Did Abraham, Ishac and Jacob resurrect when Jesus died ?

[JohnD]

Messianic Rabbi Larry Feldman gave the best explanation I am aware of.

When a bodily raising from the dead happens in scripture, is it

a. a resuscitation of a body to life that will die again?

b. a resurrection unto life eternal (never to die again)?

Here (IN mATTHEW 27:52-23) we have evidence of neither... not even the raising of the Lord:

The difference between the Greek words is slight but enough to be of different numbers in the

Greek lexicon.

Now we know from several other places in scripture that Christ's raising from the dead is eternal.

Revelation 1:18 (AV)
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

No such scripture exists with reference to those in Matthew 27:52-53 relegating them IMHO to the many who were bodily raised before and since then and later died again (which Feldman calls resuscitation as opposed to resurrection).

Edited January 19, 2019 by JohnD

[frienduff thaylorde]

1 hour ago, SelahSong said:

I respectfully disagree. Consider the following scriptures:  

2 Corinthians 5:1-6

5 For we know that if our earthly [a]house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our [b]habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as [c]a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.)

Ecclesiastes 12:7

⁷ Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

...

When we die, we go to either the “good” side of the gulf or the “bad” side until the Great White Throne Judgment after the Millennium.  See below: 

Luke 16:19-31 

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and[a]fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with [b]the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

…

Selah

I also think folks forget WHO was talking TO JESUS on the mountain .    When they not knowing what they said , said let us build three tabernacles .     Moses was seen

Talking to CHRIST on the mountain .     Not only that ,  but in Mathew what else does it say ,   WHEN JESUS was resurrected ,  many saints that slept were too,

THEY even went into the city and were seen .    Selah,   you are loved sister .   

[Deborah_]

10 hours ago, SelahSong said:

I respectfully disagree. Consider the following scriptures:  

2 Corinthians 5:1-6

5 For we know that if our earthly [a]house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our [b]habitation which is from heaven, 3 if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. 4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. 5 Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as [c]a guarantee.

6 So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.)

Ecclesiastes 12:7

⁷ Then the dust will return to the earth as it was,
And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

...

When we die, we go to either the “good” side of the gulf or the “bad” side until the Great White Throne Judgment after the Millennium.  See below: 

Luke 16:19-31 

19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and[a]fared sumptuously every day. 20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, 21 desiring to be fed with [b]the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. 26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’

27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ 29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ ”

…

Selah

I'm not sure where this is in conflict with what I have been saying, except that you are using different terminology.

[R. Hartono]

16 hours ago, JohnD said:

To date, Jesus alone is the only bodily resurrected man in heaven.

How about Moses ? Didnt he died be4 and appeared with Elijah  to meet Jesus ?

[Bible_Gazer]

According to Hebrews 11 all of the OT saints died before Jesus came. They knew of the resurrection. Was it Martha that said Her brother would resurrect.

As far as Moses and Elijah on the mount with Jesus, they were resurrected for a moment and talking to Jesus about his death and resurrection.

Luke 9:30-31 (KJV)
³⁰  And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
³¹  Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

So they died again waiting for the resurrection, even Samuel was brought back to life for a moment but rested again.

From what I see, no one can have eternal unless they except Jesus and be born again and become righteous in their living life.

How can the  OT saints get that, well they would have to be resurrected and get the teaching of the new testament life in Jesus, and then they must have a new heart.

I think Matthew 27 the resurrected OT saints must been the elect and while living in the flesh body they attained completeness in Jesus, when the died they receive their  new body in 2Cor.5. This time their soul didn't die like before.

Before they resurrected they were in the Book of Remembrance, another word they were not forgotten like the heathen , but they died.

 Malachi 3:16-17 (KJV)
¹⁶  Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
¹⁷  And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

Jesus was the first to die and resurrect unto eternal life, he was the firstfruit of this and other would follow after.

1 Corinthians 15:20 (KJV)
²⁰  But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

OT was a moonlight, just a reflection of the real light to come that it would bring life, and everyone has to come to that light to have life, that is Jesus Christ. 

 

Just some thoughts to share. 

How I see for now.

 

 

[Deborah_]

3 hours ago, SelahSong said:

Deborah, you say that “Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will be resurrected when we are… which will be when the Kingdom is consummated, and we all begin to enjoy it together.” 

So,in your opinion, where are all those who have died since the resurrection of Jesus?

…

Selah

Those who believe are with Jesus in Paradise (Luke 23:43).

[JohnD]

On 1/20/2019 at 3:49 AM, R. Hartono said:

How about Moses ? Didnt he died be4 and appeared with Elijah  to meet Jesus ?

Was that a bodily appearance?

And who told them that they were Moses and Elijah?

1. apparently there is a knowing who we are in the afterlife (disembodied spirit or resurrected body)

2. as with the account of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) there's not all that much difference in a spirit and a body

[suzan344]

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2019 at 5:57 AM, Bible_Gazer said:

According to Hebrews 11 all of the OT saints died before Jesus came. They knew of the resurrection. Was it Martha that said Her brother would resurrect.

As far as Moses and Elijah on the mount with Jesus, they were resurrected for a moment and talking to Jesus about his death and resurrection.

Luke 9:30-31 (KJV)
³⁰  And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:
³¹  Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

So they died again waiting for the resurrection, even Samuel was brought back to life for a moment but rested again.

From what I see, no one can have eternal unless they except Jesus and be born again and become righteous in their living life.

How can the  OT saints get that, well they would have to be resurrected and get the teaching of the new testament life in Jesus, and then they must have a new heart.

 

 

Wondered that too.  What happens to the saints who died (what we call 'saints' is another question) before Christ resurrection?

Rev. 20:4 states the Saints (rise again and) take thrones.

Other verses in Revelation state that that the dead in Christ will rise again, but in 1,000+ years (Rev. 20:5-6*).

*"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years."

I always assumed (do not know) that the prophets pre-resurrection are some of these Saints that rise.

[Bible_Gazer]

8 minutes ago, suzan344 said:

Wondered that too.  What happens to the saints who died (what we call 'saints' is another question) before Christ resurrection?

Rev. 20:4 states the Saints (rise again and) take thrones.

Other verses in Revelation state that that the dead in Christ will rise again, but in 1,000+ years (Rev. 20:5-6*).

*"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years."

I always assumed (do not know) that the prophets pre-resurrection are some of these Saints that rise.

Malachi 3:16-17 (KJV)
¹⁶  Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
¹⁷  And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

What I read here is that they went into God's memory(book of remembrance) waiting for a resurrection someday. They were dead but not forgotten.

Rev.20:4 is a group of born again saints which is my understanding is a first resurrection and is quickened from trespasses and sins by the Holy Ghost. Eph.2:1 -5 

It may be showing here you must have a first resurrection to be part of this people that is ruling and reigning with Jesus. 

Rev.20:5 rest of the dead is the 2nd resurrection - first resurrection group is v.4 they don't die.   You see we are not suppose to die if we are in Christ if we are born again and alive in him.

 

Plenty of OT scriptures about saints.  I guess you could call them OT worthies if that would help.

 

 

[R. Hartono]

10 hours ago, suzan344 said:

"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years."

I always assumed (do not know) that the prophets pre-resurrection are some of these Saints that rise.

The rest of the dead here speaks about the unbeliever who died since the creation and they will face the Great White Throne judgment, then its over and New Heaven and New Earth established.