What Caused A No Show Of Christ

[Heleadethme]

On 1/2/2019 at 12:11 AM, Larry H said:

 

Good point, however if it were a physical kingdom as the majority of Christian believe in our future, and Christ the king ruled over the world, then there would be nothing not to believe. It would be rather evident. The point of the email I think was to show the kingdom is only spiritual in nature. And we are living in it now with all its blessing, the victory is over.

Yes and no brother.....Satan is a defeated foe but still needs convincing of it so to speak.....there is still more to come, that needs to be apprehended.  God is gathering all to a great spiritual battle that He will win.  Some pretty cataclysmic things have yet to happen.

Heb 2:8

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

 

Rom 8:23-24

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

 

2Co 1:21-22

Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,

set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

 

2Co 5:4-5

For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

[Larry H]

14 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Yes and no brother.....Satan is a defeated foe but still needs convincing of it so to speak.....there is still more to come, that needs to be apprehended.  God is gathering all to a great spiritual battle that He will win.  Some pretty cataclysmic things have yet to happen.

Heb 2:8

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

 

Rom 8:23-24

And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

 

2Co 1:21-22

Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us,

set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

 

2Co 5:4-5

For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.

I kind of see it this way, simply said its all about Covenants, and what the New Covenant would provide for believers. It all took place in the first century. "guaranteeing what is to come" 

Those letter were  penned during  the transitional period of 40 years between the cross and the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70. The Christians were looking forward to those blessing brought about by  a realized New Covenant, after the termination  of the Old Covenant. 

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear
 

This is what the first century Christians were expecting. It was the Parousia mentioned in Matthew 24:1-3

 

The following is not a detailed explanation of the verses above, just laying down some ground work for clarity.

 

Luke 21:20 "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near

21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

Luke 21:32 "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

 

James and the writer of Hebrews believed.

 

James 5:7 Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop and how patient he is for the autumn and spring rains.

8 You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near.

 

Can it be that James was trying to keep the brothers on their toes. Or was James exception wrong, or did he flat out lie. Or did Christ come as He said He would. 

 

Hebrews 10:37 For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay.

[Larry H]

23 hours ago, discipler777 said:

.

Being born-again of the Spirit when a person comes into faith in Jesus Christ is very different from being resurrected by the Spirit of God  after a believer dies on earth physically. Are you also saying that Jesus Christ was not resurrected.?

Preterists seem to be mixing up the physical and Spirit'ual wrt the kingdom of God and resurrection.

The Lord/God Jesus Christ has been abiding Spirit'ually or invisibly in the hearts of Christian-believers who listen or heed His Word/Law/commandments(JOHN.14:15-24) = "the kingdom of God is within you."  The Lord/God Jesus Christ will be coming back again to earth physically or visibly, to resurrect/rapture His believers into the clouds and exact vengeance upon unbelievers left on earth.(1THESS.4:16-17)

After the 7-year Great Tribulation for unbelievers when the earth will be destroyed, .(REV.21:1 & 20:4, ISAIAH.2:4He will then create a new earth for His people to live peacefully and joyfully in the new Millennium & 11:6 & 65:25) In the end, the Book of Life will then be opened to judge believers and unbelievers. This will usher in the actual kingdom of God in heaven for believers who will then be able to see God the Father face-to-face.(cf EXODUS.33:20, JOHN.1:18 & 5:37).

.

JOHN.18:36 (NKJV) = 36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.”

.

Quote

Being born-again of the Spirit when a person comes into faith in Jesus Christ is very different from being resurrected by the Spirit of God  after a believer dies on earth physically. Are you also saying that Jesus Christ was not resurrected.?

No

Quote

Preterists seem to be mixing up the physical and Spirit'ual wrt the kingdom of God and resurrection

How so, it is just a statement.

I believe it's the other way around in some places. For example

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea

If we take this verse literally we have a New earth with no sea,  [that is not possible ]  Or we can say the New Heavens and New earth are literal, but the sea represents/spiritually something. That would mean we are mixing the physical with the spiritual.  Which is the claim that the preterist do.    Or on the other hand if we take the whole verse spiritually representing something, there is no mix up at all.

With that said there are verses in the Old Testament which uses the heavens and earth idiom representing something that God's chosen at that time understood.

Quote

Great Tribulation for unbelievers when the earth will be destroyed

Where does the bible, what verse, mention the Great Tribulation, and how is it possible for a people to live with no pain. Rev. 21:4 Wouldn't that be disastrous to have no feelings human kind were built with for their own protection. Like a 4 year old touching mom's stove.

[discipler777]

14 minutes ago, Larry H said:

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea

If we take this verse literally we have a New earth with no sea,  [that is not possible ] 

MATTHEW.19:26 (NKJV) = 26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

[Heleadethme]

6 hours ago, Larry H said:

I kind of see it this way, simply said its all about Covenants, and what the New Covenant would provide for believers. It all took place in the first century. "guaranteeing what is to come" 

Those letter were  penned during  the transitional period of 40 years between the cross and the destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70. The Christians were looking forward to those blessing brought about by  a realized New Covenant, after the termination  of the Old Covenant. 

Hebrews 8:13 By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear
 

This is what the first century Christians were expecting. It was the Parousia mentioned in Matthew 24:1-3

 

The following is not a detailed explanation of the verses above, just laying down some ground work for clarity.

 

Luke 21:20 "When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near

21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city.

22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written.

Luke 21:32 "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

 

James and the writer of Hebrews believed.

 

James 5:7 Be patient, then, brothers, until the Lord's coming. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop and how patient he is for the autumn and spring rains.

8 You too, be patient and stand firm, because the Lord's coming is near.

 

Can it be that James was trying to keep the brothers on their toes. Or was James exception wrong, or did he flat out lie. Or did Christ come as He said He would. 

 

Hebrews 10:37 For in just a very little while, "He who is coming will come and will not delay.

Larry, I'm not sure but is it possible that the word "parousia" is being confused with the word "paraclete" (helper/comforter/advocate)?  Just in case here is a link to definition of the parousia.......it's useful to check the various biblical usages of the word at the bottom of the page:   https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3952&t=KJV

And this is a link to the word "paraklete" and again we can see the biblical useages of that word at the bottom of the page:   https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3875&t=KJV 

It's also useful to keep in mind that Jesus is often speaking prophetically, in spirit....speaking on more than one level at once, as it were, so we need to likewise apprehend it by the Spirit....we need the Holy Spirit to help us rightly divide what is being said.  Yes, Jesus has already come by His Spirit....but the epistles were written after the Holy Spirit had already been given as recorded in the book of Acts.  Jesus is also coming again in like manner as the disciples saw Him go up.

Anyway, I will leave it here, and hope you find the links to be of use.

 

[Heleadethme]

5 hours ago, Larry H said:

No

How so, it is just a statement.

I believe it's the other way around in some places. For example

Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea

If we take this verse literally we have a New earth with no sea,  [that is not possible ]  Or we can say the New Heavens and New earth are literal, but the sea represents/spiritually something. That would mean we are mixing the physical with the spiritual.  Which is the claim that the preterist do.    Or on the other hand if we take the whole verse spiritually representing something, there is no mix up at all.

With that said there are verses in the Old Testament which uses the heavens and earth idiom representing something that God's chosen at that time understood.

Where does the bible, what verse, mention the Great Tribulation, and how is it possible for a people to live with no pain. Rev. 21:4 Wouldn't that be disastrous to have no feelings human kind were built with for their own protection. Like a 4 year old touching mom's stove.

Creation itself will put on immortality....new heavens and new earth will have a new nature, a spiritual eternal quality.....and this has obviously not happened yet.  Bear in mind also that Romans 8 was clearly written after the Holy Spirit has been given, after Jesus had indeed come by His Spirit, but not yet in like manner as He was seen going up.

Rom 8:16

The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God:

and if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified with him.

For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed to us-ward.

For the earnest expectation of the creation waiteth for the revealing of the sons of God.

For the creation was subjected to vanity, not of its own will, but by reason of him who subjected it, in hope

that the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the liberty of the glory of the children of God.

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

 

And not only so, but ourselves also, who have the first-fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for our adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

For in hope were we saved: but hope that is seen is not hope: for who hopeth for that which he seeth?

But if we hope for that which we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

And in like manner the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity: for we know not how to pray as we ought; but the Spirit himself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered;

and he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

[Larry H]

9 hours ago, discipler777 said:

MATTHEW.19:26 (NKJV) = 26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Even this one?

Revelation 21:2 saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Will it be this size

Revelation 21:16 When he measured it, he found it was a square as wide as it was long; in fact it was in the form of a cube, for its height was exactly the same as its other dimensions-1,500 miles each way.

 What Albert Barnes has to say on this verse which to me seems to be right on.

Revelation 21:2

The idea of a city literally descending from heaven, and being set upon the earth with such proportions-three hundred and seventy miles high (Revelation 21:16), made of gold, and with single pearls for gates, and single gems for the foundations. No man can suppose that this is literally true, and hence this must be regarded as a figurative or emblematic description. Barnes

"This, of course, does not mean that this great city was "literally" to descend upon the earth, and to occupy any one part of the renovated world; but it is a symbolical or figurative representation, designed to show that the abode of the righteous will be splendid and glorious". Barnes' Notes

[Larry H]

5 hours ago, Heleadethme said:

Larry, I'm not sure but is it possible that the word "parousia" is being confused with the word "paraclete" (helper/comforter/advocate)?  Just in case here is a link to definition of the parousia.......it's useful to check the various biblical usages of the word at the bottom of the page:   https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3952&t=KJV

And this is a link to the word "paraklete" and again we can see the biblical useages of that word at the bottom of the page:   https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3875&t=KJV 

It's also useful to keep in mind that Jesus is often speaking prophetically, in spirit....speaking on more than one level at once, as it were, so we need to likewise apprehend it by the Spirit....we need the Holy Spirit to help us rightly divide what is being said.  Yes, Jesus has already come by His Spirit....but the epistles were written after the Holy Spirit had already been given as recorded in the book of Acts.  Jesus is also coming again in like manner as the disciples saw Him go up.

Anyway, I will leave it here, and hope you find the links to be of use.

 

Thanks for those links, it seems the word can be used in a verity of ways. But I believe the bottom line is "presents". I once read it used for a king entering a country, and meeting its subjects to walk with  him into the land. I think this basically is where the concept of the Rapture comes in, accept they meet Him in the air. How the first century Christian understood the Rapture coming, I wasn't there. But you raised a good point, I will have to further look into it. I did an Englishmen's search and found the word is uses 22 times in the New Testament.

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)

παρουσία parousía, par-oo-see'-ah; from the present participle of G3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:—coming, presence.

[Heleadethme]

2 hours ago, Larry H said:

Thanks for those links, it seems the word can be used in a verity of ways. But I believe the bottom line is "presents". I once read it used for a king entering a country, and meeting its subjects to walk with  him into the land. I think this basically is where the concept of the Rapture comes in, accept they meet Him in the air. How the first century Christian understood the Rapture coming, I wasn't there. But you raised a good point, I will have to further look into it. I did an Englishmen's search and found the word is uses 22 times in the New Testament.

Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)

παρουσία parousía, par-oo-see'-ah; from the present participle of G3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:—coming, presence.

Bless you Larry...may the Lord lead His flock into all truth, as we rely on His Spirit, the paraclete/helper...amen. 

[Joulre2abba]

On 12/31/2018 at 11:35 AM, JTC said:

Yep I agree. I now look at this as 1000 of our yrs is 1 day to God. Therefore Jesus only left 2 days ago. Barely enough time to take a shower and put on a fresh robe

The two days that are left to be fulfilled are the 2000 years since the crucifixion of Christ. And the third day is the Millennium.