Born again??

[Amanda Frances]

Quote

 

ohn 3 New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. ² He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

³ Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.^[a]”

⁴ “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

⁵ Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. ⁶ Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit^[b] gives birth to spirit. ⁷ You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You^[c] must be born again.’ ⁸ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”^[d]

⁹ “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

¹⁰ “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? ¹¹ Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. ¹² I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? ¹³ No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.^[e] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness,so the Son of Man must be lifted up,^[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”^[g]

¹⁶ For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ¹⁷ For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. ¹⁸ Whoever believes in him is not condemned,but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. ¹⁹ This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. ²⁰ Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. ²¹ But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

 

John 3: 1-21

[Your closest friendnt]

6 hours ago, Frances said:

ohn 3 New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Teaches Nicodemus

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council. ² He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

³ Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.^[a]”

⁴ “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

⁵ Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. ⁶ Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit^[b] gives birth to spirit. ⁷ You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You^[c] must be born again.’ ⁸ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”^[d]

⁹ “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

¹⁰ “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things? ¹¹ Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. ¹² I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? ¹³ No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.^[e] 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness,so the Son of Man must be lifted up,^[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”^[g]

¹⁶ For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. ¹⁷ For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. ¹⁸ Whoever believes in him is not condemned,but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. ¹⁹ This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. ²⁰ Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. ²¹ But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

 

John 3: 1-21

Thank you for this bible passage. 

I have always been fascinated to read this passage about Nicodemus. 

Nicodemus found out from Jesus Christ that he was not born from the Spirit, verse 8.

Nicodemus he knew that because the children of God before the Cross the Jews and the others Galilians and...were the children of the law which includes the cleansing ceremonies which useses water. 

So Jesus was telling him that in his time this will happened and that he Nicodemus will witness the event before it happens. 

He Nicodemus will see Jesus Christ the Messiah dead on the Cross. 

Then Jesus said if you believe in me after that event when you hear the Gospel of the resuraction then you will be born of the spirit , in the new family of God, of the children born of the Spirit. 

So this is the question; 

When is anyone born of the Spirit? 

Nicodemus believe the message of Peter that Jesus died on the Cross for the forgiveness of our sins and raised from the dead and is sitted on the Heavenly Throne on the right hand of God. The Judge and Lord over all. 

If you also believe like Nicodemus that Jesus Christ died on the Cross  for the forgivness of our sins and raised from the dead, then like Nicodemus you are born from the SPIRIT of GOD, from above. 

[C. J. Berezhnoy]

I believe that for some it is a gradual transition whereas for others, it is an instantaneous one.

[ReyRioG]

Without question, God knows the heart.

While I believe in the Sinner’s Prayer, the words in and of themselves are not a magical incantation guaranteeing salvation. Does one truly believe what it says when saying it? If truly yes, I believe salvation is instant.

That being said, the Sinner’s Prayer is not the requirement, the belief is.

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 hour ago, ReyRioG said:

Without question, God knows the heart.

While I believe in the Sinner’s Prayer, the words in and of themselves are not a magical incantation guaranteeing salvation. Does one truly believe what it says when saying it? If truly yes, I believe salvation is instant.

That being said, the Sinner’s Prayer is not the requirement, the belief is.

 

I agree......it’s just like responding to an alter call......that walk up the aisle is not what saves.....it is the belief that prompted that walk that saves.....

[Prycejosh1987]

On 1/11/2019 at 2:38 AM, SisterCess said:

I had a chat with my brother in Christ and we were discussing about sinner's prayer until he mentioned that being born again is a process, that it is not just in a blink of an eye and you are born again.. is this true?? Cause base on my experience, I think it's not..

I agree with your brother in Christ, but i also see what you are saying, born again has a period where teh person is born again and "starts again" but that process takes time to come on that.

[Faithwilldo]

On 1/10/2019 at 7:38 PM, SisterCess said:

I had a chat with my brother in Christ and we were discussing about sinner's prayer until he mentioned that being born again is a process, that it is not just in a blink of an eye and you are born again.. is this true?? Cause base on my experience, I think it's not..

Salvation is definitely a process.  We must travel the broad path that leads to destruction AND only then can we travel the narrow path that leads to Christ.  

Matt 22:14  For many are called, but few are chosen.

Being "called" is when Christ first appears to a person and gives them an "earnest" amount of the Spirit and a small amount of faith.  At that time, the new believer remains spiritually blind and spiritually weak.  In this condition, they can easily be deceived by Satan.   When this happens (and it always does), the new believer falls away and spiritually dies.  Falling away means to fall back to "works" to try to please God.  It is the sin that leads to death.  No other sin will cause a believer to spiritually die. 

Heb 6:4-6  For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

As "typed" for us in Rev 13:3, our deadly head wound by Christ's sword is healed and the carnally minded Old Man continues to live.  At that point, the fallen away believer symbolically lives in the wilderness where Satan dwells.  They then become a "worse creature" than BEFORE they were "called" to follow Christ. 

Mat 12:43-45  When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.  44  Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.  45  Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

In the wilderness they mature to become a "man of sin" (I will discuss this later below).   No one can escape this process.  Scripture says that we must follow "every" word that proceeded from the mouth of God:

Matt 4:4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Not even God's Elect can escape this broad path.  For those who are only "called", they will physically die in this fallen away condition and will be later resurrected with the unbelievers.  For those who are "called" and also "chosen", Christ will appear a second time to them and when He comes, He will bring salvation.

Heb 9:28  So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

PAUL'S CONVERSION

Paul's conversion "typed" the full path that a person must travel to be saved.  

1Tim 1:16  Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a PATTERN to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.  

In order to understand the “pattern”, we must spiritually understand the steps of Paul’s conversion as recorded for us in Acts 9:3-19.   This will take a little time but I will summarize it the best I can.

Here is the path that Paul laid down:  

This first set of verses below represent Paul’s time of being Called into the Church.  This is the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Acts 9:3-9  And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:  4  And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?  5  And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.  6  And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.  7  And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.  8  And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.  9  And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

These events which happened to Paul "type" the process that we all must go through in order to be "called".      

The key parts of Paul’s calling are underlined in the verses above and are explained below verse by verse. 

Verse 3:  And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:   

When an individual is called out from this world to follow Christ, Christ will appear to them suddenly and without invitation.  We do not have the free will ability to choose Christ as is commonly taught in the Church.   Christ’s gifts and calling are without repentance (Rom 11:29) and are by His will and not ours (John 1:12-13).  When Christ does appear to us, it is a spiritual event that happens within us (Luk 17:21).  Christ cannot be seen with human eyes.                                                                                                                                                               

Verses 4 & 5:  And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?   And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

When Christ spiritually appears to an unbeliever, they immediately fall to the earth.  This symbolizes their carnality and their having risen up out of the sea of humanity to dwell on the earth.   Since the new believer remains carnally minded and spiritually blind, they cannot recognize the “voice” that calls to them.  They must rely on being told who He is.  Since Paul answers back to the voice as “Lord”, we know that this event is the Early Rain of the Spirit upon the individual (1Cor 12:3).  We call Him Lord but lack the ability to know Him for ourselves.  He remains hidden from our understanding.                                                                                                                                        

Verse 6:   And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

From our carnal perspective, we believe that we must produce good works to please the Lord and that is why Paul immediately asks “what wilt thou have me to do?”  The Lord answers him by saying to arise and go into the city.  The “city” represents the Great City which is Sodom and Egypt.  Once in the city, someone (Church leaders) will tell him what he must do.   At that point, the new believer “falls away”.

Verse 7:  And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

No one with Paul experienced what Paul did.  This appearance by Christ is only for the person who has been “called” by Christ.   It is a completely spiritual event – meaning it happens “between our ears”.  

Verse 8:  And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 

After Paul opens his eyes, he “saw no man”.  This blindness of Paul’s represents his spiritual blindness.   It goes on to say that Paul had to be led by the hand.  This explains why a new believer readily follows the false doctrines of the Church (the blind leading the blind).  The new believer has no ability to follow Christ for themselves.  They are forced to follow other men (the teachings of the carnally minded, spiritually blind Church). 

Verse 9:  And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

Paul was blind and sick in bed for 3 days.  The number “3” represents spiritual death.   Paul’s time of blindness & death represents the time of Tribulation that each new believer must endure.  It is the time of our “falling away” (2Thes 2:3).  The new believer is now unknowingly in this harlot state and has no ability to know the Truth.   

Since Paul cannot receive the true bread from Heaven while in this spiritually darkened state, the scripture says that Paul does not “eat or drink” during the 3 days.   It is at this point that the new believer becomes a Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition.   He is now “fallen away” and tries to please God through works of the flesh.  Just the simple belief in the Doctrine of “Free Will” will cause a believer to fall away.  By believing in that doctrine, we take credit for making the “right choice” to follow Christ when in fact, we are not responsible for that decision – Christ is.  He gave us that gift of faith before we repented (Just as Paul “typed” for us on the road to Damascus).   Our salvation (every step of the way) is 100% the work of Christ.         

The second set of verses below represent Christ’s second coming to Paul (after the 3 days are fulfilled).                                                                                 

Acts 9:15  But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:  16  For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.  17  And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.  18  And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.  19  And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

Here are my associated comments with the underlined portions of the above scriptures.

Verse 15:  But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

Here we are told that Paul is “chosen” regardless of His current fallen away state and that Paul will bear Christ's name to the world.  All of God’s Chosen vessels will likewise bear Christ’s name to this world.

Verse 16:  For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

When we truly follow Christ in this world, we will suffer for it, no exceptions (Rom 8:17 & John 15:20).                       

Verse 17:  And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 

Ananias symbolizes Christ who will come to His Chosen to give them sight (spiritual understanding) and the Holy Spirit.                                                                                                                   

Verse 18:  And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

When Christ comes a second time to those who have been Called & Chosen, among the gifts that He gives them are spiritual understanding, spiritual life and the Holy Spirit.   This event is called the Latter Rain of the Spirit or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.         

Verse 19:  And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

After these “gifts” from Christ, Paul “eats” of the true bread from heaven (Truth) and is spiritually strengthened.   

Once Paul receives his nourishment from Christ, the Truth destroys Paul’s religious carnal nature (the Great city Babylon/Sodom/Egypt/earthly Jerusalem /Man of Sin) which taught him to approach God through works of the flesh. 

Rev 18:10  Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Now that the Great City is destroyed within Paul, Paul is empowered by the Spirit to walk by faith in Christ (the New Wine/Blood of Christ), the true and narrow pathway that leads to God.   Paul can now begin drinking the New Wine.

Christ speaks of the Old Wine (Old Covenant of Law) vs. the New Wine (the New Covenant of Grace by faith) in the verse below:

Luk 5:39  No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

Our carnal nature we have from birth prefers the Old Covenant of Law (Old Wine) and rejects the New Covenant of Grace by Faith (New Wine).  The religious aspect of our carnal nature wants to show God that we are somehow deserving of our salvation.  It has a strong need to prove that we are more deserving than the others who reject Christ.  The Church’s Doctrine of Feel Will was born from this need to prove our self-worth.  And if we have “self-worth”, then we do not need to die and be re-born as the scripture says we must.   But as with all mainstream doctrines, scripture does not support the Doctrine of Free Will:

Phil 2:13  For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Prov 16:1  The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24  Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

In our created condition we have from birth, we are unworthy to have a relationship with God.  We must be destroyed (spiritually speaking) and be “born again” if we are to ever be restored to the Father.  We must be made into a New Creature – the New Man in Christ.  This is the work of Christ.  We can take credit for NONE of it “lest any man should boast” (Eph 2:8-9).

Isa 64:8   But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Jer 18:4  And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

Rev 2:27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

All the verses of scripture that speak of destruction with accompanying lighting & thunder (commonly called “endtime prophecy”) are speaking of the destruction of this vessel of clay at our moment of conversion.   Luke chapter 21 and Matthew chapter 24 are speaking of the conversion process and not what is commonly taught in the church as end-time prophecy.   These verses are not speaking of Christ’s second coming to the world as is commonly taught in the church.  Christ will never return to the earth in that fashion.  But He does (is, was and will be coming, Rev 1:4) come a second time to each of us individually (spiritually, between our ears so to speak) and for the purpose of our salvation (conversion, destruction of the old vessel and creation of the new vessel).  It is a great & glorious return and without it, no one would ever be saved.  Christ said in Mat 24:34 that the generation he was speaking to at that time would not pass away until all the “end-time” (conversion) events he just spoke of were fulfilled.  They were fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost in the upper room and He has been fulfilling them down through the age to all His Elect since that time.  The Good News of the Gospel of Christ is that He will come to all mankind someday in this manner, if not in this present age, then in the final age.  Every eye will certainly see Him and He brings destruction and salvation with Him.

Rev 1:7  Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen

Continuing on now, the Latter Rain event which destroys our religious carnal nature is also described by Paul in his second letter to the church of the Thessalonians.

2Thes 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that Man of Sin be revealed, the son of perdition;  4  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 

In verse 1, Paul writes about the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together unto Him.  This appearance is the same as the “Day of Christ” (verse 2).  As with the Early Rain, the Latter Rain of the Spirit is not outwardly visible.  It is a spiritual event within the individual believer.  At this time, Christ gathers us to Himself to dwell with Him in the heavens.  The New Man is born within the believer. 

However, Paul says that the Day of the Lord cannot happen to a believer “except there come a falling away first and that Man of Sin be revealed”.   This “falling away” is the return to "works" for salvation and coupled with Satan’s lies and deceptions, a worsened carnal state is produced - the Man of Sin, the Son of Perdition.   

Only the Truth which is Jesus Christ can destroy this Man of Sin whom we have become.

2Thes 2:8  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

The spiritual terms “spirit of His mouth” & “brightness of His coming” represent Truth which we receive from the Holy Spirit.   It is the true bread from heaven.

From this point forward, if the believer remains faithful unto the end , his race will be won and he will be awarded the Crown of Righteousness.  He will be included in the First-fruits of the harvest and will have overcome this world (carnality) just as Christ overcame this world.   However, it is not by our works that this happens – it is by the work of Christ.  We are His workmanship and that is why salvation is guaranteed for all mankind.

1 Tim 2:3-6  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;  Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Joe

Edited July 12, 2020 by Faithwilldo

[Justin Adams]

On 1/11/2019 at 2:38 AM, SisterCess said:

I had a chat with my brother in Christ and we were discussing about sinner's prayer until he mentioned that being born again is a process, that it is not just in a blink of an eye and you are born again.. is this true?? Cause base on my experience, I think it's not..

It is a one time one moment thing. When you BELIEVE in the Lord Yeshua, you are reborn and your spirit is alive. Now it is HIS work to guide you thru the sanctification process.

If anyone tell you differently they are incorrect. For many centuries the 'church' has tried to muddy the waters with their take on the scriptures. Check out Naaman, and Widow, the thief on the cross.

Sanctification takes a lifetime. Being Saved takes but a moment's decision. Then you have to have Believing Loyalty because the adversary will throw you curveballs to try in derail you faith. Just stick with it. 

-------------

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

[Faithwilldo]

5 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

It is a one time one moment thing. When you BELIEVE in the Lord Yeshua, you are reborn and your spirit is alive. Now it is HIS work to guide you thru the sanctification process.

If anyone tell you differently they are incorrect. For many centuries the 'church' has tried to muddy the waters with their take on the scriptures. Check out Naaman, and Widow, the thief on the cross.

Sanctification takes a lifetime. Being Saved takes but a moment's decision. Then you have to have Believing Loyalty because the adversary will throw you curveballs to try in derail you faith. Just stick with it. 

-------------

For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.

Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

 

Yes, conversion happens in a moment of time (in the twinkling of an eye) when Christ appears to a chosen believer a second time. 

1 Cor 15:51  Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all fall asleep, but we shall all be changed, in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This verse is teaching on the moment of conversion.  It is not talking about the rapture - that is a totally false doctrine.  

But before conversion can happen, one must travel the broad path that leads to destruction.  Without destruction, one cannot be born again.  It is a long process that leads to that one moment of conversion. 

One must remember that the sum of God's Word is truth. 

Psa 119:160 The sum of Your word is truth, And all of Your righteous ordinances are age-enduring.

Truth is written in a "mystery" (another tongue) in bits and pieces that have to be added up in order to find the truth. 

1Cor 2:7  But we speak the wisdom of God in a MYSTERY, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Isa 28: 10-12  For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:  11  For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.  12  But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Why did God do it that way?  He did it that way keep His truth concealed so that all "called" believers will fall away.  If a fallen away believer is also "chosen", then Christ will come to them a second time and heal their spiritual vision.  It is only then that one can put all the pieces of scripture together to form truth.   Without truth, we cannot be sanctified.  

 "Another tongue" mentioned in Isa 28: 10-12 is the spiritual language of Christ.  To understand that language, one must have spiritual understanding (eyes and ears) that is only given to us by Christ when He comes to us a second time.  He comes to us when we are dwelling under Satan's influence in the "wilderness".   As Paul said, the Day of Christ will not come unless there is a falling away first.  We all must fall away.  We have no choice in the matter.  While we are in that fallen away condition, we believe we are living in "peace and safety" but in reality, we are fully deceived by Satan who masquerades as an angel of light (Christ).  It is all part of the pathway that takes us to destruction and then on to salvation. 

A portion of the pathway is also told to us in Christ's healing of the blind man in Mark chapter 8:

Mark 8:15-18  And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod.  16  And they reasoned among themselves, saying, It is because we have no bread.  17  And when Jesus knew it, he saith unto them, Why reason ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?  18  Having eyes, see ye not? and having ears, hear ye not? and do ye not remember?  19  When I brake the five loaves among five thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? They say unto him, Twelve.  20  And when the seven among four thousand, how many baskets full of fragments took ye up? And they said, Seven.  21  And he said unto them, How is it that ye do not understand?

In these verses, Christ is giving His disciples a lesson on spiritual language - His language.  At this point in time (before Pentecost), the disciples have not received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and were spiritually blind.  They simply could not understand what Christ was teaching them.  After Christ’s short lesson, He ends it by asking them this question:  “How is it that ye do not understand”?  No response is recorded in scripture, however, Christ answers His own question in the very next 4 verses. 

Mark 8:22-25  And he cometh to Bethsaida; and they bring a blind man unto him, and besought him to touch him.  23  And he took the blind man by the hand, and led him out of the town; and when he had spit on his eyes, and put his hands upon him, he asked him if he saw ought.  24  And he looked up, and said, I see men as trees, walking.  25  After that he put his hands again upon his eyes, and made him look up: and he was restored, and saw every man clearly.

Christ speaks to us not only through His words which are recorded in scripture but also by the things that He did.   In answering the question that He proposed to the disciples in verse 21, He goes to Bethsaida and gives us His answer through the type and shadow of His healing of a blind man. 

In these verses, Christ leads a blind man out of the city.  These actions by Christ spiritually represent the time when an unbeliever is "called" out from the world and into the Church.  Once outside the city, Christ places spit (symbolizes the Holy Spirit) on his eyes and touches him with His hands.  These actions by Christ occur as the blind man is looking down.  This symbolizes the carnal aspect of the blind man’s healing.  After Christ asks him what he could see, the blind man looks up and says that he could see men walking as trees.  "Walking as trees" is a symbol for man's truth that comes from the earth (our carnal nature).  It is not Christ's truth which only comes from heaven.  The man’s blindness was not total any longer but he was still very near-sighted.  This “first healing” of the blind man reflects our spiritual condition when we first enter the Church.  It is the time of the "early rain" or Paul's Damascus road experience.  At that time, we are left carnally minded and spiritually near-sighted.  Peter says this condition is the same as being blind:

2Pet 4:19  But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.       

In the final verse of the story, Christ lays His hands upon the man’s eyes again but this time, Christ has the man “look up”.  This second healing represents the Baptism of the Holy Spirit when true spiritual vision is given to the believer.  The man’s upward gaze represents this heavenly aspect of the healing.  From that moment onward, we know that the blind man is a Chosen believer.  He was first Called Out from the world and then he was Chosen to be “born again” as a First Fruit of Christ’s Harvest of mankind.   

There a pathway that everyone must follow.  It has a wide gate and a broad path.  Until we arrive at the end of that pathway, we will not be saved.  Most believers will die in the wilderness just as the Israelites who wandered in the wilderness for 40 years did.  All but Joshua and Caleb (symbols of the Chosen) died in the wilderness and did not get to cross the Jordan River into the Promised Land.  The many "called" are "typed" by the Israelites who died in the wilderness.  But if one is "called and chosen", Christ will make sure that they will live through their time of testing and cross the Jordan River.  It is at that point that we start traveling the narrow path and start defeating the "giants in the land" (the strongholds of our carnal nature).  

Joe

Edited July 12, 2020 by Faithwilldo

[LonerAndy]

On 1/10/2019 at 9:38 PM, SisterCess said:

I had a chat with my brother in Christ and we were discussing about sinner's prayer until he mentioned that being born again is a process, that it is not just in a blink of an eye and you are born again.. is this true?? Cause base on my experience, I think it's not..

When you are born again as a Christian, and your name is written down in the book of life, I don't think that happens over time.

I don't think they write down "A" and then "n" and if you try hard "d" and hopefully if you really work at it, they put the "y" and then you are like finally "Andy" is in the book of life.

It's either you accept that Jesus died for sins, and is savior of your life... or you don't.   You are either in the book of life, or you are not.

Now what does sometimes take time, and is a process, is that of renewing your life and mind.

Some people are simply changed instantly from their bondage.  Some people do drugs, and get saved, and never do drugs every again for the rest of their entire lives.

However, some people have to struggle with it for decades.  They slowly grow and learn, and get better at living the Christian life, and are set free from the sins that hold them back, over a period of time.

But no, I don't think that being saved itself, is a long process.  You are either in, or out.