Is it right for a Christian to kill in self defence

[backontrack]

This is something that has bothered me for years!

I'm sure all churches now or most have undercover security guards among the congregation since the rise of violence against Christians and churches. The question I wrestle  with is killing a person to protect ones self? One reason I ask this is it forgivable?  It would be considered  murder right, taking another persons life. Rest assured I have never murdered anyone maybe in my mind or words as I think most have but I ask forgiveness when I have an evil thought no matter what it is.  I read all the time how Muslims murder and maim people in Africa and the middle east, makes no difference the faith religion seems killing is everywhere. Now here's my 64 dollar question! The world is becoming a more dangerous place to live drugs, gangs, rapes, child exploitation open borders and a list to long to list of evil. Should we arm ourselves with a fire arm, now don't come back at me and say arm myself with the word of God I have, if that's the case one thinks then why do we have security guards in churches. Should we just lay down our lives or protect ourselves?   

[Sower]

I see you have been a member since 06, backontrack. You must have seen some of the vast amounts of threads dealing with this topic/subject. Not hard to find. My opinion, is it is not always a sin to kill, especially in self defense or protecting the helpless or innocent. I believe it would be a sin NOT to protect someone who was helpless against an evil killer. Though shalt not murder. A different action. Murder is sin.
There will be many here agreeing, and some disagreeing, that any form of taking human  life is sin.
You may want to read how God has dealt in the past with the enemies of his people in scripture also.

[leah777]

Christians should do everything in their power to avoid killing, even in self defense.

[Mike 2]

Some might say that Jesus is saying not to use a weapon / not to defend yourself based on the following.

Mat 26:52  Jesus told him, "Put your sword back in its place! Everyone who uses a sword will be killed by a sword.

But how does that weight out against this........

 Rom 12:18  If possible, so far as it depends on you, live in peace with all people. 
Rom 12:19  Do not take revenge, dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath. For it is written, "Vengeance belongs to me. I will pay them back, declares the Lord." Rom 12:20  But "if your enemy is hungry, feed him. For if he is thirsty, give him a drink. If you do this, you will pile burning coals on his head." 
Rom 12:21  Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good. 

Is it possible to wield a weapon to stop an altercation but not go one step further and get revenge, to not kill someone that has just killed 6 people near and dear to you?

Is there a middle ground. I think the default is towards peace but if I have the ability to save the life of someone and won't because my religious belief tells me not to, should they die because of my religious belief? What does that say to them about my God? Now if I suffer for them, that's another story.

Keep in mind , in the garden it was Jesus, the victim, telling his defender, ' no I choose the path of suffering'. Peter did not impose that on Jesus.

Once the killing starts...how do we stop it? Definitely an ethical discussion.

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Mike 2

[HAZARD]

GOD INSTITUTED THE DEATH PENALTY.

We, as Christians should ask ourselves, Is the Death penalty lawful in this age? Do men have the right to change the Law's of God? Does God condone the Death Penalty.

When God instituted human government by law after Noah's flood, He gave Noah certain laws by which to govern the human race, and man was then held responsible for self-government (Gen. 9:1-7).

There are six very important laws which God gave Noah and his decendants. These Laws were:

(1) "Be fruitful and multply, and replenish the earth" (Gen. 9:1, 7).

(2) "Into thine hand are they [animals] delivered" (Gen. 9:2).

(3) "Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have i given you all things" (Gen. 9:4).

(4) "The blood thereof shall ye not eat" (Gen. 9:4).

(5) "WHOSOEVER SHEDDETH MAN'S BLOOD, BY MAN SHALL HIS BLOOD BY SHED: for in the image of God made he him" (Gen. 9:5-6).

And last but not least;
(6) "I have established my covenant with you . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . FOR PERPETUAL GENERATIONS . . . the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the "EVERLASTING COVENANT" between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth" (Gen. 9:8-17).

These few laws have been the basis of all laws of God and man in every age since the flood of Noah.
It was at this time God constituted capital punishment, and God has never revoked this particular law, "Whosoever sheddeth man's blood, BY MAN shall HIS BLOOD BE SHED (Gen. 9:5-6)." This law will continue as an eternal law, and as is revealed in (Isiah 11:4-9; 65:20-25) it will be in force even during the Millennium.

That this law will be in force during the Millennium is plainly reaffirmed in (Rom. 13:1-6), in which the apostle Paul taught that even in this age of grace, law-enforcement officers are ordained of God, and that they are His ministers to bear "not the sword in vain" but that they are supposed to "execute wrath upon him that doeth evil."

It is totally necessary for human governments to punish criminals according to the crimes committed. Human governments are part of the moral government of God. That God has instituted human governments to help Him secure this end is not only clear in Gen. 9 and Rom. 13, but also in many other passages (Dan. 2:21; 4:17-25; 5:21; 1 Pet. 2:13-14).

All administrators of human government, when they rule contrary to the law of God will be punished in due time by God for mismanagement of their authority. God never sanctions selfish and wicked administration of authority, and if such continues long it will be overthrown. Men are under obligation to obey human government when, and as long as the requirements are not inconsistent with the moral law's of God.

Christians must always obey "every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the King, as supreem; or unto govenors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evil doers, and for the praise of them that do well. For such is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men" (1 Pet. 2:13-17).

Many Christians argue that it is sinful to partake in politics, that it is contrary to the Bible because human government is maintained by force, and that force is contrary with the spirit of the gospel. These are false theories. Human government was instituted by God as shown above, and Christians are commanded in the New Testament to pay taxes and otherwise support government (Rom. 13:1-7; 1 Pet. 2:13-17).

Some argue the commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" (Deut. 5:17), prevents government from administering capital punishment. The commandment "Thou shalt not kill" means exactly what it says, that men shall not kill any other human being; but, if man sheds another mans blood, in other words, if a man ignores Deut. 5:17, the everlasting covenant law, "whosoever sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed," comes into being.

This same principle applies to mobs, insurrections, rebellions, and all wars that endanger the best good of being and of the universe. It is the right of government and all of its subjects, to use every possible means to suppress all rebellion and wars, which are merely crime turned loose on a massive scale. That war is necessary under certain circumstances is clear from the fact that moral law permits it and God has commanded it. Earthly governments are God's ministers to execute law upon the ungodly and to preserve moral law and government for the good of all, and they are under obligation to make war, if this is the only way to preserve the best public good for all. We know that selfish and unjust war is wholesale murder and the administrators of such wars will be punished by God in due time.

God, in replenishing the human race after the flood of Noah instituted human government and capital punishment for serious crime involving murder. He has never changed this "everlasting covenant" and so, this is still God's will for men and human governments.

Edited January 9, 2019 by HAZARD
correct spelling error

[Mike 2]

Well said Hazard,

I just had a thought.......what if God had just left it at' thou shall not kill'.

Ultimately we are not to kill but there must be a provision for our weak and sinful state. Hence the order from God "Whosoever sheddeth man's blood, BY MAN shall HIS BLOOD BE SHED (Gen. 9:5-6) ( ....this was a very rudimentary and simple order given before the Mosaic Laws and it might be argued that it is not part of the following covenant to never flood the earth again)... that aside.....

If there is no law, there is no sin. If there is no consequence there is no reason to follow the law, particularly in the context of an unspiritual secular life.

Edited January 9, 2019 by Mike 2

[other one]

God did not say do not kill (at least in Hebrew), he said do not commit murder....   there is a difference.

[JustPassingThru]

When God said, whoever sheds mans blood, his blood shall be shed, that was way back in the time of swords, bow and arrows and knives, the commandment is not to commit murder, that is premeditated murder, God gave those innocent of premeditated killing of a person by providing cities of refuge, so..., if some gangbanger comes to kill me for a rite of initiation, or a serial killer, or any other premeditated reason to kill me and I kill them first in self defense, then I have fulfilled the law of God, ...only in reverse!

Jesus said if we think it in our mind we are guilty.

[backontrack]

4 hours ago, Sower said:

I see you have been a member since 06, backontrack. You must have seen some of the vast amounts of threads dealing with this topic/subject. Not hard to find. My opinion, is it is not always a sin to kill, especially in self defense or protecting the helpless or innocent. I believe it would be a sin NOT to protect someone who was helpless against an evil killer. Though shalt not murder. A different action. Murder is sin.
There will be many here agreeing, and some disagreeing, that any form of taking human  life is sin.
You may want to read how God has dealt in the past with the enemies of his people in scripture also.

Actually I have been away for over 10 years but did not see any thread on subject but did read news article on it. I have posted 2 threads the silent church and this on in 10 years. God had his men wipe out hole tribes!

Edited January 9, 2019 by backontrack

[backontrack]

4 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

Some might say that Jesus is saying not to use a weapon / not to defend yourself based on the following.

Mat 26:52  Jesus told him, "Put your sword back in its place! Everyone who uses a sword will be killed by a sword.

But how does that weight out against this........

 Rom 12:18  If possible, so far as it depends on you, live in peace with all people. 
Rom 12:19  Do not take revenge, dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath. For it is written, "Vengeance belongs to me. I will pay them back, declares the Lord." Rom 12:20  But "if your enemy is hungry, feed him. For if he is thirsty, give him a drink. If you do this, you will pile burning coals on his head." 
Rom 12:21  Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good. 

Is it possible to wield a weapon to stop an altercation but not go one step further and get revenge, to not kill someone that has just killed 6 people near and dear to you?

Is there a middle ground. I think the default is towards peace but if I have the ability to save the life of someone and won't because my religious belief tells me not to, should they die because of my religious belief? What does that say to them about my God? Now if I suffer for them, that's another story.

Keep in mind , in the garden it was Jesus, the victim, telling his defender, ' no I choose the path of suffering'. Peter did not impose that on Jesus.

Once the killing starts...how do we stop it? Definitely an ethical discussion.

 

I guess we must be like Jesus he did not lift one finger to his captors nor the people who took his life instead he said father forgive them for they do not know what they do.