Guest 1sheep Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 5 hours ago, Neighbor said: I have immediate neighbors that live very well on section 8 and the combination of government benefits that they get. They do not work, never have worked. They just breed more of the same that grow up and become more criminals in the neighborhood. The police get called out to this house numerous times a year. The absentee home owner gets their large monthly check and let the property run down. The family members in this house young and old get arrested by police often raiding it with their guns drawn a few times a year. That shows up on reports about the neighbor raising insurance rates and lowering property values. There are police stakeouts in the neighborhood when police are looking for one or more of them. Yet they keep on getting out of court without lengthy prison sentences and they continue to get their housing, very nice housing. They get their food, they get clothing, and they drive multiple brand new vehicles too. They literally make more money than the working people in the neighborhood. They live high. There is also locally a market for Maine lobster that booms when the food coupons come in each month here. The local area with the most people on the food coupon program use their coupons to buy Maine lobsters and then resell them at a discounted price to small retailers. The Large food chains buy extra lobsters for the stores at the community area with the most people on the program. I think President Reagan had it right when he used the phrase welfare queen, and managed to get a two year limit on welfare changing it to workfare when he was president. Since then it has been turned around to where their is a permanent criminal class that gets to live very nicely and ruin the neighborhoods they come into. 'This' is what is wrong with the system. Wow. Sounds like a terrible neighborhood. I didnt know a person could buy lobster with an ebt card. The system is broken and has been for decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted January 12, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,696 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,515 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted January 12, 2019 2 hours ago, LadyKay said: Alright then. I will consider your point of view. So what would happen if the gov. just stop doing anything about the poor? I think we could look back at history and get our answer. Because I think there was a time in our history that the gov. did not help with the needy. (I'm going to go google stuff see what I can find) Oh I love doing history research! This will be fun! I think the government only stepped in once the church stopped...when we stopped teaching Christian values in this nation, when God was no longer welcome to be spoken in public, people started becoming self absorbed and stopped helping people the way they did, so the government stepped in. And unless the demand for government assistance goes away, its not going to,as much as id like it to. The solution is two fold. Your right we cant just rip it out from people. I think it does need to go away, but in order to do it properly we, as in the church need to up our game and start helping as many as possible. Not necessarily with handouts, but helping people not only with food and housing but also help them find jobs and gain financial independence. We need to "teach them to fish" so to speak. I think once we start doing that, and living up to our potential in how we help others, the demand for government assistance will go down, to the point that if someone says "lets get rid of welfare" no one panics or even cares. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted January 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2019 12 minutes ago, The_Patriot2018 said: I think the government only stepped in once the church stopped...when we stopped teaching Christian values in this nation, when God was no longer welcome to be spoken in public, people started becoming self absorbed and stopped helping people the way they did, so the government stepped in. And unless the demand for government assistance goes away, its not going to,as much as id like it to. snip ... I remember the government informing the church that they are not doing their job properly and it was time they took over. The church did not take God out of our lives, unbelievers did through the legal process, twisting the 1st Amendment from keeping them separate so the government could not tell someone how to worship to not allowing God into public places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKay Posted January 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 385 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 7,692 Content Per Day: 1.93 Reputation: 4,809 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, The_Patriot2018 said: I think the government only stepped in once the church stopped...when we stopped teaching Christian values in this nation, when God was no longer welcome to be spoken in public, people started becoming self absorbed and stopped helping people the way they did, so the government stepped in. From my reading it seems that the gov. step in when the churches and other charities became overwhelmed with so many needy people being in need. Also I am not sure when you think the churches stop teaching about Christian values so then the gov had to step in and help people? Because as early as the 1800s and even before, gov was playing a roll in helping the poor in someway of another. I'm still looking into the history of this. Edited January 12, 2019 by LadyKay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted January 12, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,696 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,515 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, OneLight said: I remember the government informing the church that they are not doing their job properly and it was time they took over. The church did not take God out of our lives, unbelievers did through the legal process, twisting the 1st Amendment from keeping them separate so the government could not tell someone how to worship to not allowing God into public places. In a way your right, the unbelievers were the ones doing it, but the reason they got away with it-and are still getting away with it, is the complicity of the church. Many dont want to make waves or believe the church should be silent, add into that all the division in the church and its a largely inneffective entity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted January 12, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,696 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,515 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, LadyKay said: From my reading it seems that the gov. step in when the churches and other charities became overwhelmed with so many needy people being in need. Also I am not sure when you think the churches stop teaching about Christian values so then the gov had to step in and help people? Because as early as the 1800s and even before, gov was playing a roll in helping the poor in someway of another. I'm still looking into the history of this. There were various programs but welfare really didn't become a thing until the 1920s, and even then it isnt what it is today. It slowly grew into the monstrosity it is today largely during the 20th century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKay Posted January 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 385 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 7,692 Content Per Day: 1.93 Reputation: 4,809 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2019 1 hour ago, OneLight said: The church did not take God out of our lives, unbelievers did No one has taken God out of my life. No one can take God out of anyone's life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade8888 Posted January 12, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 81 Content Per Day: 0.04 Reputation: 30 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/31/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, The_Patriot2018 said: I make it a goal to help many people...if you really want to go personal. How about you, after all the Bible says to "love thy neighbor" and to care for the sick and the needy, nowhere does it say to let the government do it for you. Actually, in the OT Law, there are commandments to help the poor: The corners of a field and all of the gleanings of a field were required to go to the poor. Then there is the Year of Jubilee, which resets the economy by taking all of the land from the rich people and distributing it to everyone evenly. Then there is the Sabbath Year law, in which you weren't supposed to plant crops on a field in the seventh year, you were supposed to live on whatever grew wild, but technically the law didn't say all of your land had to obey the Sabbath on the same year, so you could probably rotate your fields and be okay, but what grew wild on the field belonged to the poor and the "strangers" among the people. IN the Book of Acts, on two occasions the early believers are observed in communistic behavior, selling and giving away all of their possessions to the poor. In one place it literally says that they didn't count anything as their own, but had all things "common" (communism). So yes, the Bible says a lot about poverty, you just have to look in the right places. American pastors are against "socialism" because they make a lot of money off everyone else's 10%, but in the early church it was not so. Tithe and offering went to widows and orphans, not "fat cat preachers". As far as I know, the only Israeli king who actually observed the Sabbath year laws and the year of Jubilee was Hezekiah, and even then, God said it was too late to avoid the punishment from all the sabbaths they broke. Edited January 12, 2019 by Wade8888 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Patriot21 Posted January 12, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 28 Topic Count: 338 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 15,696 Content Per Day: 2.46 Reputation: 8,515 Days Won: 39 Joined: 10/25/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/27/1985 Share Posted January 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Wade8888 said: Actually, in the OT Law, there are commandments to help the poor: The corners of a field and all of the gleanings of a field were required to go to the poor. Then there is the Year of Jubilee, which resets the economy by taking all of the land from the rich people and distributing it to everyone evenly. Then there is the Sabbath Year law, in which you weren't supposed to plant crops on a field in the seventh year, you were supposed to live on whatever grew wild, but technically the law didn't say all of your land had to obey the Sabbath on the same year, so you could probably rotate your fields and be okay, but what grew wild on the field belonged to the poor and the "strangers" among the people. IN the Book of Acts, on two occasions the early believers are observed in communistic behavior, selling and giving away all of their possessions to the poor. In one place it literally says that they didn't count anything as their own, but had all things "common" (communism). So yes, the Bible says a lot about poverty, you just have to look in the right places. American pastors are against "socialism" because they make a lot of money off everyone else's 10%, but in the early church it was not so. Tithe and offering went to widows and orphans, not "fat cat preachers". As far as I know, the only Israeli king who actually observed the Sabbath year laws and the year of Jubilee was Hezekiah, and even then, God said it was too late to avoid the punishment from all the sabbaths they broke. I never denied that, in fact you will notice I alluded to that multiple times-but nowhere in old testament law does it have the government taking care of the poor, even in the cases of gleaning the fields-it was private entities doing the helping, not the government. Nowhere in the Bible does it have the government helping people. You seem to be under the belief that because i dont believe in government assistance that i dont think we should help others-and its a mistaken belief. 2 hours ago, maryjayne said: In the UK, governmental welfare Has been going for over 200 years. I am currently reading Charles Dickens "Our Mutual Friend" which talks about Poor Law, Workhouses and Parish Shares. welfare is implemented in many countries, but that doesnt change the point I have been trying to make in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKay Posted January 12, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 12 Topic Count: 385 Topics Per Day: 0.10 Content Count: 7,692 Content Per Day: 1.93 Reputation: 4,809 Days Won: 3 Joined: 05/28/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, The_Patriot2018 said: welfare is implemented in many countries, but that doesnt change the point I have been trying to make in the slightest. So....what is your point again? I'm a bit confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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