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Once Saved Always Saved Is It Scriptural

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“Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy”

 “…believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation…” [Charles Stanley]

This is one doctrine I probably cowardly avoided because some bible teachers that I truly respected and thought were very enlightening men and women believes this teaching. The belief that once a person in saved they could never lose their salvation, people like Charles Stanley, a man I saw as a great and insightful bible teacher. I really had no intention of addressing this doctrine but something happened to change that.  I was recovering from injuries I had received a couple of months earlier. In the later days of my recovery I had fallen into the habit of lying around with the TV remote in my hand searching for and watching my favorite TV programs; football and crime investigative documentaries, programs like Forensic Files and Snapped

 
This was the start of the football season and even though I don’t need to watch each and every game that’s televised I do like keeping up with what’s going on in the sport. I think that somewhere way in the back of my mind I believed that I had earned the right to just kick-back, me and my remote control and just relax. Well I was given time to do that and I recovered well, but I think I was trying to extend that beyond what was necessary. I was becoming lazy and complacent; I believe God was telling me I had licked my wounds long enough and it was time to get back to work. Man let me tell you I was trying to get out of that, I started reasoning in my mind, Lord you know that as young man I tried to stand even in the face of danger and many dirty looks to defend your name and honor, now I’m getting old, and tired.
 
I was trying all kind of ways to get out of putting down that remote control and getting back into the mix again. Now for those of you who may see this as a sign of weakness and say that any man who claim to be a servant of God would surely jump at the opportunity to serve God no matter the cost, let me remind you of a couple of servants of God. Now I’m not trying to equate myself with these powerful men of God, that would be insane! But to show that its different than just writing and publishing articles, now writing and publishing articles is a good thing and is definitely needed to help combat false doctrines that’s destroying souls in this end-time church of deception and lies. But in standing face to face, there you witness the dirty looks and hear the whisper, it’s a bit different, not knowing through whom and to what extent Satan will launch his next attack on your physical being.
 
Men like Abraham who God had to reassure again and again that no harm will come to you, I’ll be with you. Men like John the Baptist who just before his execution for a moment had questioned, was Jesus truly the messiah or are we to wait on another. The greatest man of all, the man Jesus the only begotten Son of God at the thought of what he was about to face He prayed [and what he had to face was the greatest trail of all] to his Father three times that if it were possible to take this cup from him. The one thing these men had in common was that they in the end faced their fears and through the power of God stood face to face with Satan and did the will of God. So, for any man to think that he would not at some points in this walk with God, in this battle against the powerful evil spirit being Lucifer who he knows is out to silence him, for any man to think that he is somehow different and would not feel this threat to his being is only fooling himself. He would at some point be asking the same question; Lord isn’t there some other way we can do this?
 
Just think about it, you’re in a crowded room full of people who are told just what they want to hear by the bible teacher, that once they come to Christ they can return to a life of sin and never lose their salvation. I tell you, that they are even more angry at you than the preacher or teacher is. You are in here questioning their right to live in the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of Hell at the same time, to serve two masters, to live in and serve hell and at the same time inherit the greatest gift of all; heaven! This has got to be the greatest “Prosperity Gospel” of them all.  You may be surprise how angry people get when you question their long-held beliefs, and the anger grows even greater when you began to prove through scripture that this is an un-scriptural belief. So, in these moments, being human you may ask the question; Lord isn’t there some other way we can do this?
 
After I realized there was no way out [actually I was driven out] of putting down that T V remote control, I found myself at the place I was supposed to be when I was supposed to be there. This involved a bible study group, this bible class was just beginning chapter one of the Book of Jonah. The book of Jonah discusses how God had instructed Jonah go to a certain place and do what the Lord had commanded him to do. Jonah decided he was having none of that, Jonah decided he was going to do things his way, kind of like me deciding that I needed to just kick-back with the T V remote control and football. After a while I must admit I recognized myself in the story of Jonah, again confirming that I was where I was supposed to be at that time.
 
As the bible class proceeded the students began to stray from the book of Jonah and began to ask leading question on the doctrine of “once saved always saved” leading the teacher to confirm that once you come to Christ you can live like Satan and still inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. After listening to this question and answer session for a bit, I asked the bible teacher a question just to make sure I was hearing him correctly. I asked the teacher; are you saying that once I come to Christ I can go and lay with all the women I desire, to and even become a serial killer and it will not affect my salvation? He answered; that’s right. I responded, false doctrine! Now I had never looked into this matter, but in the back of my mind I did questioned it, but since people I thought were enlighten teachers believe this doctrine I never bother to really go into it. But at that moment it made no sense to me whatsoever. 
 
Now my first thought was, did I just step in it? I had just denounced this very charismatic bible teacher’s teaching as false before a classroom full of people without even looking into the matter first. Because I really didn’t think before I answered him, all I knew is that at that moment it made no sense at all. But I was comforted with thought that I knew that I wasn’t here in this bible class by chance. So, the teacher goes on to explain the words of Paul of his freedom in Christ. But the teacher stopped short of explaining that Paul didn’t just leave that statement dangling out there like that. So, I went on to explain to the teacher that the church had twisted Paul’s words and used them as licenses to live in sin. The church had started living like the world, the church had become carnal minded and still believed they would inherit the Kingdom of Heaven as this “once saved always saved” teaches. O’ what a dangerous doctrine. 
 
In clearing this matter up Paul asked the question: shall I use my freedom in Christ as a license to live in sin. Paul answers his own question: no, God forbid! Not only does God forbid this type of conduct of the Christian, Paul says of the one who commits this blasphemous act that there is no more any forgiveness for that man seeing as how he has crucified the Lord a second time! Paul goes on to state that that man or woman is not only not forgiven, but there’s now only a dreadful expectation of the judgment and the destructive fire. No, Paul didn’t just leave that freedom in Christ thing just dangling out there like that. Doesn’t this very knowledgeable and charismatic teacher know this?
 
For if we sin [live in sin] willfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sin, but a certain dreadful expectation of judgment, and the rage of fire which shall consume the adversaries.” [Hebrews 10:26-27]
 
Now think on Paul’s words, Paul also states that there’s no forgiveness for those who crucified the Lord a second time, but for those who crucified the Lord the first time, the Lord asked His Father to forgive them. And why? Because they didn’t know what they were doing, they were deceived by the rulers and scribes of King Solomon’s Temple into believing that Jesus was indwelled by the spirit of Satan himself. The scribes and rulers of King Solomon’s Temple [the Synagogue of Satan] had falsely charged and condemned the Lord as a blasphemer which carries a mandatory sentence of death. They thought they were doing the right thing. God answered his Son’s request in the affirmative, because many of the very ones who were responsible for the Lord’s death was filled with the Holy Spirit at the Pentecost, about three thousand of them. But for the one who crucified the Lord a second time there is no forgiveness. why?
 
Before we can answer the question of why many of those who crucified the Lord the first time were forgiven and those who crucified the Lord a second time was unforgiven, according to Paul, and condemned to hell we need to take a look at the first crucifixion.  In the first crucifixion, they didn’t just take the Lord to the place called the Skull, Lucifer [Satan] wanted to make the Lord suffer first, to beat him, to spew out venom on him, to drag him through the streets naked, and in the end watch him hang on the cross and die a slow and painful death, to show his hatred for the Lord. Paul says the one who crucified the Lord a second time shows this same hatred for the Lord.
 
In the first crucifixion of the Lord by Satan, because of his hatred for the Lord Satan had him beaten beyond recognition, now how many blows it took to beat him to that point we don’t know. But according to Paul the man or woman who crucified the Lord a second time delivered the same amount of blows a second time, according to Paul’s statement. After Satan had the Lord beaten he spit on him, that’s what’s involved in the second crucifixion also, the man or woman who crucified the Lord a second-time spits on the Lord. After Satan spits on the Lord he now places a mock crown of thorns on his head and drives it into his skull. According to Paul the person who crucified the Lord a second time did the same thing to the Lord, that’s according to Paul. After Satan had done all these evil things to the Lord he then made the Lord, in his weaken condition, carry that heavy tree his place of execution, Skull Hill.
 
In the process of carrying that cross in his weaken condition the Lord feel three times, another had to help Jesus carry that cross. According to Paul the person who crucified the Lord a second time instead of picking up his cross and following Christ he trips the Lord three more times. The person who crucifies the Lord a second time does not pick up his cross and follow Christ, but instead trips the Lord and his cross and takes up with the enemy of the Lord, an act of high treason, the unforgivable sin. So, the man or woman that commits this sin of high treason is not forgiven because as was the case with Lucifer his new lord, he was not deceived by the rulers of King Solomon’s Temple, his was a willful act. He was once in the body of Christ, he had known the Lord, unlike the people of the Old Testament who was still awaiting the Lord’s arrival, John the Baptist had identified Jesus as the long-awaited messiah by this time and Jesus had proven to be that messiah.
 
This person who has crucified the Lord a second time knew the Christ, the Christ had been identified by this time, he knew that Christ had risen from the dead and was seated at the right hand of the Father, his was a willful act of treason. He’s without excuse as it was in the case of his new lord Lucifer, he’s willfully committed the unforgivable sin of treason.  And why has one committed such a horrible act? Because he had etching ears and found some preacher or teacher to scratch them for him. Someone to preach to him that he could serve two masters, but in his own heart he knew this was wrong because it was written own his heart by the Lord when he first believed! But his love of sin was greater than his love for God so he found someone to preach to him all the things he wanted to hear. He wanted to hear lies and in the end came to believe the lie. Prophecy is fulfilled in him that if he continues to resist the Holy Spirit he would receive strong delusions that he should believe the lie because he has no love of the truth.
 
Paul in Cor. 6:9-10 clearly states who will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven:
 
“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkard, nor swindlers, will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.”
 
We have much more scripture evidence to cover proving that this once saved always saved religion is not a bible doctrine, but first let’s take a look at the people that this bible teacher is teaching this doctrine of license to sin to and maybe it will give you a litter better understanding of the danger of this license to sin doctrine. First, I would like to point out the reaction of this teacher to our discussion on just what Paul really said. His only answer to what I said about the rest of Paul’s statement on the freedom in Christ was that the man Paul is speaking of was never saved in the first place and that was that. At the next bible class, the man could not stay on the topic of Jonah running from the will of God. Now I had no intention of saying anything in this class on the subject of once saved always saved because I told him that we should have this discussion outside of bible class so as to not disrupt the class and he agreed.
 
But the man could not let go, he talked about everything but the book of Jonah, he even talked about the many people who are dead just because of speaking when they should be keeping their mouths shut. I knew where he was going with it but I didn’t respond to it. At this point he’s looking for revenge, to say something to get under my skin, so he came up with something else. Now keep in mind that the class is supposed to be about Jonah and him running from doing the will of God. So, the teacher says “yes I serve God but I also like God to give me stuff” I would rather drive a car than ride the bus.” [I use public transportation and he knew this] He’s still trying to get a rise out of me because I’m just sitting there chilling. What he just introduced into the bible class is what’s known as the “Gospel of Stuff” or the “Prosperity Gospel” this has nothing to do with the book of Jonah.
 
But what the teacher didn’t know is that I have no desire for a car, and certainly not a luxury one. I have no need of a car; I live in a small town where everything is in close range. I go nowhere much anymore except for shopping and a few other places here and there. If I bought a car it would only sit in the garage 99.9 percent of the time and I would still be stuck with a car note and insurance [which is a rip-off] and for what? Just to show that I have a fancy car to drive? I have no need of a car. I rarely ask God for anything anymore because in the pass I’ve beg God for something that I believed I needed to make my life complete and it wound being the last thing I needed.
 
My prayer now is; God you know what things I’m in need of and what things I don’t need, like things that would distract me from you. But one thing I did ask the Lord for lately was an apartment with a decent view. I was tired of apartments where when I go out to sit on my patio I’m facing the apartment across from me, maybe fifteen feet away and I can see right into their home and they mine. Or the patio on either side of mine where I can hear everything they are discussing, there’s really no privacy.
 
I asked the Lord to find me an apartment with a private view where I could look out at creation and admire the beauty of it and not have to be seeing into someone’s else house when I sit out. Well, I went out to find that apartment and the first place I walked into to apply I immediately saw my prayer answered. After during all the paper work, the woman showed me the apartment I would be leasing if I liked it. We took the elevator to the fourteenth floor, she put the key in the door and opened  it and from that point on all I could think about was the beautiful view. She was showing me all the great features of the apartment, I was hearing her, but I was just amazed at the view that I had prayed for.
 
I said to myself; lady you can stop talking now, I’m already sold! I never really expected such an amazing view as this, even though I knew the Lord would answer my prayer for an apartment with a decant view, but never in my wildest dream did I think it would be something like this. People say; you just moved in, right? So, what floor are you living on, I would reply the fourteenth, they would say something like; o’ you’re in the pen-house apartment. I gave the woman the deposit and she gave me the key to the apartment, so the deal was finalized.
 
I came back the next day with the first month’s rent and this time I had to see another woman, after we finished with the rest of the paper-work she asked if I would like to see the apartment at this time. I told her that I had already seen my apartment and that I already have the key to the apartment. She did not like this very much, she said that the first woman was supposed to show me a model apartment and she would assign me an apartment. Now judging from our conversation, I don’t believe this second woman would have given me this apartment, I think she was going to hold it for someone else. But when God says something is yours, nothing can stand in the way of it.
 
I’ll never forget the first morning awoke in my new apartment that I asked God for, the view was even more beautiful than the day before. I got up about 4:00 a.m. I made a cup coffee and sat by one of the windows in the Living room. As I sat thanking God for such a wonderful view, I thought I had seen it all. But around 7:00 A.M the Sun begin to rise over the eastern sky. Now from the fourteenth floor of this apartment with the windows facing the east I had a panorama view of the eastern horizon. As I watched from that fourteenth-floor window I could not believe the breath-taking view of that morning.
 
As the sun began to rise, the whole eastern horizon seemed like it was on fire, everything was glowing red, like a great fire was burning over there, and it was, it’s called the “Great Lake of Fire!” As this great lake of fire aroused over the horizon I could only imagine the depth of this great lake of fire.  It is said by those who supposed to know that this great lake of fire is so deep that it can hold over one million earths with room left for more stuff to burn up. The promised that all who refused the gift of life, all who refuse to repent, who continue to live in sin, even after giving their lives to God would be thrown in and destroy and their souls destroyed. I couldn’t help thinking, is this that “Great Lake of Fire” that the Lord spoke of. This is certainly a great fire that I can continue to watch as it makes its approach every morning. Now I have a study reminder each and every day of the promise of God that those who live in sin, that this is their destination.
 
I could not help but think of the horrors of the soul that would be thrown in this “Great Lake of Fire” where souls are destroyed for blaspheming God. For any teacher to lead his students to this place of destruction telling them they could live in sin and be accepted into the Kingdom of Heaven, woe to that teacher. No, I didn’t ask God for a fancy car, but he did give me just what I needed at this time and what I needed was a renewed fear of the awesomeness and power of God that I may not sin against Him! So, I ask God in prayer to give me those things he knows that I’m in need of! The preacher and teacher of the “Gospel of Stuff” will never understand this.  O’ what a gift, to sit and view this “Great Lake of Fire” as it rises in all its glory every morning! My prayer was answered, but way beyond my expectations!
 
In this “Gospel of Stuff” it is believed that the more stuff [wealth] one has the more favorability they have with God. But because a person has much stuff does not prove that they have a more favorable standing with God. Look at Donald Trump, I know this bible teacher doesn’t have more stuff than Trump, and yet Trump was running for the nomination of the so-called Party of God to run for president at the time and says he never ask God for forgiveness. So why has God given Trump so much more stuff than he gives his servant who is supposed to be much closer to God? Is it because Trump has greater favorability with God than the teacher or is that this whole stuff thing is the stuff of lies? Now when the preachers of stuff talk about God giving them cars they are not talking about a Toyota, they are talking about the Lexus and other luxury automobiles. Keep in mind that the once saved always saved and the Gospel of Stuff goes hand in hand that’s why he brought it up. Now using their reasoning, one would have to question the Son of God’s relationship with his Father. If the amount of stuff one has accumulated while on earth determines their relationship with God, I would think that no one on earth have had more stuff than Jesus and His disciples, and yet they owned nothing. Is it that they weren’t very favorable in God’s eyes? Yet Jesus never asked his Father for a fancy car while he walked the earth and there were many luxury cars being driven by pagans.
 
Now I know that most people who read this can see where I’m going with this, but for those who don’t let me clear something up right now because I can hear the laughter from way over here. It goes something like this; Roy have lost his ever-loving mind, he’s talking about people driving Lexus’ and other luxury cars over two thousand years ago. What’s the matter with the boy, Lord help him? The car is nothing new it’s been around for thousands of years; the only major difference is the engine that drives it. The luxury car of Jesus’ day would probably have been a carriage pulled [the engine] by six Arabian Stallions, the Lexus of the time. The carriage would probably have been forged from the finest bronze of the time overlaid in gold, trimmed with ivory and studded with expensive stones. The interior laid with the best carpeting money could buy at the time. The first automobile was called the horseless car-riage.
 
You see, the major difference between the luxury of today and that of Jesus’ day is the engine that drives it. Whereas the engine of Jesus’ day that drove the luxury car was six Arabian Stallions, the engine that drives today’s luxury cars are six or eight cylinders, both measure their performance in horsepower to this very day. So yes, Jesus could have asked his Father for a luxury car, but he didn’t and neither did his disciples. Does this show un-favorability in the eyes of the Father toward His Son and His disciple? According to the Gospel of Stuff which includes once saved always saved the answer would be yes, no stuff no favorability in God’s sight! Or is it that this “Gospel of Stuff” is the stuff of lies? Now we will look at the sinners that this teacher is teaching this Gospel of “Once saved Always Saved” to and how it complements the Gospel of Stuff and the danger it poses to the students in his bible class.
 
There are sinners who fall and after a while realizes just to what extent they have sinned and return to the Lord and begs His forgiveness and promise to never return to the life of sin again, this is called repentance. Now, being human this saved sinner will make mistakes in the future for which he will again have to go to the Lord for forgiveness, that’s the condition of fallen man. But there is another type of sinner who like the prodigal son of the bible took his inheritance and spent it all on riotous living. Now this prodigal son realizes his mistake and return to beg his father’s forgiveness, he truly intents to make-up for his wrong doings. Now this other sinner is unlike the prodigal son in that once he uses up all his stuff financing his riotous, drunken, whoring, dope addictive lifestyle he returns to the father not because he’s seen the light and realizes his mistake, but to get more stuff to return to his sinful lifestyle. Both are sinners that fell into a life of sin, but the difference is in the intent of the heart, one repents, the other one doesn’t.
 
Now the second type of sinner who returns to his father’s house, it’s just to get more stuff to further finance his sinful lifestyle, the only reason he returns to his father’s house is because he now has nowhere to sleep and nothing to eat, he’s now humbled for the moment. But after a few nights of rest in a comfortable warm bed and has filled his belly with good food, his thought now begins to return to the sinful lifestyle he just left behind. Now in order for him to continue to sleep in that comfortable bed and continue to eat those three meals a day he must attend bible classes and church services. Now he doesn’t mind during this for a while because anything at this point is better than the life he’s just left behind of sleeping in allies behind dumpsters and standing in soup lines for food. Now in the bible class, instead of the teacher telling this prodigal son that the last thing he needs at this point in time is more stuff and that instead he needs to concentrate his attention on total submission to the will of God, the preacher of the “gospel of stuff” tell him that God’s got a lot more stuff he wants to give him, God wants to make him wealthy. And you know this gospel get a lot of followers.
 
From the moment, this sinner [who has proven that he cannot handle stuff] step into that bible class the prosperity teacher danglers stuff before his consciousness and even tells him that God will give him the greatest stuff of all, the Kingdom of Heaven and he really doesn’t even have to give up the sinful lifestyle he’s just escaped from with his life. Just say that you believe that Jesus died for your sins and you are forever saved no matter what kind of lifestyle you return to. Now the sinner really has no reason to leave behind the sinful lifestyle he so loves, just say those few words about Jesus and he can return to his old whoring drug addictive ways because no matter how low he goes and how sinful he lives he’s been convinced that he will still inherit the Kingdom of Heaven.  One of the major forces that drives this false doctrine and empowers it is that they only teach the love of God. In their sermons, you never hear about hell, they never talk about the prison for criminal and disobedient spirit. If the only thing you are taught is the love of God and never the wrath of God you can began to lose all fear of God, at this point you are in big trouble.
 
Once you lose the fear of God you also lose the fear of sinning against him, this leads to becoming harden in sin. The sinful act that once drove you to God to beg His forgiveness doesn’t seem so severe any more. It’s not just one false doctrine, but one that leads to another and another and they all come together to form the whole doctrine of the new age end-time church of deceit and lies. The first thing is to get you to believe you don’t have to abandon sin to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven and that God will save you in sin instead of from sin “once saved always saved” no need to rid your life of sin.  That accomplished they now dangle the next trap before them and that is to lose all fear of God “we only teach the love of God” so if God is love and has no wrath there’s no way the God of love would ever allow you to find yourself in such a terrible place called hell no matter how sinful you live your life.
                                     
                                                                                                                    Man Have no Fear of God
 
The importance of this first step in the corruption of the church cannot be overstated, the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom and understanding, to lose this fear of God is the first step to hell. Remember the two thieves that were crucified with Christ? Both were guilty of the same crimes, yet one found himself in paradise after his death, the other found himself in hell. There is but one major difference between the two thieves, the thief that found himself in hell had no fear of God, with his last dying breath he cussed God to the end. The other thief seemed amazed at his conduct at the moment of death, he had to ask the other thief “man have you no fear of God?” This once saved always saved religion of the New Age Church is the first step but the next step really seals the deal.  Not only can you have all this, to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven and live a life of sin but you can live a life of luxury here on earth, why wait for a mansion in heaven when you can have it now? This is the one that has trapped many preachers and bible teachers, just preach and teach this gospel and become very rich and buy your mansion on earth, why wait to get to heaven for it?  In this “The Gospel of Stuff” the pot is sweetened and the deal with Satan finalized! It all came together as a whole to destroy the man’s soul.
 
Now let’s clear up something here because I know what many are thinking at this point because I’ve heard it all before. It goes; Jesus could not have promised the thief that he would be in paradise that day because he did not ascend into heaven until after the resurrection. The problem is that they are confusing paradise with heaven, paradise can be anywhere God decides to make paradise. Remember the story of the rich man and the beggar in the bible, both die and went to their appointed place, the beggar to the bosom of Abraham in paradise like conditions, the rich man to hell. It seems that paradise and hell are in so close proximity to each other that the rich man could even see what was going on in paradise, yet this was not heaven, it was closer to hell. It seems that before the resurrection Christ all souls went to this same place both good and bad, but there was a boundary that separated the two. So, the thief did find himself in paradise but not in heaven.
 
Remember I said that the teacher of the bible class said Paul is speaking of the man that was never in the Kingdom of God in the first place, he was never saved. We will prove this to be untrue, we will prove through scripture that one who has walked with Christ and was awaiting His return had gotten caught-up in the affairs of this world and missed the Lord’s return and was left out in utter darkness; HELL!
                         
                                                                                                           The Virgins and the Trimmed Lamps
 
“Then shall the Kingdom of Heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bride groom. Five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While they bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet Him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to but, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterwards came also the other virgins, saying Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, and pray for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.” [Mathews 25:1-13] KJV
 
I think the first thing we need to be clear on is the use of the word virgin here and in many other places in scripture. The use of the word virgin doesn’t mean women who have never had sex with men, it represents the spiritual bride of Christ which includes both women and men. It represents the pure and unadulterated religion of Jesus the Christ, and Jesus being the bride groom. The Lord will not be wedded to an impure church, it must be virgin, now there is another word that is the opposite of virgin that word is whore, it is also used in scripture to represent religion.
 
In the story of the virgins, they were told to keep their light shining, to keep their lamps trimmed [make sure there was a constant supply of oil] so they would be able to see to meet the bride groom [Jesus the Christ] when he arrives because he may come like a thief in the night and catch them unaware. The meaning of the lamps and oil is to keep vigilance, always watching in expectation of the Lord’s return. Now many people believe this to mean the second coming of Christ, I don’t, I believe this to mean our appointed date with death. Now there’s no doubt that these were saved people, citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven, they are described as the pure religion of Christ, the very definition of being saved, they were virgins.
 
In the beginning, all kept their lamps trimmed, there was always oil in their lamp, in other words they kept a vigilant watch for the Lord’s return. At some point, some of the virgin began to let their oil get low and at some point, it completely ran out and their lamp went dark. Now remember, before this point they were still virgins, they were still saved, they were still citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven, they were virgins! Now the other virgins never let their lamps go low on oil they kept a vigilant watch for the Lord’s return. They studied the word of God, they did not try to sleep with their brother’s wives, did not steal, they fled from sin. When the Lord returned for them he says to them welcome home good and faithful servant. They enter the city of light where their mansion awaits them because they are virgin brides of Christ, they kept their lamps trimmed, they kept a vigilant watch for the Lord’s return.
 
Now the other virgins, the ones who were also saved before this point let their lamps go low on oil and eventually go out, could not see their way to the bride groom when he arrived for them, they were blinded by the cares of this world, they had become worldly. They begged the other virgins to give them some of their oil that they may see their way to the Lord, the reply was no, if we give you our oil then we will not have enough to keep our lamps lit. Go out and buy your own oil, and they go forth to buy oil. But while they were out buying oil the bride groom arrived and took with him those virgins who were prepare and waiting for his coming and departed with them. The other virgins had become whores, they didn’t keep a vigilant watch out the Lord’s return, they return to their old sinful ways and were probably told that it doesn’t matter how you live your life because “once saved always saved” they were left out in utter darkness; HELL! These other once virgins went whoring after other gods, gods who told them just what they wanted to hear, that they could live like devils and still inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, but they found out too late that it was all a lie and it cost them their souls.
 
It is stated in scripture that it is in Jesus that we live and move and have our being, scripture says the Christian make up the body of Christ. Scripture gives the impression that as we have billions of cells that make up our physical body, Christ has spiritual cells that make up His spiritual body and each Christian is a spiritual cell in the body of Christ. As long as the spiritual cell remains the body of Christ that cell has eternal life. How can it not have eternal life when it is in the body of life itself? But if for any reason any particular cell is rejected by that body its dead. For instance, if a person accidentally bites off a piece of their tongue and spit it out onto the ground, that cell from that person’s body is dead forever.
 
Let’s look at another verse of scripture which is even more clear that those in the body of Christ can lose their position in His body and end in hell:
 
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches, and unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” [Rev 3:13-16] KJV
 
Now I ask you, the person that was once in the body of Christ before being spit out by the Lord, was that person not save before being spit out of His body by Christ? The person only became unsaved when he or she was spit out of the body of Christ. So, the argument that the Charismatic bible teacher makes that the man Paul was speaking of was never saved in the first doesn’t hold water.   
 
This once saved always saved religion is not scriptural, the sinner must repent which means leaving the old sinful life behind, not accepting the Lord and then returning to stealing, robbing, whoring and drug addictive sinful lifestyle you left behind, you must be born again!
 
Earlier I stated that I avoided this topic of “once saved always saved” because some of the bible teachers I believed to be really enlighten teachers believe and teach this doctrine. One of these teachers is Charles Stanley, when I was driven to the bible class of once saved always saved, the first person that came to mind was Charles Stanley. Mr. Stanley is a well-known International figure in the bible teaching world, and I once believed him to be the best bible teacher on Television and on any media for that matter. This is a man that I told many people about and that if they wanted the truth of the word listen to Charles Stanley. Now I wasn’t a great follower of the man but in the early 1980 I discovered him one Sunday Morning on TV and he caught my attention. One thing I believe that drew me to him was the fact that I didn’t see a lot of theatrics with him.
 
At that point in time I was getting tired of the shows that were being put on in the pulpits of the churches of America, Mr. Stanley’s In Touch Ministry came as a welcome change to that.  As stated, I wasn’t a great follower of his ministry but I did watch his T V program from time to time and thought he really opened up the word of God and made it easy to understand. Apparently, I didn’t watch it closely enough, but there was always one thing that stayed in the back of my mind about Mr. Stanley, it was that he taught the religion of “Once Saved Always Save.” I have always had questions of this belief, but never attempted to really study it for myself, big mistake. I just kind of accepted it because people like Charles Stanley promoted it.
 
That’s why when I found myself in the bible class and realized why I was there Mr. Stanley was the first bible teacher that came to mind. Could I have been wrong about Charles Stanley all these years? Well after leaving the bible class the first thing I thought I would do is to take a really closer look at Mr. Stanley’s teaching on the doctrine of “Once Saved Always Saved” and what I found floored me, it stunned me:
 
“Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” [Charles Stanley]
“…believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation…” [Charles Stanley]
 
According to the “once saved always saved” teachings of Charles Stanley one who had at one time accepted Christ in his life can abandon Christ and take up with the Synagogue of Satan who states that Jesus’ mother was a prostitute and the Lord is a bastard, they set out to destroy the Church of Christ as it is trying to do to this very day, behead Christians blaspheme the Holy Spirit and still not lose salvation.  As we shall see, Mr. Stanley’s teachings can also lead to suicide as a shortcut to heaven.  But none of this doctrine that this world-renowned bible teacher is teaching is scriptural, his teaching on the “once saved always saved” or as he calls it “eternal security” really exposes the very seriously dangerous problems with this teaching. The true title of this false doctrine is “A license to live in sin”
 
“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” [2 Tim4:3-4] KJV
 
The Lord was clear in His statement that the unbeliever and the cowardly shall not inherit the Kingdom of Heaven except they repent. To repent means to turn away from the sinful life of the past, not to return to it.
 
“By which also you are saved, if you hold fast after what manner I preached unto you, unless you have believed in vain.” [1 Corinthians 15:2] you can believe and still lose your soul!
 
The Lord didn’t say that no unbeliever except the unbeliever who once accepted Christ into his life, he said no unbeliever shall inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. An unbeliever in heaven would cause all sorts of confusion in heaven, an unbeliever would not believe that Jesus is Lord. What place would he have in heaven? What purpose could he serve in heaven but to cause chaos? We have already seen the result of having this type of unholy being in heaven with Lucifer and the destruction he caused. Would God repeat this same process with another evil being that doesn’t believe Jesus should rule? That’s what unbelief means! This unbeliever is a rebel and is in opposition to God’s ruler ship of the universe.  At what time does this unbeliever begin to believe, is it after death? There is no indication anywhere in scripture that an unbeliever comes to the Lord after death, but instead is resurrected to everlasting contempt! If he had contempt for the Lord [that’s what unbelief is] before he died, that contempt is everlasting. Everlasting contempt in heaven, I don’t think so!
 
It seems Charles Stanley has become a modern-day scribe!
 
“Consequently, God does not require a constant attitude of faith in order to be saved—only an act of faith.” [Charles Stanley]
 
“And so, sometimes out of ignorance or whatever it might be, they attempt to gratify and meet those needs the same way they did before they were saved, you can’t tell a carnal believer a lost man. That is, you can’t tell cold from the carnal because the truth is, they’re both acting the same way. Now, one of them is in Christ and one of them isn’t. One of them is lost and the other one is in Christ. One of them knows about God and knows him in experience of salvation; the other doesn’t know him at all.” [Charles Stanley]
 
What Mr. Stanley is describing here is the cold or lukewarm Christian, but here he gives a totally different description of the man’s condition than the Word of God does. In Revelation Jesus says he will spew this man out of his mouth! It is in him that we move and have our being. It is in Jesus that we exist, Jesus says he will vomit this man from out of His being! He will no longer move and have his being in Christ Jesus, he’s lost. What bible is Mr. Stanley getting this stuff from?
 
Mr. Stanley’s Council to Suicidal People:
 
A believer who commits suicide is already forgiven. Now I didn’t say it was going to be good for him, I said they’re forgiven. They are pardon for that sin.” [Charles Stanley]
 
Who told this to Mr. Stanley? It surely wasn’t the bible, who know why this person took his or her own life? This person could have abandoned the Lord and joined a cult and sold his sold his soul to Satan, we see many once Christians do this today. Some who were once Christians leave Christianity and become Catholics, Muslim, some even become Satan worshipers and maybe their new lord Satan told them to take their own life as short cut to heaven where there will be a hundred virgins waiting to be his brides. There will be no whoring in heaven!
 
What about Judas, he believed and followed Jesus, he was even one of the disciples of Christ, sure Jesus identified him later as a devil, but in the beginning, he followed Christ, but there’s no doubt that he ended up in hell. Mr. Stanley did not get this from the word of God. What Mr. Stanley is doing is giving troubled people what they believe is a way out of their problem and a short-cut to heaven. This sounds like the Heaven’s Gate Cult, with this once saved always saved teaching of Mr. Stanley and many others, it’s no wonder the suicide rate is claiming so rapidly.
 
Got any problems that seems too much to handle, just put the gun in your mouth and pull the trigger and you will find yourself in heaven, this is in essence what Mr. Stanley is preaching. Who knows just how many people may have already taken their own lives listening to this kind of talk. Who knows just how many people whose problems weren’t really that great, but found this as a way out of any problems and a fast ticket to heaven and in the end found it to be a one-way ticket to hell. This once saved always saved teaching on Mr. Stanley is a very dangerous thing! If a person once believed on Christ and then left Christ and sold his soul to Satan, Satan now inhabits that body, I don’t see how that person killing himself is going to solve his problem.
 
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore, do not be partners with them.” (Eph. 5:5-7).
 
I’ve talked to people who said they were once Christians and left the faith, they give different reasons why, like some who say they just can’t serve a God who would burn a person throughout all eternity [which is not a bible teaching] for living a few sinful years on earth. Some of these people truly hate God and wants no part of Him or His Kingdom. They go out and join organizations and occult group like the Masons who spits on the cross of Christ. You mean to tell me that God is going to force these people to become citizens of His Kingdom when they want no part of Him or His Kingdom?
 
That doesn’t sound like the God of the bible to me, the God of the bible tell man to choose this day whom you will serve, if that person choose to abandon the Kingdom of Heaven and swear an oath to the kingdom of Satan and hell God gives him that option.
 
The Kingdom is not forced on anyone, man can walk away any time he chooses as and many do, do you believe they just sit around somewhere and think nice thought about Christ? Most go out and blaspheme the name of Jesus, because the same devil that worked in them to make them abandon the faith in the first place is the same devil that had a plan from the beginning, to get them to blaspheme against God. Take the Christian that abandons the faith and becomes a Catholic, this person hasn’t just turned his back on God, he has dethroned God in life and placed a woman on the Throne of Christ. This says Jesus is unworthy to rule the universe, that’s treason, the unforgivable sin!
 
Man doesn’t just abandon the Kingdom of Heaven and do nothing, he joins another kingdom that wars against the Kingdom of God. There’s only two kingdoms, the Kingdom of Heaven and the kingdom of hell, when he abandons the Kingdom of Heaven he joins forces with the enemy of the kingdom he’s just abandon and that is for but one purpose, to destroy the kingdom he’s just abandoned, he’s now an enemy of Christ. The man becomes in the words of Mr. Stanley “an unbeliever” what is it that he no longer believes? He no longer that Jesus is Lord, he no longer believes that the blood of Jesus washes away the sin of the world, he now believes that Jesus is a liar and not the savior of mankind.
 
He’s now a rebel ready to overthrow a government he no longer believes in! That’s what it means to become a non-believer, the man has made his decision of what kingdom he will serve, he’s now a believer in the kingdom of hell because there is no other kingdom he can be a citizen of. He no longer believes, just as Lucifer his new king no longer believes that Jesus is the rightful ruler of creation, he just no longer believes! These are the basic things one would have to believe in order to obtain citizenship in the Kingdom of Heaven. It’s like someone attempting to become a citizen of the United States of America and do not believe in the Constitution of the USA, it just not going to work.
 
There will be no unbelievers in the Kingdom heaven, and how do I know? Because the bible tells me so! This is not a person who slipped into sin and asked for forgiveness, but in the words of Mr. Stanley he has “abandon” his Lord, he have committed HIGH TREASON! Paul says there’s no forgiveness for that man! This teaching “once saved always saved” teaching of Mr. Stanley makes no sense. Pray for Charles Stanley.
 
“But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur.” This is the second death. [Rev 21:8]
 
The “Once Saved Always Saved” Credo of Salvation in Sin Instead of from Sin:
 
There’s nothing you can do to become saved, or it will be works. Therefore, there’s nothing you can do to become unsaved, you can’t gain or lose salvation based on what you do”
 
To say that there’s nothing that man can do to gain salvation is just wrong, Jesus described many things that man must do in order to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus says that man must believe in his heart that He is Lord, now that’s doing something. Now if the man had no choice in this matter how could God tell the man to choose this day whom you will serve? The man must do something here, he must take action that leads to his salvation, he must DO! The man’s salvation is determined by the things he does. If the man can do nothing to be saved, why would the Lord tell man he must believe the Gospel, in order to believe the Gospel, one must study it to know what it states in order to determine if he will accept or reject it, the decision is his to make. He must do!
 
The man must repent of his sins and that means doing things differently than he did in his past life, this takes man taking action to secure his salvation. Men take one verse of scripture and lift it out of its context and twist it and built a whole new false doctrine around it just to justify living a sinful lifestyle. If man can do nothing to determine his salvation, then what good is it to preach the gospel of salvation to anyone if it’s already predetermined that they have no say in that they will reject it or not? The word of God is clear that the man who finds himself in hell placed himself there by the things he did or did not do.
 
Man must DO in order to be saved! It is the things that man does that will either allow him entrance into the Kingdom of Heaven or condemn him to the Kingdom of Hell in the judgment. How could a man be judged for something happening in his life that he had no control over? I believe that one of the men who is most responsible for this belief was Martin Luther, a man that I believe became a true servant of God, but in his zeal to distance himself from the corrupt Catholic Church that preached salvation by works Luther went to the opposite extreme and claimed that man plays no part at all in his salvation.
 
Now I believe that God calls all men to salvation and that the man that comes to the Lord for salvation cannot make the claim that its by anything he did in coming to the Lord, but it was the Holy Spirit of God who called the man in the first place. This was no work of his own that he should boast about, this was all God’s doings. Because he called us even when we were dead in sin and that sin was there even from birth. Had not God called the man he would never have even thought of coming to God, the sinful nature that is in man at birth wouldn’t even allow for this. So, he played no role in his coming to the Lord of Salvation, but to remain there he must now Do his part, he must take action, there are things he must do in order to remain in that salvation or the rest of scripture makes no sense. Man must DO in order to be saved!  This license to live in sin gospel falls totally apart under close inspection, but to the one who’s determined to live in sin it’s the only thing he have left to cling to.
 
The apostle told the church to “WORK out your own salvation in trembling and fair” you must never lose the fear of God and the fear of sinning against Him, as this doctrine of license to live in sin teaches, the more you listen to this false gospel the more you lose fear of God and sinning against Him.
 
“For there are certain men crept in unaware, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and
denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” [Jude 1:4]
 
I thank God for driving me out of my comfort zone into that bible class of “Once Saved Always Saved” that my eyes might be opened to the truth of this false doctrine. Who knows just how many people I’m responsible for leading to this man and his false doctrine and how many more I would have been responsible for in the future, because I didn’t take the time to investigate this teaching for myself. God please forgive me!
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That's a long post but I did speed-read it. Here's a link you may also find edifying.

 

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If OSAS is true, and all sin is on the cross even willful sins, then we should be able to take the mark of the beast and stroll right thru those pearly gates.  but the bible tells us if we take the mark or worship the beast we are cut off from God.  Full stop.  repentance will be of no use or effect. 

I had walked away from God for a season.  I prayed to be restored for quite awhile and heard nothing and no peace came to me.  Finally when God began to call me back He made it obvious to me i had some repenting to do, and by repenting i do not just mean changing my mind.  As I was repenting there was one sin I was holding on to and this is a scripture God took me to and Spoke to my heart:

1Ch 28:9  And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

the last 7 words The Spirit spoke to my heart in a very stern way.  If I am lying then I am a hypocrite and you do not need to pay me any mind, but If I tell the truth my words should be of concern.  And I am telling the truth, and I do know when God tells me something.  OSAS is not true.  You simply cannot receive the gift of eternal life and continue to live as the old man did.  If you do then you abandon the free gift.  you forfeit it and walk away. 

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A salvation brought into control of man is not from God but from man...

John 10:27-30

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.
KJV
everything from 1st birth one must work to gain … nothing is free... you must earn it... do to get! It is those who are trapped in this mindset that cannot let go of 'I must do something to get'... We see them here do we not?

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV
Why will they not be known? Because they thought they could take from this place and manipulate things to cause God to save them; when clearly God says He is going to burn all this up and will be remembered no more... The reliance therefore cannot be upon the created elements but solely upon God Who promises  >and not by<

Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV

 

 

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2 hours ago, enoob57 said:

A salvation brought into control of man is not from God but from man...

John 10:27-30

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

30 I and my Father are one.
KJV
everything from 1st birth one must work to gain … nothing is free... you must earn it... do to get! It is those who are trapped in this mindset that cannot let go of 'I must do something to get'... We see them here do we not?

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV
Why will they not be known? Because they thought they could take from this place and manipulate things to cause God to save them; when clearly God says He is going to burn all this up and will be remembered no more... The reliance therefore cannot be upon the created elements but solely upon God Who promises  >and not by<

Titus 3:5-7

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
KJV

 

 

I think think you taking certain scripture verse scripture out of their context: “my sheep know my voice and I know them and they follow me” “my father who is greater than all and no man is able to pluck them out of by hand”

You are right that no man can pluck them out of the Lord’s hand, but this verse of scripture says nothing about the person using their free will to choose whom they will serve. In the case of anointed king Solomon, no man plucked him out of God’s hand, he walked away willingly. We can’t say God has given us free will when it serves one purpose and then turn around and say man does not have the free will to walk away from the kingdom when it serves another purpose. Because of the mason’s takeover of the church many Christians are becoming Masons, Masons, if they intend to move up in rank must spit on the cross of Christ.

Now no man pluck them out of the hand of the Lord, no gun was placed to their head to make them spit on the cross of Christ, they use their own free will to choose whom they will serve, God has given them that right. It is faith that saves, but faith where there is no works is a dead faith that cannot save. I think James made that very clear.

As far as for works, did you know that Abraham was justified by works when he offered his son up on the altar? Look at the verse of scripture below closely:

“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches, and unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.” [Rev 3:13-16] KJV

The Lord says He will spit them out of His mouth which means they will lose their salvation. And what is the reason the Lord gives for Him rejecting them? Its their works or lack thereof. Now this is what the messiah said not mortal man. You are free to walk away from the Lord at anytime or we need to stop preaching free-will. The anointed king Solomon used his God given free will to turn to other gods, and the bible says he went after these other god with his heart so there was a love affair there.

 

No man can pluck us out of God’s hand but man can turn away from the kingdom any time he desire or there's no such thing as free-will.

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1 hour ago, Royff said:

No man can pluck us out of God’s hand but man can turn away from the kingdom any time he desire or there's no such thing as free-will.

not according to this verse

Rom 8:37-39

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV
notice the bolded -through Him!  All created things cannot separate us from the love of God based on His Love for us >NOT our love for Him< why?

1 John 5:9-13

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
KJV

    

1 John 5:13

 

 

13 

 

§ Tau=ta
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These things
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have I written
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unto you
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that
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ye may know
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that
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life,
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ye have
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eternal
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ye may believe
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Greek Verb ei)dh=te

Greek Second Person

Greek Plural

Greek Perfect

Greek Active

Subjunctive


    

GREEK PERFECT

 

TENSE: PERFECT TENSE:

Definition: "A condition resulting from an anterior occurrence...the result of the occurrence is seen to be `present' or simultaneous with the time of speaking." (Fanning, Verbal Aspect, pp 290-91) The general meaning of the Perfect involves three elements which combine to produce the basic sense:

I.    Type of Action: An Aspect-feature of summary viewpoint concerning an occurrence, i.e., the type of action is viewed as a whole which is concluded, not as on-going or as an analysis of its particulars.

II.   Time of Action: An Internal Tense-feature of anteriority, i.e., the State follows a prior Action.

III. Combined Nature: These result in an Aktionsart-feature of stative situation, i.e., the action is concluded and the actor is at rest, but the results of the action are still in existence.

's Greek Syntax Notes, Copyright © 1985-2002 by Rev. Dale M. Wheeler, Ph.D. All rights reserved. Used by Permission.

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2 Peter: 20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.

22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

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29 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

not according to this verse

Rom 8:37-39

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV
notice the bolded -through Him!  All created things cannot separate us from the love of God based on His Love for us >NOT our love for Him< why?

1 John 5:9-13

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
KJV

    

 

1 John 5:13

 

 

 

 

13 

 

 

 

§ Tau=ta
 ODENPA
These things
5023
 Taúta
 

 

 

 

 e&graya
 V1SAAI
have I written
1125
 égrapsa
 

 

 

 

 u(mi=n
 OP2_PD
unto you
5213
 humín
 

 

 

 

 i%na
 CSF
that
2443
 hína
 

 

 

 

 ei)dh=te
 V2PRAS
ye may know
1492
 eid¢¡te
 

 

 

 

 o%ti
 CSN
that
3754
 hóti
 

 

 

 

 zwh\n
 NFSA
life,
2222
 zœ¢¡n
 

 

 

 


 e&xete
 V2PPAI
ye have
2192
 échete
 

 

 

 

 ai)w/nion,
 JFSAX
eternal
166
 aiœ¡nion,
 

 

 

 

 toi=$
 AMPD

3588
 toís
 

 

 

 

 pisteu/ousin
 V__PAPMPD
ye may believe
4100
 pisteúousin
 

 

 

 

 ei)$
 PA
on
1519
 eis
 

 

 

 

 to\
 ANSA
the
3588
 tó
 

 

 

 

 o&noma
 NNSA
name
3686
 ónoma
 

 

 

 

 tou=
 AMSG
of the
3588
 toú
 

 

 

 


 ui(ou=
 NMSG
Son
5207
 huioú
 

 

 

 

 tou=
 AMSG
of
3588
 toú
 

 

 

 

 qeou=.
 NMSG
God.
2316
 theoú.
 

 

Greek Verb ei)dh=te

 

Greek Second Person

 

Greek Plural

 

Greek Perfect

 

Greek Active

 

Subjunctive

 


    

 

GREEK PERFECT

 

 

 

TENSE: PERFECT TENSE:

 

Definition: "A condition resulting from an anterior occurrence...the result of the occurrence is seen to be `present' or simultaneous with the time of speaking." (Fanning, Verbal Aspect, pp 290-91) The general meaning of the Perfect involves three elements which combine to produce the basic sense:

 

I.    Type of Action: An Aspect-feature of summary viewpoint concerning an occurrence, i.e., the type of action is viewed as a whole which is concluded, not as on-going or as an analysis of its particulars.

 

II.   Time of Action: An Internal Tense-feature of anteriority, i.e., the State follows a prior Action.

 

III. Combined Nature: These result in an Aktionsart-feature of stative situation, i.e., the action is concluded and the actor is at rest, but the results of the action are still in existence.

 

's Greek Syntax Notes, Copyright © 1985-2002 by Rev. Dale M. Wheeler, Ph.D. All rights reserved. Used by Permission.
 

 

That means only that God cannot stop loving us, not that we cannot stop loving Him. If we cant walk away, we cannot have free will, we cease free will at salvation. And we know that isnt true.

satan was once good, and he turned away and so did many of the other angels. Turning away is possible. Judas turned away, Ananias and sappira turned away. Some say thats cos they were not saved in the first place. I dont accept that reason. Letters to churches in the Epistles deal with bringing back people who are falling away after being saved, or they will not go to heaven.

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48 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

not according to this verse

Rom 8:37-39

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
KJV
notice the bolded -through Him!  All created things cannot separate us from the love of God based on His Love for us >NOT our love for Him< why?

1 John 5:9-13

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
KJV

    

 

1 John 5:13

 

 

 

 

13 

 

 

 

§ Tau=ta
 ODENPA
These things
5023
 Taúta
 

 

 

 

 e&graya
 V1SAAI
have I written
1125
 égrapsa
 

 

 

 

 u(mi=n
 OP2_PD
unto you
5213
 humín
 

 

 

 

 i%na
 CSF
that
2443
 hína
 

 

 

 

 ei)dh=te
 V2PRAS
ye may know
1492
 eid¢¡te
 

 

 

 

 o%ti
 CSN
that
3754
 hóti
 

 

 

 

 zwh\n
 NFSA
life,
2222
 zœ¢¡n
 

 

 

 


 e&xete
 V2PPAI
ye have
2192
 échete
 

 

 

 

 ai)w/nion,
 JFSAX
eternal
166
 aiœ¡nion,
 

 

 

 

 toi=$
 AMPD

3588
 toís
 

 

 

 

 pisteu/ousin
 V__PAPMPD
ye may believe
4100
 pisteúousin
 

 

 

 

 ei)$
 PA
on
1519
 eis
 

 

 

 

 to\
 ANSA
the
3588
 tó
 

 

 

 

 o&noma
 NNSA
name
3686
 ónoma
 

 

 

 

 tou=
 AMSG
of the
3588
 toú
 

 

 

 


 ui(ou=
 NMSG
Son
5207
 huioú
 

 

 

 

 tou=
 AMSG
of
3588
 toú
 

 

 

 

 qeou=.
 NMSG
God.
2316
 theoú.
 

 

Greek Verb ei)dh=te

 

Greek Second Person

 

Greek Plural

 

Greek Perfect

 

Greek Active

 

Subjunctive

 


    

 

GREEK PERFECT

 

 

 

TENSE: PERFECT TENSE:

 

Definition: "A condition resulting from an anterior occurrence...the result of the occurrence is seen to be `present' or simultaneous with the time of speaking." (Fanning, Verbal Aspect, pp 290-91) The general meaning of the Perfect involves three elements which combine to produce the basic sense:

 

I.    Type of Action: An Aspect-feature of summary viewpoint concerning an occurrence, i.e., the type of action is viewed as a whole which is concluded, not as on-going or as an analysis of its particulars.

 

II.   Time of Action: An Internal Tense-feature of anteriority, i.e., the State follows a prior Action.

 

III. Combined Nature: These result in an Aktionsart-feature of stative situation, i.e., the action is concluded and the actor is at rest, but the results of the action are still in existence.

 

's Greek Syntax Notes, Copyright © 1985-2002 by Rev. Dale M. Wheeler, Ph.D. All rights reserved. Used by Permission.
 

 

Rom 8:37-39

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

 

“Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.” 

 

You can be a believer and still go to hell.

 

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 Again, nothing these can separate us from the love of God, only we ourselves can separate us from God. It was Solomon himself that separate himself from God, Solomon believed in vain. If the anointed king that built the temple and saw God face to face twice used his on own free will to turn his back on God. Think about that, me and you who has never seen God and never built God’s throne on earth and may or may not be anointed, and we are certainly not about to build the temple of the Lord. So if the king of God can turn his back on God and choose to worship another god what makes you believe that lessor servant like us is that important that’s is impossible us to get caught up in unrepentant sin as Solomon did and turn from God. No power on earth separated Solomon from God Solomon did it himself.

 KJV

notice the bolded -through Him!  All created things cannot separate us from the love of God based on His Love for us >NOT our love for Him< why?

 So did God not love Solomon? Even David, Solomon’s father knew that spirit of God could withdraw from him and he was smart and begged God not to take His spirit from his, the wise king Solomon wasn’t wise enough to see this. What about the scripture that states that you must prove faithful to the end to be saved.

 “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.” [Hebrews 3:12-14] KJV

 Notice, it states that you can depart from God, Solomon departed from God who he had seen twice, and so can anyone else. Again, you can depart from God and it's not any man plucking you out of His hand.

 1 John 5:9-13

9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

As long as you don’t use your free will to depart from God then you have eternal life, or be spit out like Solomon was. As long as we have the Son we have life, walk away from the Son and you will learn the lesson of Solomon.

These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

KJV

 You are no more love by God then Solomon was and yet Solomon found another lover as we see taking place throughout Christianity. Most of the church has abandon the Lord for the occult, many in the church now practice kundalini yoga in the church, that’s departing from the Lord for a new lover, kundalini the counterfeit holy spirit that has taken control of most Christian church; all denominations. And they depart from God!

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Interesting Thread.

Edited by Behold

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