Equal salvation but unequal rewards in heaven

[alaric_w]

What must we do to get the ticket to heaven?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast.

The ticket to heaven is a free-gift from God to whoever believe in Jesus and his finished work on the cross. It cannot be earn but can only be receive in humility. Since we cannot earn salvation, we cannot lose it.

What are rewards in heaven?

Matthew 10:42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.

Matthew 5:11-12 Blessed are you when men cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me. Rejoice, and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

Matthew 6:1 Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.

Rewards can only be earn. Every Christian will be judge and reward by Jesus based on their works. Every Christian will receive different level of rewards.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Rewards can be lost. God has predestined all Christians for good works. The amount of rewards that we earned is based on how much we submit ourselves to God to do the good works that he has prepared in advance for our entire lifetime.

Conclusion:

In heaven, there are good and bad Christians who are unequally rewarded.

In hell, no matter how good or great you are. You do not receive any reward. Only different severity of punishment.  

[johnthebaptist]

On 1/10/2019 at 12:53 AM, alaric_w said:

What must we do to get the ticket to heaven?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast.

The ticket to heaven is a free-gift from God to whoever believe in Jesus and his finished work on the cross. It cannot be earn but can only be receive in humility. Since we cannot earn salvation, we cannot lose it.

What are rewards in heaven?

Matthew 10:42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.

Matthew 5:11-12 Blessed are you when men cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me. Rejoice, and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

Matthew 6:1 Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.

Rewards can only be earn. Every Christian will be judge and reward by Jesus based on their works. Every Christian will receive different level of rewards.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Rewards can be lost. God has predestined all Christians for good works. The amount of rewards that we earned is based on how much we submit ourselves to God to do the good works that he has prepared in advance for our entire lifetime.

Conclusion:

In heaven, there are good and bad Christians who are unequally rewarded.

In hell, no matter how good or great you are. You do not receive any reward. Only different severity of punishment.  

I look at it differently, I think. The Lord will save us all from the messes we get ourselves into, if we turn to him. But then he expects us to learn from our mistakes.

[Jostler]

On 2/25/2019 at 5:39 PM, johnthebaptist said:

I look at it differently, I think. The Lord will save us all from the messes we get ourselves into, if we turn to him. But then he expects us to learn from our mistakes.

That doesn't sound a lot different to me    We've got a huge amount  of controversy being discussed on the forum right now that really need not  be controversial   Some are saying the evidence of works compatible with sanctification and holiness are so important, a life that does not display them  is lost and bound for the lake of fire.  Some are so forcefully arguing against a works based salvation, they  deny repentance even has a role to play.  Fact is, both  views are so extreme they've both departed from the wholeness of the Truth.

The OP's post here, is a beginning of bringing adjustment to both sides currently sitting at either  extreme.  This subject of 'eternal judgement' is one of six outlined in Hebrews 6:1-2 that we MUST master before we can even think  of moving on to any kind of  maturity in Him.

He's very focused on bringing revelation to His people on all six of those fundamental doctrines ...I've been  expecting to see more and more people focusing on  them and it's happening.  It's HIS focus (one of them anyway )

A HUGE part of understanding eternal judgement is wrapped up in understanding how He created us in three parts and how His salvation deals differently with  each part.  It's part of being created to reflect an image of Him into the earth.   We are spirit beings, that's the essence of  what we  are.  Our spirits possess a soul, which  is what makes us who we are.  Both are temporarily housed in a flesh body, which empowers us to perceive, interact with and live here in three dimensions.

Eternal judgement is the doctrine we need to learn that unites both  the "by grace and faith alone" reality of  salvation  of the spirit man, which is not won by and cannot be won by any work (and cannot be lost by works) and the progressive salvation (sanctification) of the soul which  is ALLL about  works. 

 

 

Edited February 27, 2019 by Jostler

[Who me]

On 2/26/2019 at 1:39 AM, johnthebaptist said:

I think. The Lord will save us all from the messes we get ourselves into, if we turn to him. But then he expects us to learn from our mistakes.

What do you mean by 'save'?

Save from the consquences ofrunning a red light?  No

Save from the consquence of running a red light. 'Welcome into the joy of the Lord, good and faithfull servant'   yes.

[johnthebaptist]

3 hours ago, Who me said:

What do you mean by 'save'?

Save from the consquences ofrunning a red light?  No

Save from the consquence of running a red light. 'Welcome into the joy of the Lord, good and faithfull servant'   yes.

Sin is those actions we take that cause trouble. The Lord gave us commandments not to commit those actions. When we do, we experience the consequences of those actions. Salvation, I believe, is when the Lord steps in and rescues us from those consequences. He does that when we repent.

[Jostler]

On 2/27/2019 at 7:33 AM, Cletus said:

I like how you worded that.  I have been trying to come up with a way to say its in the middle of those two that would turn on a light bulb,  because i am so against osas i am automatically defaulted by some on this forum as preaching works based salvation which i do not, nor will i ever.  it seems obvious to me the extreme ends of the spectrum make it so its hard to see whats in the middle, or even comprehend certain words and/or scriptures.   

That spirit/soul/body "key" to interpreting Scripture truly is one of the  legs we need in place to understand where this  balance really lies.  The other is a good foundation in the doctrines of "eternal judgement".

The thing that set me on this search for balance was a time when I'd come  to  realize I  really did know more  about  the Word than the vast  majority  of Christians I met.  I don't think it had passed into hubris yet but  it was certainly  headed that  way.  About that time I was just doing my daily Bible reading and He ambushed me on Hebrews 6:1-3.  I've learned to look forward to His ambushes now  but they're not always entirely pleasant while they're in progress

Quote

Heb 6:1

¶

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.  And this we will do if God permits.

As He lit up this passage and I began noticing things I'd never noticed before, it became clear He'd just given me a list of six foundational principles I had to have mastered, if I  were to ever be able to consider myself in any way "mature".

So I began doing an assessment of how much I knew about each of the six.  I concluded I had a good understanding  of  repentance, faith  toward God, ditto.   I thought "hmm....baptisms I think I know  a  bit  about but probably need to double  check that one.  Laying  on of hands, hmm...maybe?  Resurrection....oh I got this  one.  Eternal judgement?  Ouch.   I  can't recall hearing a single sermon  on that  one  and certainly never purposely studied it myself.

Now the real depth of my lack wasn't clear to me but that was what I  initially thought   Fact is, after quite some time and focus I eventually realized I  didn't know diddly squat about any of them except repentance and had a decent handle on faith toward God.  The rest it turns out were studies that yielded breathtaking revelations I had  no clue existed when I made that initial assessment.  But I didn't learn that til much later.

At this point  He began to speak to my heart and I'll express this  as a conversation because I don't know how else to do it.  He didn't actually  speak  these  words in my mind but the communication was so clear, the sense  of His presence so strong, He  might as well have been sitting across the kitchen table from me.  I "heard":

"Ok, so you can see that maybe there are some foundational principles  you  have not  fully apprehended.  I've ordered your life such that you have had far more time to spend in my Word than most will ever be given.  You've made a good start at building  your  foundation and good on you for that.  But don't you dare even begin to think you've moved on to maturity."

More than a little humbled, and likely spared a harsh fall into pride by  His intervention, i decided I  probably needed to go into each  of the six and check the foundation and shore up any weak spots He  identified. 

Since that time I've learnt a lot more of all six and He's used them to inform and guide my understanding of almost everything I've learned since. And i'm dead certain I haven't exhausted all the revelation available from any of them.

We all need a good solid, well cut  stone in our personal foundations named "eternal judgement" and He's very focused right  now on seeing His people get that stone in place.  Finding the balance between OSAS and works based salvation is one  of the reasons.  He is in need of mature sons and daughters who can be about  the Father's business in coming days.  And shoring up those six fundamentals is necessary to gaining them.

I'm going  to make some assertions without detailed displays of the Scriptures that back them up and I don't expect you to take my word for any of it.  Go all Berean on me   Demand proof.  Seek it with Him for yourself.  However you choose to do it...I'll happily answer questions if  i know  an answer or just go hard after the Teacher and let Him  do it. 

The topic of eternal judgement is far richer and more nuanced than I ever imagined.  Studying it out will take you into wild and wonderful places.  You'll find sets of threes like "called, chosen and faithful" - "slave,  servant and son" - "seeing, entering  and inheriting" and eventually they all get intermingled and you begin to see relationships between all of them.

The people who reject OSAS often do so out of a fundamental rejection  of perceived injustice.  How can someone who refuses to live a holy life expect to get the same treatment as someone who denies themselves and suffers the sacrifices of  Kingdom  service???  Fact is they don't.  And the  study of eternal judgement reveals the  horrific cost of that choice.  He  is just, we can bank on that.  And we have NO clue the boundless magnitude of His amazing incredible grace.  Nor do we even BEGIN to perceive the abject terror  of His judgement.  The study of eternal judgement is a beginning  of expanding our  perception of both.

To the  new born He is the Lamb.  To the growing He is  revealed as the Lion-King.  To the mature, He is both.

Quote

Rom 11:22

Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

We have no clue the magnitude of either, but this study  makes a start.  Until we can see Him as One in all His manifestations, Lamb, Lion, Bridegroom and Judge (and more) our view of Him is lacking, our  knowing of Him  incomplete.

He is and always will be the Lamb of God who took the  sin of the world.  But when He comes back He's not coming as the Lamb.  He's coming as the  roaring Lion-King  of Judah and between now and then, we MUST understand that much of what He is about  to  do is motivated by the lovesick heart of a Bridegroom  longing to  be united with His Bride.  If we do not perceive that, as He begins moving with a terrible, focused intensity, to remove every roadblock to Bridal union, we will misunderstand Him, and might take offense and fall away.

Its a sobering, fascinating time and being  chosen to  live in this generation is an incredible privilege.  He's coming soon.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Jostler

[missmuffet]

On 1/10/2019 at 12:53 AM, alaric_w said:

What must we do to get the ticket to heaven?

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God — not by works, so that no one can boast.

The ticket to heaven is a free-gift from God to whoever believe in Jesus and his finished work on the cross. It cannot be earn but can only be receive in humility. Since we cannot earn salvation, we cannot lose it.

What are rewards in heaven?

Matthew 10:42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.

Matthew 5:11-12 Blessed are you when men cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me. Rejoice, and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

Matthew 6:1 Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.

Rewards can only be earn. Every Christian will be judge and reward by Jesus based on their works. Every Christian will receive different level of rewards.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Rewards can be lost. God has predestined all Christians for good works. The amount of rewards that we earned is based on how much we submit ourselves to God to do the good works that he has prepared in advance for our entire lifetime.

Conclusion:

In heaven, there are good and bad Christians who are unequally rewarded.

In hell, no matter how good or great you are. You do not receive any reward. Only different severity of punishment.  

There will only be born again Christians in heaven. No such thing as "bad" Christians in heaven. Sins are not judged in heaven but only rewards for what was done for God while on this earth. The rewards bring Glory to God. I believe there will be different levels of punishment in hell because of Revelation 20:12. It will all be very, very bad. 

[simplejeff]

"Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

(8) And to her was granted . . .--Better, And it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright, pure; for the fine linen is the righteousness (or, righteousnesses; the word is plural) of the saints. This verse is not to be taken as part of the song. The song closes with the announcement that the Lamb's wife has made herself ready. Then follows the explanation of this readiness: she is adorned in fine linen. Her apparel is in contrast to the harlot: it is not purple and scarlet (Revelation 17:4; Revelation 18:16), but pure white. The symbol is explained: "the fine linen is the righteousness (or, righteousnesses) of the saints." The raiment is that which strikes the eye: it has its character, and it indicates the character of the wearer. The harlot attracts by ostentatious colours, the tokens of qualities more conspicuous than abiding, more dazzling than helpful; the Lamb's wife is robed in pure and stainless white, the token of those high, moral, spiritual qualities by which she has been known.

 

The source of these righteousnesses is divine: it is given to her to be so arrayed. It is no fictitious righteousness: it is real, it is hers, though it would never have been hers but for Him without whom she can do nothing (comp. John 15:4-5, and Philippians 3:8-10? and it is through the wearing of this white flower of a blameless life that she has borne witness for her Lord, and against the spirit of harlotry and sin (Matthew 7:16-18)."

[Jostler]

38 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

There will only be born again Christians in heaven. No such thing as "bad" Christians in heaven. Sins are not judged in heaven but only rewards for what was done for God while on this earth. The rewards bring Glory to God. I believe there will be different levels of punishment in hell because of Revelation 20:12. It will all be very, very bad. 

that is not entirely true.  the  devil  is in the details as they say    Sin will prevent some from ever....EVER entering the New Jerusalem and some will NEVER be given access to the Tree of Life...never taste its fruit for all eternity. 

Receiving  Him as Saviour and rejecting His Lordship in this life will cause horrific, eternal losses....more than rewards are at stake at the Judgement

[Jostler]

57 minutes ago, Cletus said:

yes indeed, but i am sure you have read that some are still struggling with just repentance and baptisms and laying hands.  the scripture you quoted says this is elementary.  we have some who, as you pointed out deny repentance altogether... i had started a thread called the gospel of paul where i outlined this repentance unto salvation as in acts it does say he preached.  the thread was not very popular and the thread God and UFOs seemed to get more attention...      sigh.

as far as eternal judgment goes.  in the book of Ecclesiastes which is the book God started me in, it says we will be judged everything we do and every word we speak.  we either speak life or death, and the power of life and death is in the tongue.  as far as works go... faith without works is dead.  we will be judged according to our works... or everything we do.  if our words and works do not line up we have a deficiency of faith and or are lazy at putting out faith into action.  we either believe it our we dont.  works and words are evidence of our faith... and faith is how we please God.  Faith is how we approach God.   the eternal portion is that its final forever and ever.  we only have so much time.  the enemy knows his time is short.  we need to acknowledge this as well.  tomorrow is not promised and we have a lot of people still building on top of The Foundation with hay stubble and wood.  when fire tests these works/teachings the rewards thought incoming will be suffered as loss. 

made me wanna git up and shout brother.  HALLELUJAH!