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Jews With Out Jesus


RevelationWriter

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What meant was that though born again, a citizen of heaven, Paul still considered himself a Roman and thus was sent to Rome to be judged. So currently our citizenship is earthly just as born again Jews. We do not renounce our earthly citizenship just because we accept a Christ neither do the Jews of whichever country they reside.

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On ‎1‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 12:21 AM, discipler777 said:

discipler777-- and along with this, don't they anticipate a forerunner?  An Elijah to precede the messiah they expect to arise from among them?

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8 hours ago, PepperS said:

The term messianic jew is an oxymoron by today's definitions. No matter what you are born as, when you accept Christ, you are a Christian.

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ACTS.15:18-29 (NKJV) 18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works. 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

The Jerusalem Decree

22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barnabas, and Silas, leading men among the brethren.

23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”—to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual[j] immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.

Farewell.

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ACTS.21:20-25 = 20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law. 

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”

.

There is a big difference between Jewish Christians/Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians wrt the Law of God.(cf ROMANS.11, HEBREWS.8:10-11)

God has liberated Gentile Christians from His non-essential or burdensome laws but not from His essential or non-burdensome laws, in order to do well on earth, ie not be unwell. In comparison, Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews are required by God to continue to keep His Law or Moses Law, as many laws as possible, because it is not a burden to them. 

Those who keep His Law/commandments/Word, either wholly or partially(JOHN.14:15-24 & 15:1-8) or unknowingly(= Greeks or Gentiles - ROMANS.2:5-16) will be blessed by God, ie will not be unwell on earth.

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15 hours ago, PepperS said:

The term messianic jew is an oxymoron by today's definitions. No matter what you are born as, when you accept Christ, you are a Christian.

If someone is born 'Jewish' do they somehow lose their Jewish identity if they believe in the Jewish Messiah?  The reason the term 'Messianic Jew' is used -- it's to differentiate the fact that they are Jews culturally and yet believe in the Jewish Messiah.   :) 

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55 minutes ago, George said:
1 hour ago, discipler777 said:

There is a big difference between Jewish Christians/Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians wrt the Law of God.(cf ROMANS.11, HEBREWS.8:10-11)

God has liberated Gentile Christians from His non-essential or burdensome laws but not from His essential or non-burdensome laws, in order to do well on earth, ie not be unwell. In comparison, Jewish Christians or Messianic Jews are required by God to continue to keep His Law or Moses Law, as many laws as possible, because it is not a burden to them. 

Those who keep His Law/commandments/Word, either wholly or partially(JOHN.14:15-24 & 15:1-8) or unknowingly(= Greeks or Gentiles - ROMANS.2:5-16) will be blessed by God, ie will not be unwell on earth.

The problem I have with this line of thinking ... is the fact that you are differentiating and still creating a wall of separation between Jew and Gentile when in fact God is doing the opposite.

 Eph 2:12  remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 
Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 
Eph 2:14  For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 
Eph 2:15  by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 
Eph 2:16  and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 

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Yes, it is true that both Jews and Gentiles were saved from hell solely by faith in Jesus Christ, and not by the good works of the Law/commandments = both became the ONE body of Christ.

It is also true that to remain saved or not lose faith, Gentile Christians should not be required or compelled to go and live as Jews(= keep most of Moses Law = a heavy burden) and Jewish Christians/Messianic Jews should not be liberated or exempted to go and live as Gentiles(= mostly lawless). 

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GALATIANS.2:11-16 (NKJV) 11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, “If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

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16 hours ago, PepperS said:

I can think of three ways in which being a jew is defined.

1. racial lines, used by those who wish to malign a people. such as the Nazi's.

2, being descended from certain tribes of Israel.

3. one who practices Judaism,  either from birth or conversion

I will go with option 3. In this case, if one becomes a Christian, that is what they are...a Christian.

The term messianic jew is an oxymoron by today's definitions. No matter what you are born as, when you accept Christ, you are a Christian.

 

Why is the term “Messianic Jew” a contradiction in terminology? I could have used Christian Jew but chose the other. Those who have accepted Jesus have accepted the Messiah for whom they have longed. But a contradiction of terminology, not to me.

I prefer to use the term a Jew or Israeli because they are the people set aside by God the Father to be His. Many people hate the fact that they are “God’s Chosen people” but they are. Christian Jew or Messianic Jew no difference. But oxymoron, it is no contradiction.

Edited by Littlelambseativy
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8 hours ago, George said:

The problem I have with this line of thinking ... is the fact that you are differentiating and still creating a wall of separation between Jew and Gentile when in fact God is doing the opposite.

 Eph 2:12  remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 
Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 
Eph 2:14  For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 
Eph 2:15  by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 
Eph 2:16  and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. 

You have accepted Jesus as Saviour. The Jewish people have as I mentioned accepted the Messiah for whom they longed. 

An Apple has many varieties. But though all are apples they are Matsu Apples ir Ida Red Apples or Fuji Apples. All Apples but not the same in taste or sweetness. So Messianic Jew is no less a Christian than Christian American just a different country but not oxymoron according to your terminology.

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17 hours ago, PepperS said:

The term messianic jew is an oxymoron by today's definitions. No matter what you are born as, when you accept Christ, you are a Christian.

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Messiah (derived from Hebrew) = Christos (in Greek) = Christ (in English)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_(title)

Messianic Jews = Christian Jews  = Jewish Christians = Jews who accept or believe in Jesus the Christ/Messiah.

So, the term Messianic Jews is not an oxymoron. Similarly for Christian Gentiles, to whom Apostle Paul often referred to as Gentiles in his letters, eg GAL.2:11-14.

It is important to differentiate Jewish Christians from Gentile Christians who may not be circumcised, eating kosher/clean foods, keeping the proper hair-length or Sabbath-day, etc like the Messianic Jews or Jewish Christians and who may also remain as Gentile Christian smokers, alcoholics or drug-addicts(= not having been healed by God/Jesus).

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P S - YHWH (derived from Hebrew) = Theos (in Greek) = God (in English) = Allah (in Arabic)

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On 12/30/2018 at 9:52 AM, RevelationWriter said:

- So, Jews With Out Jesus

when their messiah comes everyone still dies. Great plan.

That isn't the plan. When Messiah comes at the Rapture to lift away the church, my Jewish people will mourn for their mistake and loss. When Messiah returns, the least of them will fight like David and all will be saved. Romans 11:26 says all left at that time will be saved!

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