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Jews With Out Jesus


RevelationWriter

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I have come to understand that "God" means different things to different people.

Saying 'the God of the bible" seems to narrow it done for Christian discussions.

Something I noticed in the first part of this discussion that has led us to different definitions of God is something that happens a lot, not just in this forum, but any time we talk about God.....

.....we forget that when we talk of biblical things we are talking about 2 realities that we live at the same time...

......a physical reality and a spiritual reality.

A person can be physically a Jew but spiritually a Christian.

Just as a person can be physically a Gentile but spiritually a Jew.

The bible uses the physical to describe the spiritual right from the get go, not just in the parables.

We often get confused with this and it is important that we learn to distinguish the two and clarify which we are talking about when there is confusion.

The following verses are a good example

Rom 2:28  For a person is not a Jew because of his appearance, nor is circumcision something just external and physical. 
Rom 2:29  No, a person is a Jew inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, brought about by the Spirit, not by a written law.

Eph 2:11  So then, remember that at one time you gentiles by birth were called "the uncircumcised" by those who called themselves "the circumcised." They underwent physical circumcision done by human hands. 
Eph 2:12  At that time you were without the Messiah, excluded from citizenship in Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise. You had no hope and were in the world without God. 

Edited by Mike 2
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I find it more than curious that when the Koran was translated into English the name “Allah” was used to stipulate the difference between the god of the Muslim and the God of the Jew/Christian, yet when we translate the Holy Bible into  another language we use the name of their god for our God. In The English translation it is Allah. In Greek is it Zeus? No that was not what Paul would have used...but we do. How confusing to a new Muslim convert to pray to the Allah of the Koran. I totally disagree and stand firm on it. 

Gis tild Moses when asked what His name was and God said “I AM” why not use the name of God in others texts as the Almighty “I AM” ? He was, is and ever shall be. 

In Hindu do we tell them to pray to Vishnu? or one of the other thousands ?  No, it is wrong to use the name Allah to replace the ALMIGHTY.

Edited by Littlelambseativy
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On 12/30/2018 at 8:52 AM, RevelationWriter said:

- So, Jews With Out Jesus

when their messiah comes everyone still dies. Great plan.

Are you Jewish?

Edited by JohnD
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By rights, the Creator could have washed his hands of the entire human race in Eden.

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On 1/16/2019 at 10:37 PM, Littlelambseativy said:

In Hindu do we tell them to pray to Vishnu? or one of the other thousands ? 

Vishnu is the specific / personal name of a specific deity.. so it is not used in Bibles.

However in at least one or more languages used in southern India.. where the vast majority of those using that language are hindus.. the word used for God in Bibles in that language.. is the same term as hindus and other non-Christians might also use.  This is because that particular word is a more general term and not a personal name.  This is a normal situation for Bibles in many languages.  

- so with regards to the arabic / Indonesian word.. the issue is whether or not the word is considered a general term.. or a personal name..

The word is generally used in a Christian context by Christians in malaysian Borneo and Indonesia  as a general term and not a personal name.  It is used in a Christian context rather similar to how the english word 'God' is used by english speaking Christians.  (And the english word 'God' is also not a name) .

The Indonesian word came from arabic.  The arabic word in turn existed long before a certain religion was founded.  The word pre-dates that religion.  Christianity also pre-dates that religion.  And the word might possibly have been used in a Christian contexts *before* that religion.  

- so it isn't simply Christians taking a word used by a certain religion.. but possibly the other way around..

 

With regards to malaysia and Indonesia.. the vast majority of Christians in malaysia and possibly Indonesia too.. have never been muslim. 

Also the word was used in translating Bible verses since hundreds of years ago.. it is not something new.

 

Sorry for long and off topic post.. but just wanted to explain.

My apologies to the OP. 

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Don’t mean to derail anything either however, I taught with a Hindu, whenever we spoke of God he totally agreed, and spoke of god  yet I knew his god was not the God to whom I prayed or of whom I spoke. That is why when the name of their deity is used in a Bible in their language or the Islamic language to refer to the One, Almighty I Am, it is wrong. To use Allah in place of The I Am, or Jehovah is confusing.

In reverse if the Muslims wrote the Koran in English (and yes I know it was) and used God in place of Allah, I would continue to worship “my God, Jehovah, the I Am.” in place of Allah who is the antithesis of my Lord, the I Am.....if that makes sense. But it uses Allah, yet we continue to use it also.

Perhaps it sounds as tho’ I am nit picking but I feel strongly about this. To continue to use Allah in the Christian Bible to the Muslim is as wrong as it is to use Vishnu ( one of the legion of Hindu gods) in a translation to the Hindu people.

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41 minutes ago, Littlelambseativy said:

yet I knew his god was not the God to whom I prayed or of whom I spoke. 

 Understood.  

But that in a sense is my point.  i.e  both of you were using the english language (I assume)  and therefore were using the same english word but meaning very different things / meaning / view etc.

It was just the word that happened to look the same.. the meaning was very different.. for you both.  

An english-speaking Christian might use the english word "God" to refer to the God of the Bible.. But an english speaking hindu or mormon (a cult) etc.. might use that english word to refer to whatever their religious beliefs happen to be..

Just because your colleague was using a similar word to you.. doesn't mean he was refering to the Christian meaning or beliefs.. 

And just because you were using a similar word to him.. does not mean you were refering to a hindu meaning or beliefs.  

It was just a word that looked the same that was used.  That's all.  Not the same meanings.

 

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1 hour ago, Littlelambseativy said:

That is why when the name of their deity is used in a Bible in their language 

hi

A few thoughts.

- Firstly it is not simply 'their' language.  Christians speak Indonesian (Bahasa Indonesia) and arabic etc.   It is the language of Christians too.

 - secondly.. As used by malaysian Borneo Christians and Indonesian Christians  in their Bibles etc ..it is not used as a name but rather as a general term /title i.e similar to the english word God.  That is how it is used by Christians regardless of how any non-Christians may or may not use the same word.  (Just as how even if an english speaking hindu uses the same english word as an english speaking Christian.. it does not mean that both are using the word the same way..)

- thirdly.. If I am not mistaken.. the majority of Christians in malaysian Borneo and possibly Indonesia too.. who use Bibles in languages which have that term.. were never muslims.  It is not confusing to them.

A different example might be english speaking mormons in say utah.. who convert and become Christians.  Mormonism also uses english words such as God and Jesus.  Yet the mormon  'version' is not who the Lord really is.  It is not the same as Christianity.  So a question one might ask is whether english speaking converts from mormonism to Christianity might initially be confused?  And if so does that mean ALL english speaking Christians in the usa need to change their own words or Bibles?

Sorry not meaning to cause any offence but was just trying to think of an example to explain what i meant

Thanks.

 

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So the  Muslim convert should continue to use the name Allah to refer to the God we serve? Allah and Jehovah are as far from one another as day is from night, right from wrong and love from hate, yet we tell the new Muslim to worship God by calling him Allah.

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The late David Breese held to the belief that in the afterlife the Jews get the Earth and the Christians get the Universe.

I don't hold to it.

I just put it out there for the theologopolis to consider / bandy about.

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