sword is a two edged sword that destroys all of Satan's lies and deceptions. It is the Word of God, from the mouth of God, and written for us in the Bible.

Our head is the most vulnerable part of our body; Therefore our salvation had better be secure and sure in our mind. Our "salvation" is the most sure thing we can have, for it is Christ that does the saving, and it comes through our belief in Jesus Christ, and His work on the cross: His death and resurrection. All this was done by Him to pay the price for each and every sin that we have done. However, those sins are only forgiven by Him through our repentance to God, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

 

You run,I'll take that stand!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

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