Mike 2 Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2019 6 hours ago, other one said: God did not say do not kill (at least in Hebrew), he said do not commit murder.... there is a difference. Sorry that was my misquote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.35 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Did JESUS defend himself . I WILL FOLLOW HIS FOOTSTEPS . no matter how mocked it is . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 hours ago, backontrack said: This is something that has bothered me for years! I'm sure all churches now or most have undercover security guards among the congregation since the rise of violence against Christians and churches. The question I wrestle with is killing a person to protect ones self? One reason I ask this is it forgivable? It would be considered murder right, taking another persons life. Rest assured I have never murdered anyone maybe in my mind or words as I think most have but I ask forgiveness when I have an evil thought no matter what it is. I read all the time how Muslims murder and maim people in Africa and the middle east, makes no difference the faith religion seems killing is everywhere. Now here's my 64 dollar question! The world is becoming a more dangerous place to live drugs, gangs, rapes, child exploitation open borders and a list to long to list of evil. Should we arm ourselves with a fire arm, now don't come back at me and say arm myself with the word of God I have, if that's the case one thinks then why do we have security guards in churches. Should we just lay down our lives or protect ourselves? Ultimately I would say this comes down to a matter of personal conviction. My entire life I have always stood up for others, those who could not or would not stand up for themselves. There was a time when I had no hesitation about dishing out violence in return, but I have come to a place in my life where I know this is not who God wants me to be any longer. I will still step in and protect others, but my days of giving it back are over. This is my personal conviction on the matter, and I do not pretend to know what God wants from others. Revelation 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear: 10 If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints. It seems to me from scripture, that there is a mixture of either camp even in the last days, every person among us should do the will of the Lord. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.35 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 hours ago, George said: A peculiar passage is found in Exodus ... Exodus 22:2-3 If a thief is found breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there shall be no bloodguilt for him, but if the sun has risen on him, there shall be bloodguilt for him. He shall surely pay. If he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft. So if a thief breaks into a house at night ... it seems that you are free from the bloodguilt if he dies, however it appears if it is DAY and the situation changes. This is the commentary from Keil & Deilzsch whom I consider the foremost commentators of the Hebrew. "Into the midst of the laws relating to theft, we have one introduced here, prescribing what was to be done with the thief. “If the thief be found breaking in (i.e., by night according to Exo_22:3), and be smitten so that he die, there shall be no blood to him (the person smiting him); if the sun has risen upon him (the thief breaking in), there is blood to him:” i.e., in the latter case the person killing him drew upon himself blood-guiltiness (דָּמִים lit., drops of blood, blood shed), in the former case he did not. “The reason for this disparity between a thief by night and one in the day is, that the power and intention of a nightly thief are uncertain, and whether he may not have come for the purpose of committing murder; and that by night, if thieves are resisted, they often proceed to murder in their rage; and also that they can neither be recognised, nor resisted and apprehended with safety” (Calovius). In the latter case the slayer contracted blood-guiltiness, because even the life of a thief was to be spared, as he could be punished for his crime, and what was stolen be restored according to the regulations laid down in Exo_22:1 and Exo_22:4. But if he had not sufficient to make retribution, he was to be sold “for his stolen,” i.e., for the value of what he had stolen, that he might earn by his labour the compensation to be paid." Just some passages to add to the discussion ... nothing more ... nothing less. So if a thief breaks into a house at night ... it seems that you are free from the bloodguilt if he dies, however it appears if it is DAY and the situation changes So lets be children OF the DAY and FOLLOW ONLY JESUS . He did not self defend , I will not self defend. No matter how mocked this is , I choose to follow CHRIST . Surprised . I mean as much as I warn all out against sin and wickedness and these major false mega church leaders , Still I desire no death for any . I believe I should only pray their forgivness. And to think , in short time folks like me WHO wont conform to SATANS unity move gonna be seen as nothing but dangerous fundamentalist . PONDER on that one for a bit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backontrack Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,213 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 185 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 hours ago, PepperS said: I know it's not good. I would only know if it happened I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backontrack Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,213 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 185 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 25 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said: So if a thief breaks into a house at night ... it seems that you are free from the bloodguilt if he dies, however it appears if it is DAY and the situation changes So lets be children OF the DAY and FOLLOW ONLY JESUS . He did not self defend , I will not self defend. No matter how mocked this is , I choose to follow CHRIST . Surprised . I mean as much as I warn all out against sin and wickedness and these major false mega church leaders , Still I desire no death for any . I believe I should only pray their forgivness. And to think , in short time folks like me WHO wont conform to SATANS unity move gonna be seen as nothing but dangerous fundamentalist . PONDER on that one for a bit . Wow kinda took a different direction from defending ones self to thief I more or less was thinking of end times and the evil one may encounter such as Muslims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backontrack Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,213 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 185 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, leah777 said: you were asking me? it wasnt directed to me. I am talking about Christians, not governments. Governments can do what they like. I already said about it being wrong since Jesus death. If you are going to jump on me, at least read what I say. Seems like the people on this forum are all for killing first and asking questions later. Wow please be kind I just post this thread out of things I had been thinking about for some time, God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backontrack Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,213 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 185 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, warrior12 said: The question itself is one that should not be entertained by believers in a forum like this as it plays into the hands of the enemy and can cause persuasion for or against. We trust God and petition him to guide and protect us from the many daily things that we do like driving our cars and keeping us safe ect. It is on the believer who reads the scripture and sees what it teaches us about our life journey here and how we are to live it to interpret that question that may pop into our minds. From country to country, there are many different situations that exist that may warrant a plan for the security and protection of a home and family. Some live in gated communities that makes them feel safe and secure . It is the world today. How then, that same believer who lives in that gated community is called to do missionary work in difficult places and would he be prepared to kill also to defend himself. The believer must come to truly understand that our battles is not with flesh and blood. If a situation arises, it is there and then decisions would be made as some don't have the courage to kill. Only at the occurrence of the situation would actions be taken. Many make and take precautions to safeguard their home and families and it is a natural thing to do. How far does one go is how he see the gospel and how to live his life here on earth . It is a matter of choice for every believer on whom they put their trust in for ALL matters of life. There is much talk of the Holy Spirit in the believers life. What is his role, is it not to teach and guide us and to help us in our time of fear. The devil would fire many of his darts, but it is the full armor of God we are to depend on. God sanctions governments and that constitutes armies. So those who are serving in an army is not killing on a willful nature, but under lawful command. The believer has to determine if he should serve in the army or not as to his spiritual conviction. The subject is a touchy one not meant to create alarm in anyone or intent harm to anyone nor trigger someone to do so, I am sorry if any of my words offended anyone. Now here is a question for you. (There is much talk of the Holy Spirit in the believers life. What is his role, is it not to teach and guide us and to help us in our time of fear. The devil would fire many of his darts, but it is the full armor of God we are to depend on. ) I wonder if 11 of the 12 had the full armor of God? and all those who were beheaded in the name of Allah! I think we are sheep led to the slaughter scary but all true will we cave in the last minute? Edited January 10, 2019 by backontrack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backontrack Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 139 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 1,213 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 185 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/10/2006 Status: Offline Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, PepperS said: There was a muslim community center near where I live that was attacked by a Christian mob a few years back. The place was burned down. Is this the kind 0f thing you were getting at? Sorta but in reverse I fill bad that Christians would do such a thing after all we are supposed to represent the king in Love. I would say these people we not Christian and living a lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warrior12 Posted January 10, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 53 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,412 Content Per Day: 0.88 Reputation: 1,508 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/05/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 10, 2019 23 minutes ago, backontrack said: The subject is a touchy one not meant to create alarm in anyone or intent harm to anyone nor trigger someone to do so, I am sorry if any of my words offended anyone. Now here is a question for you. (There is much talk of the Holy Spirit in the believers life. What is his role, is it not to teach and guide us and to help us in our time of fear. The devil would fire many of his darts, but it is the full armor of God we are to depend on. ) I wonder if 11 of the 12 had the full armor of God? and all those who were beheaded in the name of Allah! I think we are sheep led to the slaughter scary but all true will we cave in the last minute? The thing is really, when one wakes up in the morning, what does he offers up as to prayer to his maker. I hope it is not words in vain and then depending on his own strength to do the rest. Do we really believe that God can protect and keep us in situations, or that we have to be proactive as the saying goes and have our weapons of war ready in case. Gideon did not know that there were thousands that were with him in battle, cause he could not see them, but they are there. Hypothetical situations like the one by the OP is in my opinion not for the believer to dwell on, as he would be leaning on his own strength. The Lord is mighty and a tower to the Daniels in the Lions den. His hand is not to short. Those who trust in his shall not want and when the terrors of the night come rushing in, he is their shield,strength and buckler ,for those who believe in him. There is your answer. No one knows the day of tragedy and though we can take humanistic measures to avoid some situations and like the wise man build his house upon the rock. But can we be like the Stephen and willing to be stoned for telling the truth. The real question is, what about the enemy that you cannot see and who comes to war against you, what do you do in those situations, and what are your weapons of choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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