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Wayne222

Section 8 and food stamps.

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1 hour ago, The_Patriot2018 said:

I think the government only stepped in once the church stopped...when we stopped teaching Christian values in this nation, when God was no longer welcome to be spoken in public, people started becoming self absorbed and stopped helping people the way they did, so the government stepped in.

From my reading it seems that the gov. step in when the churches and other charities became overwhelmed with so many needy people being in need.   Also I am not sure when you think the churches stop teaching about Christian values so then the gov had to step in and help people?  Because as early as the 1800s and even before, gov was playing a roll in helping the poor in someway of another. 

I'm still looking into the history of this. 

 

Edited by LadyKay

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1 hour ago, OneLight said:

I remember the government informing the church that they are not doing their job properly and it was time they took over.  The church did not take God out of our lives, unbelievers did through the legal process, twisting the 1st Amendment from keeping them separate so the government could not tell someone how to worship to not allowing God into public places.

In a way your right, the unbelievers were the ones doing it, but the reason they got away with it-and are still getting away with it, is the complicity of the church. Many dont want to make waves or believe the church should be silent, add into that all the division in the church and its a largely inneffective entity

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1 hour ago, LadyKay said:

From my reading it seems that the gov. step in when the churches and other charities became overwhelmed with so many needy people being in need.   Also I am not sure when you think the churches stop teaching about Christian values so then the gov had to step in and help people?  Because as early as the 1800s and even before, gov was playing a roll in helping the poor in someway of another. 

I'm still looking into the history of this. 

 

There were various programs but welfare really didn't become a thing until the 1920s, and even then it isnt what it is today. It slowly grew into the monstrosity it is today largely during the 20th century.

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1 hour ago, OneLight said:

The church did not take God out of our lives, unbelievers did

No one has taken God out of my life. No one can take God out of anyone's life.  

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19 hours ago, The_Patriot2018 said:

I make it a goal to help many people...if you really want to go personal. How about you, after all the Bible says to "love thy neighbor" and to care for the sick and the needy, nowhere does it say to let the government do it for you.

Actually, in the OT Law, there are commandments to help the poor:

The corners of a field and all of the gleanings of a field were required to go to the poor.

 

Then there is the Year of Jubilee, which resets the economy by taking all of the land from the rich people and distributing it to everyone evenly.

 

Then there is the Sabbath Year law, in which you weren't supposed to plant crops on a field in the seventh year, you were supposed to live on whatever grew wild, but technically the law didn't say all of your land had to obey the Sabbath on the same year, so you could probably rotate your fields and be okay, but what grew wild on the field belonged to the poor and the "strangers" among the people.

 

IN the Book of Acts, on two occasions the early believers are observed in communistic behavior, selling and giving away all of their possessions to the poor. In one place it literally says that they didn't count anything as their own, but had all things "common" (communism).

 

So yes, the Bible says a lot about poverty, you just have to look in the right places.

 

American pastors are against "socialism" because they make a lot of money off everyone else's 10%, but in the early church it was not so. Tithe and offering went to widows and orphans, not "fat cat preachers".

 

As far as I know, the only Israeli king who actually observed the Sabbath year laws and the year of Jubilee was Hezekiah, and even then, God said it was too late to avoid the punishment from all the sabbaths they broke.

Edited by Wade8888
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32 minutes ago, The_Patriot2018 said:

There were various programs but welfare really didn't become a thing until the 1920s, and even then it isnt what it is today. It slowly grew into the monstrosity it is today largely during the 20th century.

In the UK, governmental welfare Has been going for over 200 years. I am currently reading Charles Dickens "Our Mutual Friend" which talks about Poor Law, Workhouses and Parish Shares.

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3 hours ago, Wade8888 said:

Actually, in the OT Law, there are commandments to help the poor:

The corners of a field and all of the gleanings of a field were required to go to the poor.

 

Then there is the Year of Jubilee, which resets the economy by taking all of the land from the rich people and distributing it to everyone evenly.

 

Then there is the Sabbath Year law, in which you weren't supposed to plant crops on a field in the seventh year, you were supposed to live on whatever grew wild, but technically the law didn't say all of your land had to obey the Sabbath on the same year, so you could probably rotate your fields and be okay, but what grew wild on the field belonged to the poor and the "strangers" among the people.

 

IN the Book of Acts, on two occasions the early believers are observed in communistic behavior, selling and giving away all of their possessions to the poor. In one place it literally says that they didn't count anything as their own, but had all things "common" (communism).

 

So yes, the Bible says a lot about poverty, you just have to look in the right places.

 

American pastors are against "socialism" because they make a lot of money off everyone else's 10%, but in the early church it was not so. Tithe and offering went to widows and orphans, not "fat cat preachers".

 

As far as I know, the only Israeli king who actually observed the Sabbath year laws and the year of Jubilee was Hezekiah, and even then, God said it was too late to avoid the punishment from all the sabbaths they broke.

I never denied that, in fact you will notice I alluded to that multiple times-but nowhere in old testament law does it have the government taking care of the poor, even in the cases of gleaning the fields-it was private entities doing the helping, not the government. Nowhere in the Bible does it have the government helping people. You seem to be under the belief that because i dont believe in government assistance that i dont think we should help others-and its a mistaken belief.

 

2 hours ago, maryjayne said:

In the UK, governmental welfare Has been going for over 200 years. I am currently reading Charles Dickens "Our Mutual Friend" which talks about Poor Law, Workhouses and Parish Shares.

welfare is implemented in many countries, but that doesnt change the point I have been trying to make in the slightest.

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18 minutes ago, The_Patriot2018 said:

welfare is implemented in many countries, but that doesnt change the point I have been trying to make in the slightest.

So....what is your point again? I'm a bit confused. 

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4 hours ago, LadyKay said:

No one has taken God out of my life. No one can take God out of anyone's life.  

I should of been clearer with this statement as I meant out of the schools and other public places, which, if you consider the absence of God in schools, led to Him being removed from children if their parents don't teach them.  We use to be able to talk about God, read His 10 commandments on the walls and say the Lords Prayer at the beginning of school.  These are just a few things that can no longer be done.  Yet, you are correct as nobody can remove God from our lives once we have Him and He has us.

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53 minutes ago, OneLight said:

We use to be able to talk about God, read His 10 commandments on the walls and say the Lords Prayer at the beginning of school.  These are just a few things that can no longer be done

You are still allowed to pray in school and talk about God. You just can't force others to pray against their will. 

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