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Is it right for a Christian to kill in self defence


backontrack

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6 hours ago, backontrack said:

This is something that has bothered me for years!

I'm sure all churches now or most have undercover security guards among the congregation since the rise of violence against Christians and churches. The question I wrestle  with is killing a person to protect ones self? One reason I ask this is it forgivable?  It would be considered  murder right, taking another persons life. Rest assured I have never murdered anyone maybe in my mind or words as I think most have but I ask forgiveness when I have an evil thought no matter what it is.  I read all the time how Muslims murder and maim people in Africa and the middle east, makes no difference the faith religion seems killing is everywhere. Now here's my 64 dollar question! The world is becoming a more dangerous place to live drugs, gangs, rapes, child exploitation open borders and a list to long to list of evil. Should we arm ourselves with a fire arm, now don't come back at me and say arm myself with the word of God I have, if that's the case one thinks then why do we have security guards in churches. Should we just lay down our lives or protect ourselves?   

The question itself is one that should not be entertained by believers in a forum like this as it plays into the hands of the enemy and can cause persuasion for or against.   We trust God and petition him to guide and protect us from the many daily things that we do like driving our cars and keeping us safe ect.  It is on the believer who reads the scripture and sees what it teaches us about our life journey here and how we are to live it to interpret that question that may pop into our minds.   

From country to country, there are many different situations that exist that may warrant a plan for the security and protection of a home and family.  Some live in gated communities that makes them feel safe and secure . It is the world today.  How then, that same believer who lives in that gated community is called to do missionary work in difficult places and would he be prepared to kill also to defend himself.  

The believer must come to truly understand that our battles is not with flesh and blood.   If a situation arises, it is there and then decisions would be made as some don't have the courage to kill. Only at the occurrence of the situation would actions be taken.  Many make and take precautions to safeguard their home and families and it is a natural thing to do.  How far does one go is how he see the gospel and how to live his life here on earth .  It is a matter of choice for every believer on whom they put their trust in for ALL matters of life. 

There is much talk of the Holy Spirit in the believers life.  What is his role, is it not to teach and guide us and to help us in our time of fear.  The devil would fire many of his darts, but it is the full armor of God we are to depend on. 

God sanctions governments and that constitutes armies.  So those who are serving in an army is not killing on a willful nature, but under lawful command.  The believer has to determine if he should serve in the army or not as to his spiritual conviction. 

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38 minutes ago, leah777 said:

If you had to draw on someone in self defense, would you try to not kill them if possible, or would you go for the fatal shot first?

 

I'm pretty sure a normal person (who doesn't have extensive military or law enforcement training and experience) put into a pressure situation such as that can't process information fast enough mentally to "try not to kill" or "not try to kill" someone. Life is not television - these things are usually over in seconds. In high stress situations with adrenaline pumping and so forth, normal people usually aim for the largest and easiest part of a person to hit, the torso, and that generally happens to be where most of the major organs reside.

Edited by Steve_S
Grammar.
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1 minute ago, Steve_S said:

I'm pretty sure a normal person (who doesn't have extensive military or law enforcement training and experience) put into a pressure situation such as that can't process information fast enough mentally to "try not to kill" or "not try to kill" someone. Life is not television - these things are usually over in seconds. In high stress situations with adrenaline pumping and so forth, normal people usually aim for the largest and easiest part of a person to hit, the torso, and that generally happens to be where most of the major organs reside.

sounds like a good reason not to carry a lethal weapon to me, including knives. 

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6 minutes ago, leah777 said:

sounds like a good reason not to carry a lethal weapon to me, including knives. 

I'm not sure one can make an argument that lethal weapons are biblically banned. Even the disciples had swords among them and Jesus did not rebuke them for having them either, indeed He asked specifically about them and seemed to want to ensure that they possessed them (though He did rebuke peter for using it to chop off someone's ear). In antiquity swords were not weapons used for hunting or for kitchen cutlery. It was probably a gladius, the roman short sword, and its sole purpose was to inflict damage on other humans. I'm not promoting the idea that Christians go around armed to the teeth, just stating that there is new testament mention of being armed for defense.

Luk 22:36  Then He said to them, "But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one
Luk 22:37  For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: 'AND HE WAS NUMBERED WITH THE TRANSGRESSORS.' For the things concerning Me have an end." 
Luk 22:38  So they said, "Lord, look, here are two swords." And He said to them, "It is enough.

Lest we make the assumption that Christ was speaking metaphorically about purchasing a sword, the disciples produced two physical swords and He told them that would do.

Even in the instance of Peter, the primary rebuke was not that Peter used it, but that He used it to attempt to prevent Christ's purpose (a purpose which in that moment peter did not understand).

Joh 18:10  Then Simon Peter, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus. 
Joh 18:11  So Jesus said to Peter, "Put your sword into the sheath. Shall I not drink the cup which My Father has given Me?

Mat 26:51  And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear. 
Mat 26:52  But Jesus said to him, "Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 
Mat 26:53  Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? 
Mat 26:54  How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?

 

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1 minute ago, PepperS said:

You didn't answer my earlier question: Should our military just get rid of their weapons?

you were asking me? it wasnt directed to me. I am talking about Christians, not governments. Governments can do what they like.

2 minutes ago, PepperS said:

In the book of Nehemiah, workers were told to be ready to defend themselves.

I already said about it being wrong since Jesus death. If you are going to jump on me, at least read what I say.

Seems like the people on this forum are all for killing first and asking questions later.

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2 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

I'm not sure one can make an argument that lethal weapons are biblically banned.

Didnt say they were. BUT if I carried a lethal weapon, knowing that in an emergency i would probably kill someone cos i dont have the training to respond defensively any other way, I would not carry one. The odds on me killing someone maybe by mistake are too high for my comfort zone.

Just like I would not drive a car if i wasnt a trained driver, apart from it being illegal I mean, but you get my drift.

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Just now, leah777 said:

Didnt say they were. BUT if I carried a lethal weapon, knowing that in an emergency i would probably kill someone cos i dont have the training to respond defensively any other way, I would not carry one. The odds on me killing someone maybe by mistake are too high for my comfort zone.

Just like I would not drive a car if i wasnt a trained driver, apart from it being illegal I mean, but you get my drift.

Killing in and of itself is not a sin. Murder is definitively a sin. There is a biblical distinction between the two going back to the torah. Even in the instance of centurions. They were never told to leave the military or not participate in battle, just not to mistreat others or misuse their authority. 

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1 minute ago, PepperS said:

I apologize for making you feel jumped on. That was not my intention. Disagreeing does not equal jumping on.

As a Christian, I have no trouble defending myself or my family. 

To say that we are for killing first and asking questions later is a bit ingenuous and very insulting. Of course, none of us want to kill anyone,

No insult intended.

My point: If I was not trained to use a lethal weapon in self defense under pressure, meaning the odds of a fatality are high, then I am not comfortable with that and, to me, if contravenes Thou Shall Not Kill as I know the chances of me killing are higher than the chances of me wounding. My choices, my decisions, my line not to be crossed. Just me. I would want to be sure I do not kill through my panic and lack of skill, when death could have been avoided.

I am not against self defense, or killing if I have to in self defense, as a very last resort. Thats why gun training is important if I am going to carry one I have to know to use it responsibly.

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4 minutes ago, PepperS said:

Perhaps you could have made it clear that gun training was your point before? 

gun training is not my point. I was responding to whoever it was saying how people who choose to carry guns will probably panic and kill someone instead of shooting to wound due to lack of training. I am replying that, if they choose to carry, they need to now what they are doing with it, given that carrying is for self defense in an emergency, isnt it?

edited; it was Steve_s - how do I earburn him?

Edited by leah777
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Just now, PepperS said:

 

 

Your words

My point: If I was not trained to use a lethal weapon in self defense under pressure,

 

In the end I respect your decision to do what you feel is right. Go with God.

Gotcha. Right. My bad

I was using 'I' like if I was the person Steve_s was talking about. Putting myself in their shoes

sorry for the confusion. This typing instead of talking stuff is hard. Will try to be clearer.

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