Jayne Posted January 23, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,810 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,793 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Called Out One said: Personally, It does not make sense to me that Jude would have quoted from the Book of Enoch if, in fact, it were heresy as some claim. Particularly in light of the fact the whole point behind his letter was to warn us against those who infiltrate the church and undermine it. Here's my question that I always have. What's the definitive proof that Jude quoted Enoch? Jude does not say, "Enoch said", or "it is written" or any other reference. What if Jude and Enoch both took their quote from oral tradition? It's very possible. In fact, there are the exact same odds. The book of Enoch was not written by the Enoch of the Old Testament. So, someone had to keep the real Enoch's words going to from multiple generations to multiple generations across the millennia. Why do people believe Jude's only resource was the book of Enoch? As for the "claims" of the book being heretical....here are the facts. I've read all three books of Enoch by multiple authors. In Enoch 10 it says the prior to the Flood that God told Michael the archangel to "cleanse" the world corruption, sin, and crime and all people would praise him [God] and adore him and worship him. The Bible says otherwise. The Bible says that only Jesus' blood can cleanse from sin and that mankind was no different after the Flood than before it. Genesis 6 and then 8 say the same thing about mankind. Enoch also says that sin was brought into the world by a fallen angel who taught mankind all kinds of sin. The Bible says that sin was brought into the world by Adam. Enoch says that during the tribulation that the Enoch of old says that there will be no mercy or opportunity for salvation for sinners. The book of Revelations says that many, many people will be saved during that time. I'll stop there as people who understand the book of Enoch to be false already understand and people who believe the books won't listen. I'll say what I always say. If you believe the book of Enoch - which contains the grossest error of any non-canonical book I've read [I've read at least 8-10] - please, please read it again with the Bible alongside and see which book contains the truth. Yes, there is great irony that people believe Jude to be quoting Enoch and at the same time Jude writing about false teachers. All I can say is that the devil is crafty and heresy began very early. It's not that Enoch supplements the Bible with extra facts not in the Bible. It's that the authors of the books of Enoch blatantly distort the facts of the Bible into lies and teach heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,143 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,438 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 23, 2019 39 minutes ago, Jayne said: Here's my question that I always have. What's the definitive proof that Jude quoted Enoch? Jude does not say, "Enoch said", or "it is written" or any other reference. What if Jude and Enoch both took their quote from oral tradition? It's very possible. In fact, there are the exact same odds. The book of Enoch was not written by the Enoch of the Old Testament. So, someone had to keep the real Enoch's words going to from multiple generations to multiple generations across the millennia. Why do people believe Jude's only resource was the book of Enoch? As for the "claims" of the book being heretical....here are the facts. I've read all three books of Enoch by multiple authors. In Enoch 10 it says the prior to the Flood that God told Michael the archangel to "cleanse" the world corruption, sin, and crime and all people would praise him [God] and adore him and worship him. The Bible says otherwise. The Bible says that only Jesus' blood can cleanse from sin and that mankind was no different after the Flood than before it. Genesis 6 and then 8 say the same thing about mankind. Enoch also says that sin was brought into the world by a fallen angel who taught mankind all kinds of sin. The Bible says that sin was brought into the world by Adam. Enoch says that during the tribulation that the Enoch of old says that there will be no mercy or opportunity for salvation for sinners. The book of Revelations says that many, many people will be saved during that time. I'll stop there as people who understand the book of Enoch to be false already understand and people who believe the books won't listen. I'll say what I always say. If you believe the book of Enoch - which contains the grossest error of any non-canonical book I've read [I've read at least 8-10] - please, please read it again with the Bible alongside and see which book contains the truth. Yes, there is great irony that people believe Jude to be quoting Enoch and at the same time Jude writing about false teachers. All I can say is that the devil is crafty and heresy began very early. It's not that Enoch supplements the Bible with extra facts not in the Bible. It's that the authors of the books of Enoch blatantly distort the facts of the Bible into lies and teach heresy. People don't seem to know that the error is just once for it not to be of God.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,073 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,820 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 minutes ago, enoob57 said: People don't seem to know that the error is just once for it not to be of God.... does that go for the Bible also??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,143 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,438 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, other one said: does that go for the Bible also??? It goes for anything of God …. He holds no error and for those who claim there are errors in His Word I believe we will be shown there are not by God.... The Scripture is His and the non-resolved areas where we cannot answer for now will be resolved to the glory of God. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike 2 Posted January 23, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 499 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 277 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/06/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2019 I can't help but wonder what kind of influence the book would have if it were in the cannon. Would we be distracted with what was written in it. What really are the different areas of heaven?..... what about the studies of the different angels and what they did here on earth?.... In the whole scheme of things obviously God himself did not inspire it to be in the cannon, if He wanted it in there it would have been. I think that has to be foremost in our thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted January 23, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2019 38 minutes ago, enoob57 said: It goes for anything of God …. He holds no error and for those who claim there are errors in His Word I believe we will be shown there are not by God.... The Scripture is His and the non-resolved areas where we cannot answer for now will be resolved to the glory of God. Yep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayne Posted January 23, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 106 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,810 Content Per Day: 1.29 Reputation: 4,793 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/31/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, enoob57 said: People don't seem to know that the error is just once for it not to be of God.... That's the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted January 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,073 Content Per Day: 7.55 Reputation: 27,820 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted January 23, 2019 49 minutes ago, enoob57 said: It goes for anything of God …. He holds no error and for those who claim there are errors in His Word I believe we will be shown there are not by God.... The Scripture is His and the non-resolved areas where we cannot answer for now will be resolved to the glory of God. with the translation problems in most of our Bibles, I think that is a dangerous status to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENOCH2010 Posted January 23, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 907 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1866 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, enoob57 said: It goes for anything of God …. He holds no error and for those who claim there are errors in His Word I believe we will be shown there are not by God.... The Scripture is His and the non-resolved areas where we cannot answer for now will be resolved to the glory of God. Have you ever took a look at the measurements given of the laver in the temple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted January 23, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 99 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,143 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,438 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted January 23, 2019 33 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said: Have you ever took a look at the measurements given of the laver in the temple. yes I have actually read a great deal about unresolved contradictions found within God's Word and a great many are shown to be not in conflict the one's that remain I am suspect to the inability of contextualization as who and what frame of measure in case and point... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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