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Hello everyone, I am pleased to have found this site.

I do NOT believe the Bible supports a 7 year tribulation, but instead does support a 3-1/2 year tribulation. 

Every reference in the Bible mentions only 3-1/2 years. Daniel 9 appears to be the root of the confusion. The Anti-Christ is somehow replacing the Messiah in the first half of the 70th week. However, if you realize that the first half of the 70th week was fulfilled in the ministry of Jesus (1260 "mornings and evenings" or 3-1/2 years) everything in prophecy after that will fall logically into place. All that remains is the final 1290-1335 days or 3-1/2 years plus an extra 40 days for the bowl judgments. 

If Daniel is speaking of the Messiah - then he must point out BOTH the first and second comings. The word used for "Prince" is specifically and uniquely used ONLY to refer to Jesus and speaks of both his first and second comings within the context of the prophecy. This word (Prince) is only used one other time in the entire book and it is shortly after when specifically pointing to the cross and events in the first century. Another key point to make is that if the cross is not included in the 70weeks prophecy (or AFTER the 69th week has ended)- then we all have a very BIG problem because that would mean Jesus is not the messiah and all the issues and problems that Jesus' death on the cross has accomplished/solved occurs OUTSIDE of the 70 week period. 

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Greetings and Welcome to Worthy!

I'd like to ask a couple of questions.

Firstly, How can the 70th week overlap the 69th week?

Quote

Daniel 9:26 (a): "And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;

In succession, there are 7 weeks, 62 weeks (Daniel 9:25), and then one week. Messiah was cut off after the 7 and 62, not halfway through 70. Just to understand, is your implication that "cut off" means the beginning of His ministry, rather than the end?

Secondly,

Quote

Daniel 9:26 (b): ...And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

If I'm understanding you correctly, you believe that in this context, the "prince who is to come" is referring to Messiah? If that is the case, when did his people destroy the city and the sanctuary?

 

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Thanks for commenting,

It's late for me, so I am being brief.

There is NO overlap at all. The 70th week began at the baptism of Jesus. The verse you mentioned also points out that the cross occurs AFTER the 69th week has ended. Thus, the cross (in a 7 year trib theory) is NOT part of the 70 weeks prophecy and CANNOT be considered as fulfilment for any part of it's purpose. Placing the cross at the midpoint of the 70th week WILL include it within the context of the prophecy.

"The people" of the "coming prince" would then refer to the ROMANS (future self proclaimed home of Christianity) in the first century. This is also covered in the final chapters of Daniel. As I said earlier, the 70 weeks prophecy points to TWO "Comings" of the Messiah and I believe reading the second 'prince' as the Anti-Christ leaves no reference in the passage for the returning Messiah. That is leaving out a very important part of the prophecy!

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3 minutes ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

"The people" of the "coming prince" would then refer to the ROMANS (future self proclaimed home of Christianity) in the first century. This is also covered in the final chapters of Daniel. As I said earlier, the 70 weeks prophecy points to TWO "Comings" of the Messiah and I believe reading the second 'prince' as the Anti-Christ leaves no reference in the passage for the returning Messiah. That is leaving out a very important part of the prophecy!

One problem (the main problem) that i would point out is that at the time that they destroyed Jerusalem and the Sanctuary they were firmly pagan and remained so for another three hundred years. In other words, if they became Christ's people (which is debatable in and of itself, because this is not at all anywhere mentioned even peripherally in scripture), they were certainly not so at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem. 

4 minutes ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

There is NO overlap at all. The 70th week began at the baptism of Jesus. The verse you mentioned also points out that the cross occurs AFTER the 69th week has ended. Thus, the cross (in a 7 year trib theory) is NOT part of the 70 weeks prophecy and CANNOT be considered as fulfilment for any part of it's purpose. Placing the cross at the midpoint of the 70th week WILL include it within the context of the prophecy.

With this I would have to disagree as well. If the cross occurs immediately at the end of the 69th week (when Messiah is cut off), then that would place Christ's ministry firmly within that framework of the 70 weeks prophecy. The second coming is definitely at the end of the 70th, which isn't specified within the prophecy itself, but nonetheless the second coming would certainly be in view as well, particularly if you take the entire counsel of the scripture into account.

I do, however, agree with you that the great tribulation itself is only the final three and a half years of the 70th week. I do believe that the entire 70th week is yet future, though.

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First 3.5 years : It begins when antichrist make peace covenant between Israel-Arabs

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

Another 3.5 years after the AOD :

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

Hello everyone, I am pleased to have found this site.

I do NOT believe the Bible supports a 7 year tribulation, but instead does support a 3-1/2 year tribulation. 

Every reference in the Bible mentions only 3-1/2 years. Daniel 9 appears to be the root of the confusion. The Anti-Christ is somehow replacing the Messiah in the first half of the 70th week. However, if you realize that the first half of the 70th week was fulfilled in the ministry of Jesus (1260 "mornings and evenings" or 3-1/2 years) everything in prophecy after that will fall logically into place. All that remains is the final 1290-1335 days or 3-1/2 years plus an extra 40 days for the bowl judgments. 

If Daniel is speaking of the Messiah - then he must point out BOTH the first and second comings. The word used for "Prince" is specifically and uniquely used ONLY to refer to Jesus and speaks of both his first and second comings within the context of the prophecy. This word (Prince) is only used one other time in the entire book and it is shortly after when specifically pointing to the cross and events in the first century. Another key point to make is that if the cross is not included in the 70weeks prophecy (or AFTER the 69th week has ended)- then we all have a very BIG problem because that would mean Jesus is not the messiah and all the issues and problems that Jesus' death on the cross has accomplished/solved occurs OUTSIDE of the 70 week period. 

I'm with you on this, have been saying this for years. Where we may differ is the "people of the prince". 

Sure Rome destroyed Jerusalem "like a flood" but just before that there was a Jewish civil war within the city where the 3 Jewish factions were fighting eachother with war machines to such an extent that all the buildings around the temple were flattened. The Jewish historian Josephus records how these evil Jewish leaders from the Galilean region were defiling the city and destroying it, and cross dressing and raping and stealing and murdering and cannibalising the population. Disgusting really. 

Thus Daniel 9:26 can read as follows:

After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people/kinsmen (GALILEAN JEWS) of the ruler  who will come (JESUS OF GALILEE) will schachath/RUIN the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood (ROMAN SOLDIERS END THE CITY through sudden destruction): War will continue until the end (ROMANS THEN ATTACK MASADA), and desolations have been decreed (1 million killed/Israel desolated/diaspora)

Edited by ARGOSY

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5 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

First 3.5 years : It begins when antichrist make peace covenant between Israel-Arabs

Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate,

Another 3.5 years after the AOD :

Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Everyone repeats this stuff that became popular in the 70s and 80s. But the only basis for a 7 year trib is an incorrect view of Daniel 9:27

Do you know that MOST translations have two characters in Dan 9:27, not one

ASV HE shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come ONE that maketh desolate

NKJV HE shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be ONE who makes desolate

As the opening post says, Jesus was cut off AFTER 483 years, not at that moment. At that moment was the coming of the anointed one, when Jesus started his ministry. 3.5 years later Jesus put an end to his life of sacrifice by allowing himself to be crucified/sacrificed on the cross. 

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6 hours ago, Steve_S said:

Greetings and Welcome to Worthy!

I'd like to ask a couple of questions.

Firstly, How can the 70th week overlap the 69th week?

In succession, there are 7 weeks, 62 weeks (Daniel 9:25), and then one week. Messiah was cut off after the 7 and 62, not halfway through 70. Just to understand, is your implication that "cut off" means the beginning of His ministry, rather than the end?

Secondly,

If I'm understanding you correctly, you believe that in this context, the "prince who is to come" is referring to Messiah? If that is the case, when did his people destroy the city and the sanctuary?

 

Excuse me as I butt in here.  The word is SHACHATH , its meaning is closer to "ruin" than "destroy" if you look at its complete bible usage. 

According to the historian Josephus, just before the Romans destroyed Jerusalem 3 Galilean leaders were having a civil war in Jerusalem. They were ruining the city both physically and morally , with many buildings destroyed and extreme corruption, theft, rape, cross dressing, murder of priests etc etc 

Galilean Jews were the countrymen of Jesus, the same region where he grew up (Nazareth) and then went to live as an adult (Capernaum).

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13 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

Hello everyone, I am pleased to have found this site.

I do NOT believe the Bible supports a 7 year tribulation, but instead does support a 3-1/2 year tribulation. 

Every reference in the Bible mentions only 3-1/2 years. Daniel 9 appears to be the root of the confusion. The Anti-Christ is somehow replacing the Messiah in the first half of the 70th week. However, if you realize that the first half of the 70th week was fulfilled in the ministry of Jesus (1260 "mornings and evenings" or 3-1/2 years) everything in prophecy after that will fall logically into place. All that remains is the final 1290-1335 days or 3-1/2 years plus an extra 40 days for the bowl judgments. 

If Daniel is speaking of the Messiah - then he must point out BOTH the first and second comings. The word used for "Prince" is specifically and uniquely used ONLY to refer to Jesus and speaks of both his first and second comings within the context of the prophecy. This word (Prince) is only used one other time in the entire book and it is shortly after when specifically pointing to the cross and events in the first century. Another key point to make is that if the cross is not included in the 70weeks prophecy (or AFTER the 69th week has ended)- then we all have a very BIG problem because that would mean Jesus is not the messiah and all the issues and problems that Jesus' death on the cross has accomplished/solved occurs OUTSIDE of the 70 week period. 

Jesus told us we would have "CONTINUAL TRIBULATION" so what is meant by Tribulation ?  Well those that came out of the GREAT TRIBULATION in Revelation 7:9-16 thus came out of the 2000 some odd year Church Age as in 2000 is GREATER than 7 as in 2000>7. 

Looking at it like that tells us that the 7 Years are all TRIBULATION also, in that all time on earth with Satan in control of this world is Tribulation. So the 7 year period will be Tribulation just like the 2000 some odd year Church Age period.....

BUT the Greatest Ever Tribulation will happen over a 3.5 year period or 3 1/2 year period just like you point towards. This is God's Wrath on Mankind.

So 2000 is greater than 7 thus the Church Age is the GREATEST PERIOD of time via Tribulation on earth and the 3.5 years of God's Wrath will be the GREATESTS TROUBLES EVER !!

The 70th week doesn't start until after the Rapture. 

Edited by Revelation Man

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2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Well those that came out of the GREAT TRIBULATION in Revelation 7:9-16 thus came out of the 2000 year Church Age as in 2000 is GREATER than 7 as in 2000>7. 

I like literally facepalmed.🤔

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      And he shall speak words against the Most High, and he shall wear out the saints of the Most High. And he intends to change times and law. And they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and one-half time. (Daniel 7:25 LITV)
      Daniel 7:23 Declares what was to come, the fourth beast. If the fourth beast is Islam, then that was initiated over 600 years after Christ's death by Muhammad.
      Born approximately in 570 CE in the Arabian city of Mecca,[9][10] Muhammad was orphaned at an early age; he was raised under the care of his paternal uncle Abu Talib. After his childhood, Muhammad primarily worked as a merchant.[11] Occasionally he would retreat to a cave in the mountains for several nights of seclusion and prayer; later, at age 40, he reported at this spot,[9][12] that he was visited by Gabriel and received his first revelation from God. Three years after this event Muhammad started preaching these revelations publicly, proclaiming that "God is One", that complete "surrender" (lit. islām) to Him is the only way (dīn)[n 3] acceptable to God, and that he was a prophet and messenger of God, similar to other Islamic prophets.[13][14][15] (From Wikipedia.)
      Islam has operated under various caliphates since the death of Muhammad in 632 AD (BCE). While all of them caused the Middle Eastern world grief, the largest most powerful were the Ottoman Caliphate.
      Ottoman Caliphate (1453/1517–1924)
      At the end of October 1922, the Allies invited the nationalist and Ottoman governments to a conference at Lausanne, Switzerland, but Atatürk was determined that the nationalist government should be Turkey's sole representative. In November 1922, the Grand National Assembly separated the offices of sultan and caliph and abolished the former. The assembly further stated that the Ottoman regime had ceased to be the government of Turkey when the Allies seized the capital in 1920, in effect abolishing the Ottoman Empire. Excerpt from, the Ottomans.org
      Is it possible that believers have been under attack for eighteen hundred years, without a doubt!
      Pay attention to another aspect of Islam.
      “The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in Ismailia, Egypt by Hassan al-Banna in March 1928 as an Islamist religious, political, and social movement.[1][2] The group spread to other Muslim countries but has its largest, or one of its largest, organizations in Egypt, where for many years it has been the largest, best-organized, and most disciplined political opposition force,[3][4][5] despite a succession of government crackdowns in 1948, 1954, 1965 after plots, or alleged plots, of assassination and overthrow were uncovered. Following the 2011 Revolution the group was legalized,[5] and in April 2011 it launched a civic political party called the Freedom and Justice Party (Egypt) to contest elections.” (Wikipedia)
      Notice that this is two years after the Caliphate was disbanded.
      “Links to the Nazis began during the 1930s and were close during the Second World War, involving agitation against the British, espionage and sabotage, as well as support for terrorist activities orchestrated by Haj Amin el-Hussaini in British Mandate Palestine, as a wide range of declassified documents from the British, American and Nazi German governmental archives, as well as from personal accounts and memoirs from that period, confirm.[7] Reflecting this connection the Muslim Brotherhood also disseminated Hitler's Mein Kampf and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion widely in Arab translations, helping to deepen and extend already existing hostile views about Jews and Western societies generally.[8]” (Wikipedia)
      The point to this is that Islam has been a destructive thorn in the flesh of those who do not comply for over 1800 years. Have they been a global threat throughout their history, no, but it took a global response to subdue them in 1922. I think we can agree that they are global now, and a greater threat than ever before. Aside from that, their prime directive is to kill the people of the book, which would be the Jew and the Christian. Have you noticed that they are making a serious dent in their goals?
      If you have watched the news the last couple of years, then you are aware of Christians that are being slaughtered in the mid-East and African nations. Perhaps you have also noticed that attacks against any group outside of Islam are fair game to them. Buddhists, Catholics, you name it. They even fight each other as though there is a competition to see who can follow the Qur’an most precisely. Unfortunately, for the outsider, while the Qur’an does have passages devoted to peace, they are superseded by newer passages that demand a strict and violent compliance.
      I think it is evident that there is affliction directed at Christians in certain parts of the world. Not to be left out of this violence against Christians is China and North Korea. I suppose the question is, how long until this level of violence comes to the Americas and afflicts us as well?
      Do not think that your non-belief will protect you. In general, Islam feels that any American is a Christ follower and worthy of death. Scripture tells me that you may have a chance to reject God and accept Allah as your God of choice, bowing before him in worship. Perhaps that will save your neck for the moment. I am aware that they cut a man’s head off anyway, possibly because they felt he was a coward with no backbone. I suspect it will not be as easy as that, and they may not have the time to await your decision. Of course, giving into this cuts you off from any hope of a relationship with God. In other words, there is no turning back from this decision.
      If you do not know this Jesus Christ, you can. Ask him into your life, and turn yourself over to him and accept his forgiveness. Allow him to run it. You do not have to work for your salvation, as it is free and paid for, you merely have to receive this life and salvation. You will experience a peace that you have never known before and a promise that he will come for you so that you can live with him in glory.
    • By Omegaman 3.0
      I have, for the most part, not commented on many of the passages we have read in our Bible readings. Part of this is because I am lazy, but part of it is also, because we have the Worthy Christian Forums where discussion already goes on, and it is a place where Many views are represented.
      When I set up the Bible 365 Club, one of the things I wanted to accomplish, was just to get people into God's word and read it, without the need for squabbling.
      Here in Daniel 12, I don't think it is proper for me, to not draw attention to some connections to the New Testament. Reading the Bible for the sake of reading it, is not to get it's full benefit, we want also to understand what we are reading.
      With that said, I am not attempting here, to use this as a soap box for my particular views, but I do think I have a responsibility to connect some of the dots, since some Bible 365 Club members may be encountering some verses and concepts for the first time.
      By providing some Bible passages outside of our reading assignments or schedule, we can broaden our understanding a little, and begin to make some of the connections that we can examine, and hopefully the Holy Spirit will aid our understanding.
      In Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, Jesus is speaking with His disciples about the time of the end. Those are good chapters to read to broaden our understanding about the things of the end. However, here we are in Daniel 12, so what are the connections I am alluding to?
      Quoting from Matt 24:15 (NIV in this case) Jesus said to His disciples:
      “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’a spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—"
      and in Mark 13:14 it reads:
      “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’a standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand— 
      These passages make reference to a coming abomination, and desolation, and the Matthew one tells us that this is spoken of in Daniel. In Daniel 12:11, here is a connection:
      11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days."
      This is a perfect example of a principle of Bible study, comparing scripture with scripture. Here we have something in the Old Testament, that is difficult to understand, or at least might make us wonder. However, in the New Testament, we get some explanation and elaboration.
      Now, if you read the New Testament passages that I mentioned in Matt, Mark and Luke, you might well have more questions than answers, but at least you will understand with a little more detail, something about Daniel 12.
      Just to give you some more connections, more things to file in the back of you mind, allow me to point out some concepts or details to take note of, that will help you to make associations in other chapters of various books of the Bible.
      Not going to get into it deeply here, but notice in Dan 12:11, not only the abomination of desolation, but, the specific 1290 days. Be mindful of that number, and of numbers that the Bible is going to bring up from time to time, in the context of the end times.
      Examples, 1260 days, time, times, and half a time, 3 and a half, the week and the middle of the week.
      Also of interest in this connection, is the concept of "great tribulation". Jesus uses that description in Matt 24:
      21For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.
      In this case, the NIV says great distress. The word distress is the Greek word  "thlípsis". Many versions use the word "tribulation". It basically means pressure. To understand the word better, see http://biblehub.com/greek/2347.htm
      I do, however, want to make another connection, so we can again, see that Jesus and the book of Daniel, are referring to the same thing. Again, Jesus said in Matt 24:21
      "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again."
      Notice that in this distress or tribulation, is unique, not having an equal previously, not in the future. How does Daniel describe this? From 12:1:
      “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then."
      It is also note-worthy, that Michael is mentioned. You probably know, that Michael is an archangel. That ties in to this (probably) if you look at 1 Thess 4:16, and comparing that verse or passage, with the Matt 24 one.
      I am not trying to send you down all sorts of side trails, but these things are all related. Going to stop at this point, and move along. Thanks for reading what I have said here, and especially for reading the Bible itself.
    • By Mary8
      The Feasts Fulfilled
      from 18 Feb 1991ml   I have made some changes.  See end for notes.

      Passover
         Jews in ancient Israel were required to go to Jerusalem to celebrate three feasts, Passover, Pentecost, and in the autumn, Trumpets.
         Jesus fulfilled Passover which occurred on a full moon, the 14th day of the month Nisan. 
         Passover celebrates the Exodus from Egypt, which bespeaks salvation, escape, deliverance.
         Nisan 1 commences at the New Moon, as do all months on the Jewish calendar.  This month should mark the beginning of the year by Jews (rather than in September/October as they presently observe, the Civil Year.)
         Ex. 12:1-3:  "And the Lord spoke unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months:  it shall be the first month of the year to you.  Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb .... a lamb for an house."
         Jesus, the slain Lamb, is the only acceptable sacrifice, and believers trust in the Blood of the Lamb and are thereby saved.

      Unleavened Bread
         Jesus fulfilled the Feast of Unleavened Bread which commenced the same day as Passover, on the 14th day of Nisan, and it was a seven day period of eating bread without leavening, which represents sin.  This feast was fulfilled before God only, as Jesus, the sinless one was lifted up before God.

      Firstfruits
         Jesus fulfilled Firstfruits by arising from the grave on the third day after His death.  The term Firstfruits refers to the first sheaves of barley which were ready to cut and Jesus's resurrection is the  fulfillment.  [Lev. 23:10.]  Many saved people were also resurrected from their graves and walked about the Jerusalem area at the time of Jesus's resurrection.  This first group of resurrected saints compares to the Rapture of believers as the world goes on around the event.
         I believe the Rapture of the Church is shown in the following Scriptures.  Jesus the grain, died, brought forth much fruit, and His Church is likened to a harvest of grain.  Jesus often likened Himself to a husbandman also, and here He is waiting for the precious fruit, the gathering of the harvest of souls.
         John 12:24  Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
         James 5:7  Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
         The barley and wheat harvests in Israel are the early crops, with the earliest, the barley harvest completed in April, and the wheat completed in May.  This year of 2018, Passover commences Friday evening, March 30, and the counting of the days, Lag b'Omer, and Omer 1 starts on March 31.  Jesus arose on Firstfruits, "the morrow after the Sabbath," Sunday, and in 2018, Firstfruits is Sunday, April 1, through Saturday, April 7.   The Lag b'Omer ends on the 50th day, the morrow after the Sabbath, which is Pentecost.  Lev. 23.  Centuries ago, the Jewish calendar was changed, and Pentecost was shifted from always being on a Sunday 'the morrow after the Sabbath,' to Sivan 6.  This year of 2018, Sivan 6 happens to fall on Pentecost Sunday.  
         These days are for me a time of considering whether He may gather us during the period of the grain harvest.
          Lev. 23:10-11 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:  And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 
         The people were not to eat of the grain until it had been waved before the Lord.
         We see a picture of a time of rejoicing for Israel revealed in the story of old Naomi, and her restoration and joy in having a little boy to care for in her old age.  Ruth was married and taken into Boaz's house and lifted out of her time of gleaning in the field.  The son of Boaz, Obed, is born.  Others have noted that the book of Ruth is like the story of the Church and the Lord Jesus, and I think there is also this parallel to Israel revealed in Naomi's story, that Jesus is like Boaz, and when He and the Church are wed in heaven, a son will be born, the sealed servants in Israel. 
         Naomi will be brought back to joys she had thought were lost forever.  Just as Obed means "serving," so the end time, 144,000 believing Jews will be excellent servants of God  as we are told in Revelation.  Naomi means "pleasantness" but she said she had become bitterness.  Naomi's joy will return.   Other types of these victorious, believing Jews are seen in the three young men in the fiery furnace; in Elisha; and in Ephraim, the younger son of Joseph; and in Benjamin.

      Pentecost
         I believe the harvest of grain in springtime points to the season of the coming of the Lord for His believers.  The increase of the grain, the harvest reveals the way He has multiplied His believers like a sower who cultivates His field.
         Pentecost celebrates the giving of the law, and occurs after seven sabbaths, on a Sunday ("the morrow after the sabbath") according to Scripture, (making it another reason for us to worship on Sunday, the day Christ arose). 
         This fulfillment occurred when the Holy Spirit fell upon the gathered believers, as Jesus had promised.  He came with a noise of a mighty wind, and the separated 120 believers saw the flames of fire on one another's heads.  Believers spoke in other tongues, telling about Jesus to people of other nations.  Just as fire came on Sinai as the law was given, so fire came on the Church in Jerusalem.
         Observance on Sunday has been set aside by the Jews as explained above.
         Tradition says that Enoch was born on Pentecost and was also taken up by God on Pentecost.

      Feast of Trumpets
         Next is the Feast of Trumpets, a convocation of trumpets, and all Jews are to gather in Jerusalem.  Some think the convocation of trumpets will be fulfilled  by believers going up to heaven, being gathered to Him, and that Jesus, as High Priest, will blow the trumpet ['the trump of God'  I Thes.]  just as occurred at this feast in Israel near sundown on the evening before the new moon of Tishri 1 when the High Priest blew the shofar to gather the people, who were to immediately go to the temple.

      The Day of Atonement
         The Day of Atonement was a solemn fast day when the Jews were not to work.   For thousands of years, annually on this day the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies and sprinkled the blood of a sacrifice and interceded for the people.  A rope was tied around his ankle in order to pull him out if he died in there and the sacrifice was not accepted.  Jesus went into the Holy of Holies before the Lord and made an atonement for us by the sprinkling of His own Blood. 
         After the Rapture of the believers, there will be, I believe, an awed multitude of Jews  who see that something has happened and many will seek the Lord.  I think this time of shock is revealed in the first chapter of the Book of Joel, and that following chapters describe the tribulation and their comfort as they find God has not forsaken them.  (I have done a little study on Joel which indicates my reasons.)  Jesus has made our atonement and we won't ever experience the earthly fulfillment of that dreadful dark period. 
         I believe the Jews will experience great revival and miracles, and will believe and evangelize.  The tremendous outpouring of God's Spirit as related in Joel will fall upon them.  I believe "Ephraim" was born in 1948, as Israel became a nation.  During the terrible time of God's wrath outpoured upon the sinful earth, Israel will experience great things.  I believe this is borne out in books of the Old Testament and in the Book of Revelation.  Far from the Jews staying behind to experience only curses, I believe many will believe and please the Lord.  They will become a true witness, just as the three young men in the fiery furnace in Daniel, and the Lord will be manifested among them!  They will live through terrible times as they wait to see Him.  No wonder that He said blessed are those who believe without having to see.
         Believers have received the Blood of the slain Passover Lamb,  His offering of Unleavened Bread, and we have taken the symbols of His Blood in the wine and His body in the broken bread.  We have believed in Firstfruits, with Jesus raised from the dead,  like a grain of wheat buried, seemingly dead, and then sprouted in new life.  We have experienced Pentecost and are in a time of waiting and watching for Jesus to come.  We will never again experience a day of crying out and seeking an atonement because Jesus is our all in all.

      Tabernacles, Booths, Succot
         At this feast, all Jews were to go up to Jerusalem for the great gathering of the people.   They were told by the Lord to live out of doors for a week in little booths made of tree limbs and branches to remind them of the way God had protected them in their sojourn from Egypt.  Tabernacles commences on the full moon, the harvest moon.  Most of the crops are in, the grape harvest is ending in September. 
         The olive will be harvested during September, October, November.
         Revelation mentions the pressing of grapes was the time of His wrath.
         Are the 144,000 believing Jews like olives, pressed, yielding precious oil?  The two witnesses of the Book of Revelation are likened to two olive trees.  The olive harvest and pressing reminds us of the oil being used for the Menorah lamp. We know that the grapes of wrath reveal the wicked. 
         Tabernacles will be fulfilled by the Lord setting His Throne in Jerusalem so all the saved would come up to it, since it is on a mountain, Mount Olivet.
         Remaining Jews will experience the time of Jacob's trouble and consider the fulfillments of some of the feasts, and realize what the Lord has done.  The periods of time spoken of by the prophet Daniel will commence to be fulfilled.
         The Lord has a marvelous plan for the Jews.  He will mightily undertake for them, and just as Joseph dealt with his brothers and restored them to himself in a time of great famine, so the Lord will undertake for them in the dark days prophesied in the Scriptures, and they will be restored to Him with tears of joy. 
         We are soon coming to the sunset, it seems to me.  In the twilight after we believers are gone, the Day of the Lord will commence. 
         The sun was darkened when Jesus died, and the Jewish day commences at sunset, and with it begins the dark Day of the Lord.  The Day of Atonement will come and stretch on as the Jews seek God's salvation in that awful time. 
         The seven years start with the covenant of the evil one and Israel, but there could be some intervening time between the Rapture and the start of the Tribulation.  The time of Jacob's trouble will commence, the time of Daniel's seventieth "week."  Greater things than the Exodus will occur.  Afterward, Tabernacles, and then the light of the new day will come, the thousand year earthly reign of Christ here on earth.  And He shall reign forever and ever.
         Some say the Church will go through the tribulation, that God fulfilled the spring feasts in a mighty way on the earth, but that both believers and unbelievers will move together into the tribulation.
         Jesus will set up His kingdom on earth, and sit upon the throne of David, and rule the earth from Jerusalem.  Every year, all people of the earth will come to worship Him there or they will have no rain, according to Zechariah.  Jesus will reign one thousand years, and turn all over to His Father for eternity. 
         Blessed be the Name of the Lord!  

      *****
      Notes, 26 March 2018: 
         I want to say a bit more about a group referred to by various names: NAR New Apostolic Revolution, Latter Day Rain, MSOG or Manifest Sons of God, Kingdom Now, Dominion Theology, Identity.  They and others teach against pre-tribulation Rapture and that Jesus will not come until believers take over, have dominion over the world.   I've read that they believe that the office of Apostle can be conferred by the laying on of their hands, and that the Church has replaced Israel, Replacement Theology.  
         In 2018, Paul Smith of Calvary Chapel states that the "New Evangelical"  outlook, which I think is spreading among some churches, is that Jesus is gradually coming into hearts.   [So many are being taught to not take the Scripture literally as to Jesus' return.]
         I visited a Manifest Sons type of group with an acquaintance, in 1980s, for their large Feast of Tabernacles meetings and celebration, and it took me awhile, but I realized, 'What about the blessed hope?'  
         I take the Scriptures literally and decided the blessed hope is the hope of His coming for believers -- not death, not tribulation, not being hidden in Petra in the mountains southwest of Jerusalem. 
         I'm surprised, but these post-tribulation ideas are still growing and are found among many.  The Manifest Sons group has their main weekly meeting on Saturday, is allied with "CCC" Christ Community Churches.  Dominion Theology people preach that the Church must bring the earth under control before Jesus can come again.
         We will benefit from comparing Scriptures about 1) the grain harvest 2) the coming for the Bride 3) the householder on a journey who exhorts his servants to watch, and will learn much by looking again at the parables of Jesus.
         All unbelieving people left behind at the Rapture will live during the Time of Jacob's trouble.  God's plan will be fulfilled and many will be saved, but many will die, many will be executed, and suffering will be great.   One hundred forty four thousand Jewish men from the tribes will evangelize and many will believe.  After the departing of the Church, the Scripture will be fulfilled, Jeremiah 8:20  The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.  
         The book of Joel chapter 1 speaks of an event that has occurred:  "The word of the LORD that came to Joel the son of Pethuel. Hear this, ye old men, and give ear, all ye inhabitants of the land. Hath this been in your days, or even in the days of your fathers?  Tell ye your children of it, and let your children tell their children, and their children another generation."  Verse 7: "He hath laid my vine waste, and barked my fig tree: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white."   Does this event point to the missing believers and realization by Jews that they had not recognized Messiah, or does it indicate there has been a military attack on Israel?
         Specifics for events in the time of tribulation can be found in Daniel and in the Book of Revelation.
         The evil man will arise and set up world government and eventually enter the Temple in Jerusalem, saying he is God, and the most awful times will occur.  Great numbers of new believers, who will refuse to take his mark, will be beheaded.  Eventually, as Jesus warned, some will flee Jerusalem and hide in the mountains to the southeast, and be sustained by the Lord. 
         Evil unbelieving people of the tribulation are compared to a harvest gathering of grapes, to be crushed.
         Believers during the Time of Jacob's trouble might be compared to the olive harvest, the last harvest of the agricultural year, and the pressing of the olives.
         After a specific number of days, Jesus will come with all His saints, on white horses and clothed in white linen, and He will split Mount Olivet in Jerusalem, east to west.  He will slay all His enemies upon the earth by the word from His mouth.  Some people will live through the tribulation and have children, in a time of peace, blessing, abundance.  Satan will be bound, Rev. 20.
         Rev. 19:8  And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
         We look forward to His gathering of His grain harvest.  Rev. 22:20  Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
         
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