Paul James Posted April 29, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted April 29, 2020 On 5/9/2019 at 8:12 AM, Meerkat said: Yes, I agree, tongues is gift that some are given and some are not. Indeed, tongues seems to be regarded in Scripture as secondary gift - for example, prophecy is deemed to be of higher value. This is in contrast to esteem that some Christians give tongues. Their view is that if one doesn't have tongues, one is not true believer. There is the private prayer language which all Christians can receive and use, and there is the ministry gift of tongues to be used in church along with interpretation. Not all receive the ministry gift of tongues. That is what Paul is talking about. I believe that all genuine converts to Christ receive the Holy Spirit at conversion, but I don't believe that tongues is the primary evidence. Faith is the evidence of things not seen and the assurance of things hoped for, so faith is the primary evidence of conversion and baptism with the Spirit. So one doesn't need to have tongues as a requirement for salvation. This because many who are converted and receive the Holy Spirit, have the Spirit living dormant in their spirit until they develop their knowledge and faith to allow Him to flow out of them with tongues and prophecy. This is why believers have received the baptism with the Spirit and never spoken in tongues or prophesied. Either they have been wrongly taught Cessationism, or they have not yet developed their faith yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leah777 Posted May 4, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.72 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 On 4/29/2020 at 3:02 AM, Paul James said: it is because He is sitting dormant in your spirit. He needs to start flowing out of you, and that takes faith on your part. got any scripture for this idea? I don't like you suggestion that I lack faith. Its not true. On 4/29/2020 at 3:02 AM, Paul James said: The potential for manifesting any of the gifts of the Spirit are within you. How do you know what other gifts I have. You are saying that tongues is the first gift, then the others follow. On 4/29/2020 at 3:02 AM, Paul James said: 1. You must believe that it is God's will for you to exercise the gift. What if tongues is not one of the gifts God wants me to have? You havent answered one question in my post you quoted. Not one. Did you read what I asked when you quoted me? All you have said is that the holy spirit isn't working in me because I lack faith. Thanks for that. Really uplifting and helpful - not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul James Posted May 4, 2020 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 771 Content Per Day: 0.53 Reputation: 392 Days Won: 1 Joined: 04/27/2020 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/07/1947 Share Posted May 4, 2020 10 hours ago, leah777 said: got any scripture for this idea? I don't like you suggestion that I lack faith. Its not true. How do you know what other gifts I have. You are saying that tongues is the first gift, then the others follow. What if tongues is not one of the gifts God wants me to have? You havent answered one question in my post you quoted. Not one. Did you read what I asked when you quoted me? All you have said is that the holy spirit isn't working in me because I lack faith. Thanks for that. Really uplifting and helpful - not. "Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them" (John 7:38). Some believe that God takes over the mouth and tongue and makes people speak in tongues involuntarily. That is not faith. Faith is a personal free will choice followed up by commensurate action. I was not inferring that you don't have faith. But I was saying that to turn belief into action, one must make a personal effort to take the first steps and then the Holy Spirit honours the person's faith. It is the same with Mark 16: "They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover". Faith goes and lays hands on the sick person. God does not take over the arm and hand to do that. The person must make the effort himself. The very first step in receiving any gift is that you believe it is God's will for you. Until you believe it, you cannot have the faith to receive it. Those who talk people into tongues and say one has to have the gift in order to be saved, ie: promoting the gift through fear, will result in the person receiving a fake and not the real thing. This is because they start speaking in tongues through the will of those who want him to, instead of it being God's will. The Scripture says, "If you ask for anything according to God's will, you will receive it". God's will is the key factor. You have gone one plus one equals 5 in your interpretation of my answer. I said that every genuine convert to Christ receives the full measure of the Holy Spirit and the potential for manifesting any of the gifts of the Spirit. It is not a subsequent experience. It comes right along with conversion. In fact it is a necessary component with enables conversion. (This is not to say that tongues has to be part of that initial receiving of the Spirit at conversion). The Holy Spirit is working in you and has been the moment you were converted to Christ. He is developing growth in grace and the knowledge of God, and giving you enlightenment in the Scriptures. If the gifts are not flowing out through you, it is not a lack of faith at all. It is because you have never been instructed how to release the Spirit in you so that He can flow out of you in ministry to others through the gifts. Perhaps there are none in your church who can give you the appropriate practical teaching in order to give you that release of the Spirit. Or perhaps your church never uses the gifts at all, therefore there would be no opportunity. To be frank, maybe you should real exactly what I wrote instead of filtering what I say through your own preconceived ideas. Saying that being released in the gifts requires faith does not imply in any way that you lack faith. You chose all by yourself to interpret me in that negative way, because I never said it. If you don't believe that the release of the Spirit in the gifts, including tongues is is God's will for you, then don't bother trying to ask for them; but don't go flaming me for sharing with you what I believe is God's will for me concerning them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leah777 Posted May 4, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,393 Content Per Day: 0.72 Reputation: 1,156 Days Won: 1 Joined: 01/09/2019 Status: Offline Author Share Posted May 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Paul James said: "Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them" (John 7:38). Some believe that God takes over the mouth and tongue and makes people speak in tongues involuntarily. That is not faith. Faith is a personal free will choice followed up by commensurate action. I was not inferring that you don't have faith. But I was saying that to turn belief into action, one must make a personal effort to take the first steps and then the Holy Spirit honours the person's faith. It is the same with Mark 16: "They shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover". Faith goes and lays hands on the sick person. God does not take over the arm and hand to do that. The person must make the effort himself. The very first step in receiving any gift is that you believe it is God's will for you. Until you believe it, you cannot have the faith to receive it. Those who talk people into tongues and say one has to have the gift in order to be saved, ie: promoting the gift through fear, will result in the person receiving a fake and not the real thing. This is because they start speaking in tongues through the will of those who want him to, instead of it being God's will. The Scripture says, "If you ask for anything according to God's will, you will receive it". God's will is the key factor. You have gone one plus one equals 5 in your interpretation of my answer. I said that every genuine convert to Christ receives the full measure of the Holy Spirit and the potential for manifesting any of the gifts of the Spirit. It is not a subsequent experience. It comes right along with conversion. In fact it is a necessary component with enables conversion. (This is not to say that tongues has to be part of that initial receiving of the Spirit at conversion). The Holy Spirit is working in you and has been the moment you were converted to Christ. He is developing growth in grace and the knowledge of God, and giving you enlightenment in the Scriptures. If the gifts are not flowing out through you, it is not a lack of faith at all. It is because you have never been instructed how to release the Spirit in you so that He can flow out of you in ministry to others through the gifts. Perhaps there are none in your church who can give you the appropriate practical teaching in order to give you that release of the Spirit. Or perhaps your church never uses the gifts at all, therefore there would be no opportunity. To be frank, maybe you should real exactly what I wrote instead of filtering what I say through your own preconceived ideas. Saying that being released in the gifts requires faith does not imply in any way that you lack faith. You chose all by yourself to interpret me in that negative way, because I never said it. If you don't believe that the release of the Spirit in the gifts, including tongues is is God's will for you, then don't bother trying to ask for them; but don't go flaming me for sharing with you what I believe is God's will for me concerning them. Wow!!! Me flaming you for asking questions? I don't understand things? Still no scripture on why you believe speaking in tongues is necessary? Good grief. I am stunned at your response. "If you don't believe that the release of the Spirit in the gifts, including tongues is is God's will for you, then don't bother trying to ask for them; " I never said I don't believe in the gifts of the spirit. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted May 4, 2020 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 4, 2020 Be skeptical, especially online, and in churches. The false gospels are much much much more common and prevalent, and false prophets and false teachings are more common, everywhere, than the truth is. Everything must be tested and proven true in line with all Scripture BEFORE it is accepted, or the messenger too, and BEFORE building anything upon it - or it will fall down.... It is better to be or to feel 'lost and shaky' about this stuff.... than to accept it and be led far astray from God and from His Word. Get back to , and stay on , His Word, Solid Ground, in Jesus, as Revealed by the Father, in all things, all the time, every day, every moment of every day. On 1/10/2019 at 5:13 PM, leah777 said: How do you know you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit? What about if you do not speak in tongues? are you not worthy to be baptized in the Holy Spirit if you dont speak in tongues? Are you still saved if you are not baptized in the Holy Spirit? Sorry for all the questions guys, this came up in another thread I am in, and I feel lost and shaky about all this stuff now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daytrader Posted July 9, 2020 Group: Members Followers: 1 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 11 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted July 9, 2020 I know of a lady who was 100 years old when she was converted. Now let's be honest folks, a 100 year old woman on her deathbed is not going to have the acts 1 experience as it says where ," These men are not drunk it is only 9:00 in the morning." no tongues for her, no power to heal the sick coming from her, she is still a saved individual though! I'm going to address demons in my next podcast on "The Neptune Project" - spotify, anchor.fm, itunes, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadworm Posted July 10, 2020 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 25 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 300 Content Per Day: 0.18 Reputation: 79 Days Won: 0 Joined: 09/13/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 10, 2020 Leah, My Spirit baptism at age 16 at a camp meeting was by far the highlight of my life. At the time I had all but lost my faith and was convinced that most charismatic manifestations were of the flesh. I saw many encouraged and even manipulated into speaking in tongues and was determined not succumb to the power of suggestion and wishful thinking. So I went for a 7 mile walk in the country, confessing my disillusionment with God and pleading for an inner assurance that Christ and God were real. When I returned, I did something I had never done before--I put the money I planned to spend on dinner in the offering plate and thus fasted. At the end of the service I went forward to kneel at the altar, but my heart felt like stone. Soon I was the only one left in the amphitheater. Suddenly I felt a strong breeze and assumed it came off the nearby Pelican Lake. But it was the wind of the Holy Spirit! The Spirit gently possessed me and forced me to speak in tongues at the top of my voice. Wave after wave of liquid love surged through my being, each wave more powerful than the last. I can only say the experience was 100 times more intense an experience of pure unconditional love, power, and exquisite sweetness than I have ever experienced before or since. At one point I was afraid that I'd die withy my puny ego being absorbed into God's awesome mind! A couple of curiosity seekers reentered the amphitheater to see what was happening. One lady say and stared, later telling me that my face was radiantly glowing in the darkening building. A Lutheran pastor approached my when I was silent and said he didn't believe in tongues and was only there as an interested observer, but he could tell that God was doing a special work in me. I didn't argue with him; I just gently touched him on the forehead and he exploded in other tongues! With the experience came other spiritual gifts. I strangely knew that I would receive the highest GPA in the province of Manitoba in my senior high school year, this despite the fact that I wasn't doing that well in school. The scholarships I received as a result allowed me to finance many years of college and grad school to study theology and Scripture. But I also received the gift of "the word of knowledge." Many times I "knew" that someone was going to die shortly. Once I tried to convince a friend not to go on a hunting trip because of my death premonition. He ignored my warning and was killed when his rifle accidentally discharged into his shoulder. I could post a long thread on these experiences. I am very skeptical by nature and would probably have abandoned my faith were it not for that magical life-changing experience. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlade Posted July 31, 2020 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 65 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,212 Content Per Day: 1.36 Reputation: 1,115 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/06/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1961 Share Posted July 31, 2020 Leah this is what happen to me. I was saved for a few years and never new anything about the holy Spirit. One night in the bible study they asked me if I wanted the holy Spirit. I said yes. I sat in this chair and they read what the bible says about the holy Spirit. Then asked me again I said yes. They prayed then they just stopped and said "you got it". Nothing what so ever happened. No one was saying a word. I got up and went to sit in this chair and BAM! Tongues just came out. And from that moment on.. it was like day and night. I can not tell you why tongues came out. .. I only share exactly as it happened. So my words to you are.. in Luke Christ said how much more will your heavenly Father give the holy spirit to THEM that ask. He said ask. See thats what they did in the bible study. And then they prayed and then just stopped praying. Why? I did what the word says...what God said. I asked Him.. they prayed and stopped for they knew I had it. Well God can not lie. They didn't see anything they knew God can not lie. If you ask as He said HE will give it period. Think about Him.. now think and know He can not lie. If He said ASK.. He is going to do it. Why are you saved? FEEL saved do you? No.. He said who so ever believes. So you believe and how do you know your saved? Because HE said it and HE can not lie. So do the same for the verse in Luke. Ask Him for the holy Spirit and then thank Him praise Him.. not by what you see hear or feel. All FAITH! Never give it another thought. KNOW He DID give it when you asked. I am just saying do what the word says no more no less. Not reading anything into this. You know reminds me when I was with my best friend in high School. At his house one day his little sister came in saying .. she was so pumped lol. Saying how her friend was baptized and when she came up she was speaking in tongues. What makes this so AWESOME is.. that was at a Catholic Church. I think some can be right about Jesus just wrong about Mary. Anyway.. your life will never be the same Something wonderful is about to happen to you.. in JESUS name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David1701 Posted July 31, 2020 Group: Royal Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 5,731 Content Per Day: 3.57 Reputation: 3,522 Days Won: 12 Joined: 11/27/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted July 31, 2020 28 minutes ago, TheBlade said: Leah this is what happen to me. I was saved for a few years and never new anything about the holy Spirit. One night in the bible study they asked me if I wanted the holy Spirit. I said yes. I sat in this chair and they read what the bible says about the holy Spirit. Then asked me again I said yes. They prayed then they just stopped and said "you got it". Nothing what so ever happened. No one was saying a word. I got up and went to sit in this chair and BAM! Tongues just came out. And from that moment on.. it was like day and night. I can not tell you why tongues came out. .. I only share exactly as it happened. So my words to you are.. in Luke Christ said how much more will your heavenly Father give the holy spirit to THEM that ask. He said ask. See thats what they did in the bible study. And then they prayed and then just stopped praying. Why? I did what the word says...what God said. I asked Him.. they prayed and stopped for they knew I had it. Well God can not lie. They didn't see anything they knew God can not lie. If you ask as He said HE will give it period. Think about Him.. now think and know He can not lie. If He said ASK.. He is going to do it. Why are you saved? FEEL saved do you? No.. He said who so ever believes. So you believe and how do you know your saved? Because HE said it and HE can not lie. So do the same for the verse in Luke. Ask Him for the holy Spirit and then thank Him praise Him.. not by what you see hear or feel. All FAITH! Never give it another thought. KNOW He DID give it when you asked. I am just saying do what the word says no more no less. Not reading anything into this. You know reminds me when I was with my best friend in high School. At his house one day his little sister came in saying .. she was so pumped lol. Saying how her friend was baptized and when she came up she was speaking in tongues. What makes this so AWESOME is.. that was at a Catholic Church. I think some can be right about Jesus just wrong about Mary. Anyway.. your life will never be the same Something wonderful is about to happen to you.. in JESUS name Everyone who has been born again has the Holy Spirit and has been baptised in the Holy Spirit. Nowadays, it happens at conversion. 1 Cor. 12:12-14 (WEB) 12 For as the body is one, and has many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ. 13 For in one Spirit we were all baptised into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all given to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. This does not mean that everyone has the gift of tongues. God gives his gifts as he wills. It is dangerous to base your doctrine on your experiences; rather, you need to seek to understand your experiences, in the light of God's word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Von Posted September 29, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 1,265 Topics Per Day: 0.44 Content Count: 2,637 Content Per Day: 0.93 Reputation: 760 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/06/2016 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/04/1972 Share Posted September 29, 2021 On 1/10/2019 at 9:13 PM, leah777 said: How do you know you have been baptized in the Holy Spirit? Those who were baptized in the Holy Spirit yields the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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