What Caused A No Show Of Christ

[frienduff thaylorde]

Let the title of this thread now say ,  THESE THINGS will bring the wrath of GOD .

For its for these very things that the wrath of GOD will come upon the children of disobedience . THEREFORE embrace it not , nor call it love ,  BE NOT a partaker of their sins .

Let no man deceive you with vains words , saying This is love lets honor these things .  NOPE ,  its because of these things that the wrath of GOD will come .

And if we would bother to open the bible and read the examples of what happened to nations who did such things .  OR religious ones who honored such things,

WE would see GODS wrath did come in at least partial measure everytime .   Now those things were written for our admonition , our learning

SO that we would not DO such things.  BUT today the leaders cause the people to err from bad to worse by speaking of an all inclusive God that is well pleased etc  etc .

The day of the LORD really will come as a theif in the night , and the world and all of it ,  Are never even gonna suspect the DAY WAS EVEN NEAR .

For they see not the signs of the times , they see and hear only this , PEACE , WORLD PEACE,  AND UNITY , OH LET US GATHER WE SHALL HAVE PEACE .

BUT they will not , the DAY of the LORD will end their festival , for when they shall say ALAS ,  peace and safety ..........KABOOOOOM    TRAVIAL TIME , wrath will come .

So lets get busy , PONTING to JESUS , HIS sayings , the apostels sayings ,  and instructing all to do so . 

[Heleadethme]

On 12/23/2018 at 1:32 PM, Larry H said:

What Caused A No Show Of Christ

Greetings

Many evangelist are suggesting that the signs of the times is evidence that Christ and The Kingdom of God will come soon and hopefully while there still alive. I call that The  Newspaper Gospel for theologians who read the Newspaper first, and find a scripture to fit the event. And by same has caused a no show of Christ to those who look for ammunition to discredit the Word of God. So I presented the concept in an E-mail  exchanged years ago to a friend. This is what I got.

Larry

I think that the bottom line is that people refuse to believe, because they have to see it to believe it. I'm reminded of what Jesus said in Luke 17:20-21.

Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst. *or among you

Jesus said to them that people wouldn't be able to point to it and say that it's over here or over there. In other words, it's not an observable kingdom. And yet, what are Christians "looking for" today? They, like the Pharisees, want to be able to point to it and say that it's here! If it were an observable kingdom, then Larry everyone would believe. Mark

I believe Preterism for many has solved the problem by provide evidence in scripture that said many prophecies were fulfilled in the first century.

The kingdom of heaven is already within us.........and Christ in us is the hope of glory........but remember that what is in us thus far is only the deposit/earnest of what is coming, and like a seed it is going to grow, I believe suddenly.  Just as the scripture that talks about the tiny mustard seed of faith grew into the largest tree and the birds came and nested in its branches...this is a picture of the coming kingdom and millennial reign of Christ.  As well as in Daniel where he speaks of the stone that grew until it filled the whole earth as a mountain.  What is in His true sheep is going to increase.....sometime at or near His coming.  We do have it in us already, the seed/deposit of the Spirit, the kingdom (rule of Christ)......but we haven't seen the fullness of it, fully grown....yet.

We have already been told there would be mockers in the last days saying where is the promise of His coming.  His coming will be like lightening that lights up the sky from east to west......and every eye will see Him.  The prophecies and parables that speak of His coming and the millennial kingdom have not been fulfilled yet.......but they are going to be.

[Larry H]

3 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

The kingdom of heaven is already within us.........and Christ in us is the hope of glory........but remember that what is in us thus far is only the deposit/earnest of what is coming, and like a seed it is going to grow, I believe suddenly.  Just as the scripture that talks about the tiny mustard seed of faith grew into the largest tree and the birds came and nested in its branches...this is a picture of the coming kingdom and millennial reign of Christ.  As well as in Daniel where he speaks of the stone that grew until it filled the whole earth as a mountain.  What is in His true sheep is going to increase.....sometime at or near His coming.  We do have it in us already, the seed/deposit of the Spirit, the kingdom (rule of Christ)......but we haven't seen the fullness of it, fully grown....yet.

We have already been told there would be mockers in the last days saying where is the promise of His coming.  His coming will be like lightening that lights up the sky from east to west......and every eye will see Him.  The prophecies and parables that speak of His coming and the millennial kingdom have not been fulfilled yet.......but they are going to be.

Acts 2:14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.

15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning!

16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

What last days was Peter referring to.

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Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 

28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

All these men in the crowd are dead now, how and when could them have witnessed this event 

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Hebrews 10:37 For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay. 

If we were the ones reading this letter to the Hebrews penned in the first century, what would we think. 

[discipler777]

On 12/24/2018 at 2:32 AM, Larry H said:

What Caused A No Show Of Christ

.

The Lord/God Jesus Christ has shown up on earth Spirit'ually or invisibly since the beginning of God's Creation at GENESIS.1.(JOHN.1:1-2)  He is the same yesterday, today and forever.(HEBREWS.13:8)

But physically and Personally or visibly, Jesus Christ has shown up on earth only during His 1st Coming to earth at around 0AD-33AD, in order to die on the Cross and save believers from hell. He will show up again during His 2nd Coming to earth to rapture/deliver believers into the clouds(1THESSALONIANS.4:16-17) and exact God's vengeance upon the remaining unbelievers, sinners, persecutors and mockers left on earth during the 7-year Great Tribulation period, eg .......

 

2THESSALONIANS.2:1-12 (NKJV) = The Great Apostasy

2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

.

Edited January 1, 2019 by discipler777

[Heleadethme]

5 hours ago, Larry H said:

Acts 2:14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.

15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning!

16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

What last days was Peter referring to.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 

28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

All these men in the crowd are dead now, how and when could them have witnessed this event 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hebrews 10:37 For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay. 

If we were the ones reading this letter to the Hebrews penned in the first century, what would we think. 

Prophecies often have more than one fulfillment......I believe the Joel 2 prophecy will have another fulfillment when the persecuted church of that time will receive the 'balance owing' of the Spirit.  And when the Lord speaks He is often saying more than one thing at once.....He has a voice of many waters.....in one of the Psalms it says, "one thing has God spoken, two things have I heard, that you o Lord are mighty"(paraphrasing Ps.62:11)  (mighty/powerful means powerful in the spirit....He speaks in the spirit in the spirit in other words, thus able to be speaking more than one thing at a time.)

Regarding where Jesus prophesied of those who would not taste death is referring both to His coming with the outpouring of His Spirit, but also He was looking down the corridors of time foreseeing and touching on some who would also be standing in that very spot in the future, who would be alive and remain at His second coming.

1Th 4:15

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, (there's no arguing with this,) that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Heb 9:26-28

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

The early church didn't know the end time would last for more than two thousand years, they were looking for His return imminently.....but it is as Jesus said no man knows the day nor the hour......and  we must not be as those who count His longsuffering as slackness and having no need of urgency:

2Pe 3:8-10

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

And nor are we to be like those who think Jesus still wont' come for a long time yet, thus having an evil attitude that we have plenty of time to worry about living righteously:

Mat 24:48-51

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

Edited January 1, 2019 by Heleadethme

[Steve_S]

On 12/23/2018 at 12:32 PM, Larry H said:

Jesus said to them that people wouldn't be able to point to it and say that it's over here or over there. In other words, it's not an observable kingdom. And yet, what are Christians "looking for" today? They, like the Pharisees, want to be able to point to it and say that it's here! If it were an observable kingdom, then Larry everyone would believe.

The problem with the underlined statement is that the premise is incorrect. There was an observable kingdom in the first century, it just wasn't the expected observable kingdom and even if it were, it wouldn't have mattered.

Luk 16:30  And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 
Luk 16:31  But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' " 

A great many people who watched Christ perform miracles, including raising people from the dead, did not believe. Not only, but even in spite of the fact that Jesus Himself rose from the dead, they did not believe.

Mat 28:11  Now while they were going, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all the things that had happened. 
Mat 28:12  When they had assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, 
Mat 28:13  saying, "Tell them, 'His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept.' 
Mat 28:14  And if this comes to the governor's ears, we will appease him and make you secure." 
Mat 28:15  So they took the money and did as they were instructed; and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day. 

The Sanhedrin was well aware that Christ had been resurrected, just as He'd said He would be. What was their response? Faith? No. Their response was to attempt a cover up.

Jesus performed a great many signs (including raising a man who had been dead four days - to which the answer of the leadership in Jerusalem was a plot to kill Lazarus himself). Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies.

The multitude in Jerusalem observed the kingdom themselves.

Joh 12:12  The next day a great multitude that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 
Joh 12:13  took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out: "Hosanna! 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!' The King of Israel!" 

Not only did they observe it, they declared it. A few days later, their response was to call for His crucifixion.

On 12/23/2018 at 12:32 PM, Larry H said:

I believe Preterism for many has solved the problem by provide evidence in scripture that said many prophecies were fulfilled in the first century.

If the problem mentioned here is the idea that an observable kingdom would lead to faith of all who see it, then that premise itself is the problem.

[Marlene S]

I read the posts here and it is plain to see that people are using different Bibles with different words. The original post quoted that Jesus said the kingdom is 'among you'. Personally, in all my life, I have never heard that interpretation. I have always believed that Jesus said that 'the Kingdom is inside of you and outside of you.'

There are so many Bibles out there. Did you know that an individual can copyright the Bible? Yes, they can when the change more that ten percent of the content. Think about that for a minute.

I have a few Bibles, but they are all Authorized King James Versions. I also have a copyrighted version, only because the Apocrypha is included (14 additional books). I apologize for going off topic a bit, but have you ever wondered what happened in Israel between Malachi and Matthew, almost 500 years missing from the Bible and how many of us actually seek to find those missing years. So much needed spiritual knowledge have been kept from us in order to blind and confuse us.

The kingdom is inside of you and outside of you... Who are we really? Sons of God. M.

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

11 hours ago, Larry H said:

Acts 2:14 Then Peter stood up with the Eleven, raised his voice and addressed the crowd: "Fellow Jews and all of you who live in Jerusalem, let me explain this to you; listen carefully to what I say.

15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It's only nine in the morning!

16 No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:

17 "'In the last days, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

What last days was Peter referring to.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 

28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

All these men in the crowd are dead now, how and when could them have witnessed this event 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hebrews 10:37 For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay. 

If we were the ones reading this letter to the Hebrews penned in the first century, what would we think. 

That the LORDS coming was nigh .

But youknow what the last generation will think .   Things like preterism , Things like OH HE aint coming back .

THIS GENERATION will see the wrath OF GOD , JESUS ,  they never thought was coming back again

But instead forget HIS PROMISE .   THAT HE WILL RETURN to gather his own and to lay down the wrath.

AND don't forget this etiher .   IF they shall say  he is here ,   oh the messiah of world peace has come ,  DONT BELIEVE THEM . IT WILL BE ANTI CHRIST .

This all inclusive peace and unity talk , this big gathering ,  ITS ONLY THE FALLING AWAY .  IT aint no big end time latter rain .

And folks are forgetting what grace truly is ,  Not only does it teach us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts , but also to be living soberly , righteously and godly

AS ,   AS , AS we await THE COMING OF OUR LORD.  YOU KNOW .  HIS PROMISE .   but damnable heresays like preterism have trod JESUS Under foot .

THEY MAKE JESUS OUT to be a liar . MIGHT as well call him a LIAR .   CAUSE HE SAID HE WOULD COME BACK FOR HIS CHURCH .  and preterism says its all in the past .

Every preterist needs to be honest .   GO call JESUS a liar ,  cause in heart they already do .

THEY say Their is no rapture .  THEY MAKE JESUS , GOD A LIAR .  BUT  I hold with the worlds of paul , LET every man be a liar , BUT EVERY WORD OF GOD TRUE .

Edited January 1, 2019 by frienduff thaylorde

[Larry H]

14 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Prophecies often have more than one fulfillment......I believe the Joel 2 prophecy will have another fulfillment when the persecuted church of that time will receive the 'balance owing' of the Spirit.  And when the Lord speaks He is often saying more than one thing at once.....He has a voice of many waters.....in one of the Psalms it says, "one thing has God spoken, two things have I heard, that you o Lord are mighty"(paraphrasing Ps.62:11)  (mighty/powerful means powerful in the spirit....He speaks in the spirit in the spirit in other words, thus able to be speaking more than one thing at a time.)

Regarding where Jesus prophesied of those who would not taste death is referring both to His coming with the outpouring of His Spirit, but also He was looking down the corridors of time foreseeing and touching on some who would also be standing in that very spot in the future, who would be alive and remain at His second coming.

1Th 4:15

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, (there's no arguing with this,) that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Heb 9:26-28

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

 

The early church didn't know the end time would last for more than two thousand years, they were looking for His return imminently.....but it is as Jesus said no man knows the day nor the hour......and  we must not be as those who count His longsuffering as slackness and having no need of urgency:

2Pe 3:8-10

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

And nor are we to be like those who think Jesus still wont' come for a long time yet, thus having an evil attitude that we have plenty of time to worry about living righteously:

Mat 24:48-51

But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

 

Quote

in one of the Psalms it says, "one thing has God spoken, two things have I heard, that you o Lord are mighty"(paraphrasing Ps.62:11)  (mighty/powerful means powerful in the spirit....He speaks in the spirit in the spirit in other words, thus able to be speaking more than one thing at a time.

I agree and only if it is clearly spoken in scripture.

Here are the two things without paraphrasing about God in the verse, strong and loving.  The only thing I see is two attributes of God.

Psalms 62:11 One thing God has spoken, two things have I heard: that you, O God, are strong,

12 and that you, O Lord, are loving. Surely you will reward each person according to what he has done.

For example and clarity

Considering when reading someone else's  mail, were the first century Jewish Christians living in the last days of the Old Covenant dispensation.

Hebrews 1:1:1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways,

2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

 

[Larry H]

11 hours ago, Steve_S said:

The problem with the underlined statement is that the premise is incorrect. There was an observable kingdom in the first century, it just wasn't the expected observable kingdom and even if it were, it wouldn't have mattered.

Luk 16:30  And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 
Luk 16:31  But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' " 

A great many people who watched Christ perform miracles, including raising people from the dead, did not believe. Not only, but even in spite of the fact that Jesus Himself rose from the dead, they did not believe.

Mat 28:11  Now while they were going, behold, some of the guard came into the city and reported to the chief priests all the things that had happened. 
Mat 28:12  When they had assembled with the elders and consulted together, they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, 
Mat 28:13  saying, "Tell them, 'His disciples came at night and stole Him away while we slept.' 
Mat 28:14  And if this comes to the governor's ears, we will appease him and make you secure." 
Mat 28:15  So they took the money and did as they were ins

Quote

 

tructed; and this saying is commonly reported among the Jews until this day. 

The Sanhedrin was well aware that Christ had been resurrected, just as He'd said He would be. What was their response? Faith? No. Their response was to attempt a cover up.

Jesus performed a great many signs (including raising a man who had been dead four days - to which the answer of the leadership in Jerusalem was a plot to kill Lazarus himself). Jesus fulfilled hundreds of prophecies.

The multitude in Jerusalem observed the kingdom themselves.

Joh 12:12  The next day a great multitude that had come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 
Joh 12:13  took branches of palm trees and went out to meet Him, and cried out: "Hosanna! 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!' The King of Israel!" 

Not only did they observe it, they declared it. A few days later, their response was to call for His crucifixion.

If the problem mentioned here is the idea that an observable kingdom would lead to faith of all who see it, then that premise itself is the problem.

 

Quote

 

the problem with the underlined statement is that the premise is incorrect. There was an observable kingdom in the first century, it just wasn't the expected observable kingdom and even if it were, it wouldn't have mattered.

Luk 16:30  And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' 
Luk 16:31  But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.' "

 

Good point, however if it were a physical kingdom as the majority of Christian believe in our future, and Christ the king ruled over the world, then there would be nothing not to believe. It would be rather evident. The point of the email I think was to show the kingdom is only spiritual in nature. And we are living in it now with all its blessing, the victory is over.