Explain this

[discipler777]

1 hour ago, MyLordsServant said:

1 hour ago, wingnut- said:

 

That is the reason it doesn't make sense to you.  You see one answer to 2 questions, whereas the rest of us see two answers to two different questions, so it makes perfect sense to us.  Jesus wasn't mistaken, so which do you think is more plausible?

Jesus said, "ALL" these things will happen first.

Meaning everything He said.

First He said what would happen at the temple destruction.

Then He said when His coming would be...after which to that He says, "this generation".

 

MATTHEW.24:32-35 (NKJV) = The Parable of the Fig Tree

32 “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.

.

.

MATTHEW.24:29-31 = The Coming of the Son of Man

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven,and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

So far, no generation after the generation that had lived with Jesus Christ, has seen the 2nd (physical) Coming of Jesus Christ to earth. So, by the logical process of elimination, MATTHEW.24:34 is referring to the destruction of the Temple in 70AD, witnessed by that generation who heard Jesus's prophecy, which later came to pass as a historical event that has been recorded and read by generations afterward.

.

Edited December 21, 2018 by discipler777

[wingnut-]

3 minutes ago, MyLordsServant said:

My question is, what did Jesus mean by "this generation".

 

 

The generation that is alive when the signs of His coming begin to happen.  It is also worth noting, that not all agree on the translation to generation as being proper, race is one possibility, as well as others.  What I think is clear, or should be, is that not all of these things have happened yet.  So any error is in the understanding, not the answer itself, which to me is clearly still future.

[MyLordsServant]

41 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

The generation that is alive when the signs of His coming begin to happen.  It is also worth noting, that not all agree on the translation to generation as being proper, race is one possibility, as well as others.  What I think is clear, or should be, is that not all of these things have happened yet.  So any error is in the understanding, not the answer itself, which to me is clearly still future.

Then Jesus had bad grammar is what you're saying, or the author/translator.

Or it would have said, "that generation", not "this".

Also that view isn't supported by this verse: "For the Son of Man will come in His Father’s glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Where clearly Jesus is saying, the people standing there, meaning that generation.

[wingnut-]

23 minutes ago, MyLordsServant said:

Then Jesus had bad grammar is what you're saying, or the author/translator.

Or it would have said, "that generation", not "this".

Also that view isn't supported by this verse: "For the Son of Man will come in His Father’s glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Where clearly Jesus is saying, the people standing there, meaning that generation.

 

The coming in His kingdom has already began, it began at Pentecost, and others have already posted the scripture that clearly says this.  The disciples were the first to experience it, so they certainly did see it.  You are still mixing the two answers together, it will remain confusing as long as you do so.

[MyLordsServant]

37 minutes ago, wingnut- said:

 

The coming in His kingdom has already began, it began at Pentecost, and others have already posted the scripture that clearly says this.  The disciples were the first to experience it, so they certainly did see it.  You are still mixing the two answers together, it will remain confusing as long as you do so.

I'm not mixing the answers together. Read my first post. 

[discipler777]

1 hour ago, MyLordsServant said:

Then Jesus had bad grammar is what you're saying, or the author/translator.

Or it would have said, "that generation", not "this".

Also that view isn't supported by this verse: "For the Son of Man will come in His Father’s glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."

Where clearly Jesus is saying, the people standing there, meaning that generation.

MATTHEW.16:24-28 (NKJV) = Take Up the Cross and Follow Him

24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

.

The context of the verse that you quoted is related to the coming persecution of the apostles after the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The verse was given by Jesus Christ to the apostles as an assurance to them of the coming kingdom of God within them(= the outpouring of the Holy Spirit of God/Christ at ACTS.2), so that they would not deny Him and the faith in the face of persecution or even martyrdom from the Jews. In fact, nearly all the Apostles suffered martyrdom = they did not deny Christ and the faith = they kept the faith until the very end through the indwelling Spirit of God/Christ = "the kingdom of God is within you".(LUKE.17:21)

Imagine if the Holy Spirit of God(= power and revelations) had not been given to the apostles and disciples of Christ to indwell them from ACTS.2 onward when they were facing great persecution or even martyrdom(cf ACTS.7 & 8]  from the Jewish Temple authorities, Pharisees and Roman rulers.

.

P S - Apostle Peter had denied Jesus Christ 3X while in fear and despair(cf MATTHEW.10:33). Except for John, the resurrected Christ had to Personally call Peter, Thomas and the other apostles back into faith. Then ACTS.2 happened as prophesied, ie the coming of the kingdom of God within the apostles and disciples. Peter later suffered martyrdom = he did not again deny Christ and the faith.

.

Edited December 21, 2018 by discipler777

[MyLordsServant]

50 minutes ago, discipler777 said:

MATTHEW.16:24-28 (NKJV) = Take Up the Cross and Follow Him

24 Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. 25 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it. 26 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

.

The context of the verse that you quoted is related to the coming persecution of the apostles after the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The verse was given by Jesus Christ to the apostles as an assurance to them of the coming kingdom of God within them(= the outpouring of the Holy Spirit of God/Christ at ACTS.2), so that they would not deny Him and the faith in the face of persecution or even martyrdom from the Jews. In fact, nearly all the Apostles suffered martyrdom = they did not deny Christ and the faith = they kept the faith until the very end through the indwelling Spirit of God/Christ = "the kingdom of God is within you".(LUKE.17:21)

Imagine if the Holy Spirit of God(= power and revelations) had not been given to the apostles and disciples of Christ to indwell them from ACTS.2 onward when they were facing great persecution or even martyrdom(cf ACTS.7 & 8]  from the Jewish Temple authorities, Pharisees and Roman rulers.

.

P S - Apostle Peter had denied Jesus Christ 3X while in fear and despair(cf MATTHEW.10:33). Except for John, the resurrected Christ had to Personally call Peter, Thomas and the other apostles back into faith. Then ACTS.2 happened as prophesied, ie the coming of the kingdom of God within the apostles and disciples. Peter later suffered martyrdom = he did not again deny Christ and the faith.

.

This is a common verse that many assume refers to transfiguration, because they can't find anything else that fits.

It's the same way preterists try to explain "this generation" verse. 

 

In the same verse you underlined, read it in context, especially the verse right before. He says something that doesn't fit with transfiguration.

Which is, coming with angels and then judging the world. (All before that generation - the people standing their die). 

Not only that, but no where in the chapter does Jesus appear to refer to any sort of transfiguration. 

When Jesus did transfigure, they couldn't believe their eyes, they weren't expecting it. So why weren't they expecting it? because Jesus never told them it would happen. If He did, then He wouldn't have said, "Don't tell anyone what you have just seen". Because they would have already known.

Also in the transfiguration, standing and talking with prophets while glowing, would be a poor depiction of "coming in His kingdom". 

This is obviously the answer people have to give, because they have to find some event, that would have happened within 50-70 years. Which would entail Jesus coming. 

 

When I read this verse plainly. It plainly says, "I will come again, before you die or the first born of this generation."

Also another similar verse, Jesus says "Truly I tell you, you will not reach all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes."

So what could that mean, "the Son of Man comes", when he's already there? 

Or will you apply an answer like, Son of Man comes to regroup with them again. Then maybe Jesus has come over 1000 times, being every time He came into a new house, city or regrouped with a disciple. 

When ever it refers to Jesus coming, it refers to his second coming. So you can't give 10 different options for 1 statement. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by MyLordsServant

[JTC]

7 hours ago, MyLordsServant said:

I'm not going to fall for and have weak faith, behind a random option that barely fits. This is such an important verse, there is no room to play on words. 

M L S, whichever interpretation is best in your mind the most important thing is to not let it make your faith weak. Faith trumps knowledge in God's opinion. And God's opinion of each of us is what matters most.

IMO the word generation means the age of man. One can say God generated the age of mankind.

The time factor for the return of Jesus disturbed me for over 30 yrs. One day a verse I knew well almost jumped off the page at me. 2 Peter 3:8 "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day." No one really wants to take this literally. But if it is literal Jesus only left a little over 2 days ago. Giving Him 5 days to get back isn't unreasonable. (but no one wants to buy this anymore than the apostles would have liked knowing He'd still be gone after 2000 earth years) God is timeless because by being immortal time has no meaning. But suppose in God time 1 of our days really i 1/1000th of God years. It boggles our minds and we don't want it to be true. But it does make sense. I also have an unorthodox explanation on why it's taking this long which also explains why Jesus didn't know when He'd return. I am not at all sure of it so I never told it. But again it makes sense, at least to me.

As for some seeing Jesus coming in His glory I buy the Transfiguration incident as the fulfillment of that prediction.

Remember, you're right to not buy an idea that will weaken your faith. For all you know someday God may gave you a special revelation concerning a burning question you've had for decades. Many of us have had these, they aren't rare. ? 

[Adstar]

17 hours ago, discipler777 said:

.

LUKE.17:20 (NKJV) = 20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, “The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you.”

.

ROMANS.14:17 =  17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

.

JOHN.14:15-24 = Jesus Promises Another Helper

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Indwelling of the Father and the Son

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me.Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”

23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

.

ACTS.2:1-4 = Coming of the Holy Spirit

2:1 When the Day of Pentecost had fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

.

So, the "some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom” was likely referring to the Spirit'ual(= invisible) Coming of Jesus Christ to earth to  indwell His apostles, disciples and believers from ACTS.2 onward, as had been prophesied by Him at JOHN.14:15-24. This is different from the physical(= visible) Coming of Jesus Christ/God-in-the-flesh to earth, eg the 2nd Coming/Advent of Jesus Christ to earth to resurrect/rapture His people/believers and exact His vengeance upon unbelievers/mockers/persecutors at MATTHEW.24:29-31 and 1THESSALONIANS.4:16-17.

.

This is the Answer

[R. Hartono]

Holy Spirit was sent to the early church on the Pentecost day as evidence that Jesus has come to His kingdom ini heaven, and He Will return to bring His reward on the end of Times