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12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Mal'ak (so you name yourself "angel" in Hebrew?)

"Et tu, Brute?" (Latin for "And you [too], Brutus?")

No, the "king of the North" varies with the timing of the history being told, but generally, it is the king to ISRAEL'S north, which in the years following Daniel's time, were most often the kings of the Seleucid Empire which stemmed from Syria to Persia.

11:15 is about Antiochus III the Great. He besieged the fortified city of Sidon to flush the Egyptian commander Scopas out of hiding. He surrendered in 199 BCE in exchange for safe passage out of the city back to Egypt. He and his troops were allowed o leave the city naked after giving up their weapons.

11:20 and 21 are about Antiochus III's eldest son, Seleucus IV Philopater. He had to greatly increase taxes on his kingdom because of Rome's heavy debt burden imposed upon him, and because of trades of hostages - his son Demetrius, the heir to the throne, (made hostage) and his younger brother, Antiochus IV (freed) - Antiochus IV was allowed to begin his designs to take over the throne through intrigue. Antiochus IV is the "vile person." 

And, it is HE who fulfilled 11:31-32a on the 15th of the month of Kislev (December) in 168 BCE. The Hasmoneans, starting with Mattathias the priest and his five sons (including Judas Maccabee or Yhudah the "Hammer"), were the ones who fulfilled 32b-35, NOT "Christians in the future!"

Furthermore, Yeshua` the Messiah didn't quote from Daniel 11, he quoted from Daniel 9.

I'll say it again: "Those who don't learn how prophecy was fulfilled in the past are DOOMED to believe that the prophecy must be fulfilled in the future!" (And, that's NOT a good thing!)

Mal'ak means Massager of God, and Angel. I do not come to Christians forums to represent myself, but just share what God has shown me to those wanting to know, so Mal'ak is fitting.

 

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

You are missing a very important thing, Daniel was not a Hebrew historian, he was "Daniel the prophet".  What is the difference between a Historian and a Prophet?  Historian tells histories like what you are suggesting, while a prophet foresees future spiritual events that God sent him to tell the chosen.  If the Bible is just a history book to you, then that is completely fine, but you will never receive any spiritual knowledge or growth.  Jesus quoted Daniel "shall see the abomination of desolation":

 

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Which is a direct quote from Daniel 11:31, so Jesus is saying Daniel is prophesizing about the Tribulation.  You are calling Jesus a liar, calling Daniel a fraud who was not a prophet, and saying it is just a history lesson.  That is why I am just Mal'ak, I say what God has spoken, while others use their flesh imagination to create theological theories.

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1 hour ago, Mal'ak said:

Mal'ak means Massager of God, and Angel. I do not come to Christians forums to represent myself, but just share what God has shown me to those wanting to know, so Mal'ak is fitting.

 

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Matthew 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

 

You are missing a very important thing, Daniel was not a Hebrew historian, he was "Daniel the prophet".  What is the difference between a Historian and a Prophet?  Historian tells histories like what you are suggesting, while a prophet foresees future spiritual events that God sent him to tell the chosen.  If the Bible is just a history book to you, then that is completely fine, but you will never receive any spiritual knowledge or growth.  Jesus quoted Daniel "shall see the abomination of desolation":

 

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Which is a direct quote from Daniel 11:31, so Jesus is saying Daniel is prophesizing about the Tribulation.  You are calling Jesus a liar, calling Daniel a fraud who was not a prophet, and saying it is just a history lesson.  That is why I am just Mal'ak, I say what God has spoken, while others use their flesh imagination to create theological theories.

I believe retro as well as many others has recieved knowledge from those who do not believe in Christ.Thats why many people overlook what Christ said about the abomination that causes desolation.Its like they believe if someone such as josephus claimed to understand the prophecy and gave thier interpretation ,they believe it but reject what Christ said about it.

Why anyone rejects Jesus words on the subject i dont know.It really makes no sense.Josephus was not a messenger of God.

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On 2/11/2019 at 5:58 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

So, let me get this straight: You're merging ALL the prophecies into ONE? You're not wrong that the king in 11:3-4 is the same as the first horn of the goat. He explains who the ram and the goat represent in verses 20-25:

Daniel 8:15-27 (KJV)

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said,

"Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision."

17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me,

"Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end (of the Persian kingdom) shall be the vision."

18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. 19 And he said,

"Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia (Macedonia): and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king (Alexander the Great). 22 Now that (great horn) being broken (June 10, 323 BCE), whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms (Macedonia/Greece under Cassander, Asia Minor under Lysimachus, Babylon and Persia under Seleucus I Nicator, and Egypt and the Holy Land under Ptolemy I Soter, all by 301 BCE) shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his (Alexander's) power.

23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, (Antiochus IV Epiphanes) shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

26 And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

27 And I Daniel fainted, and was sick certain days; afterward I rose up, and did the king's business; and I was astonished at the vision, but none understood it.

HOWEVER, neither chapter 8 nor chapter 11 is about OUR future!

So, while 11:1-2 is about Daniel's time in Persia with that country's last four significant kings, you ALLEGORIZE (sometimes erroneously called "spiritualize") the rest of the chapter about the "end times" which begins in OUR future! Therefore, YOUR gap is between verses 2 and 3! And, since you see "kingdoms" instead of "kings," who knows how many THOUSANDS of years YOU'VE added to that gap!

HOWEVER, neither chapter 8 nor chapter 11 is about OUR future!

I think you are mistaken here. I agree, chapter 8 is about Greece overcoming Persia, Alexander dying and four generals taking over. There is nothing in this chapter about the future. 

However, in chapter 11, there is much history - agreed. But from verse 36 on to the end of chapter 12 is most certainly about our future. Verse one of chapter 12 is at the midpoint of the future 70th week.

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On 2/12/2019 at 6:58 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

Well, I don't see where it says anything about adding tbousands of years between the time of the man-of-destruction's death and the coming of Christ.

That's just your addition.

If you wish to believe the time of the end was thousands of years ago, then you can believe it. I'm not swallowing that camel.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

You've already swallowed the camel! Daniel 11 is NOT about the antichrist! It WAS about the future - DANIEL'S future! Daniel is reporting this prophecy by Gabriel "in the third year of Cyrus, king of Persia!" This was around 535 BCE.
The next three Medo-Persian kings after Cyrus were...
(1) his son, Cambyses II (530-522 BCE),
(2) Gaumata the Magian (also known as the pseudo-Smerdis - 522 BCE), and
(3) the Persian Darius I (the Great - 522-486 BCE).

All three of these kings were in Daniel's FUTURE!

{The way the centuries work is as follows:

BCE (B.C.): <-- 600 - 500 - 400 - 300 - 200 - 100 - 1 | 1 - 100 - 200 - 300 - 400 - 500 - 600 --> :CE (A.D.)

(There's no year zero.)

Therefore, the First Century was from 1 CE to 100 CE, Second Century from 101 CE to 200 CE, etc. (By the way, this means that the 21st Century began in 2001 CE, not 2000 CE, and will continue until 2100 CE. The year 2000 CE was the END of the 20th Century.)
The First Century "Before Christ" was from 100 BCE to 1 BCE, Second Century "B.C." was from 200 BCE to 101 BCE, etc.
After Christ was born, the larger the number, the later the year; before Christ, the larger the number, the earlier the year.

B.C. = "Before Christ"
A.D. = "Anno Domini" (Latin for "in-Year of-the-Lord")

BCE = Before Common Error
CE = Common Error

Originally, Yeshua ("Jesus") was said to be born at the beginning of 1 A.D., and the year before He was born was denoted as 1 B.C. However, the "Error" was that Yeshua` was actually born between 7 BCE and 4 BCE instead of the beginning of 1 A.D. We learn this because Herod the Great died in 4 BCE, according to the records of several historians. And, since it was HE who killed all the boys 2 and under in Beit-Lechem ("Bethlehem"), then Yeshua` had to be born before Herod died, possibly as early as 2 years before Herod died. So, how could Herod die in 7 to 4 B.C. (Before Christ [was born])? It doesn't make sense! Therefore, we use the better tag of "BCE," that is, "Before the Common Error" that Jesus was born in 1 A.D. The "Error" has nothing to do with Christ; it's all about OUR Error, as humans, to start the count right!}

The fourth and richest king of Persia was Xerxes I (who was known as "Ahasuerus" in Esther, "Achashverosh" in Hebrew - 486-465 BCE).

ALL of these dates were AFTER Daniel was shown the vision; therefore, ALL of these kings were in Daniel's FUTURE!

Therefore, what you call "the time of the man-of-destruction's death," if it was Antiochus IV (215-164 BCE), was in 164 BCE, which is also AFTER Daniel was shown the vision and was in Daniel's FUTURE.

HOWEVER, for us who live in 2019 CE, Antiochus IV lived in our PAST! And, the things he did in fulfillment of the prophecy shown to Daniel, including the defilement of the Temple (the Abomination of Desolation), are now DONE! The prophecy has been FULFILLED! PERIOD! And, regardless what the Bible says about the Antichrist elsewhere in Scripture, THIS prophecy is not about him! Contrary to a popular belief that prophecies can be repeated (dual fulfillment), it's not possible to re-use a prophecy or else the prophecy HAS NO VALUE! According to Deuteronomy 18:20, if a prophet's words do not come true, the children of Israel were to kill that prophet for PRETENDING to speak for God! If one cannot be certain whether a prophecy has truly been fulfilled or not, then HOW COULD THEY KNOW?!

IF this prophecy could be re-used for the Antichrist, then why couldn't the over-400 prophecies fulfilled about Jesus the Christ also be re-used for some FUTURE person claiming to be "Christ?" If it's good for the one, then it could be good for the other! You can't have it both ways!

So, if the over-400 prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus the Christ in His First Advent are finished and never to be repeated, then this prophecy about Antiochus IV, being fulfilled, is also FINISHED and NEVER TO BE REPEATED!

So, since the "death of this man-of-destruction," Antiochus IV, was in 164 BCE, then he died about 160 years before the FIRST Coming of Jesus! And, it that's true, then he died 2019+164 - 1 = 2182 years ago, and we know the Second Coming of Jesus hasn't happened, yet! Now, the last I've heard, 2,182 years is "thousands of years," isn't it?

And as far as the "time of the end" is concerned, the "end" of WHAT?! Neither Daniel 11:35 nor Daniel 12:4 is talking about the "end of all time!"

Edited by Retrobyter
to fix errors and confusing parts
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7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

You've already swallowed the camel! Daniel 11 is NOT about the antichrist! It WAS about the future - DANIEL'S future! Daniel is reporting this prophecy by Gabriel "in the third year of Cyrus, king of Persia!" This was around 535 BCE.
The next three Medo-Persian kings after Cyrus were...
(1) his son, Cambyses II (530-522 BCE),
(2) Gaumata the Magian (also known as the pseudo-Smerdis - 522 BCE), and
(3) the Persian Darius I (the Great - 522-486 BCE).

All three of these kings were in Daniel's FUTURE!

{The way the centuries work is as follows:

BCE (B.C.): <-- 600 - 500 - 400 - 300 - 200 - 100 - 1 | 1 - 100 - 200 - 300 - 400 - 500 - 600 --> :CE (A.D.)

(There's no year zero.)

Therefore, the First Century was from 1 CE to 100 CE, Second Century from 101 CE to 200 CE, etc. (By the way, this means that the 21st Century began in 2001 CE, not 2000 CE, and will continue until 2100 CE. The year 2000 CE was the END of the 20th Century.)
The First Century "Before Christ" was from 100 BCE to 1 BCE, Second Century "B.C." was from 200 BCE to 101 BCE, etc.
After Christ was born, the larger the number, the later the year; before Christ, the larger the number, the earlier the year.

B.C. = "Before Christ"
A.D. = "Anno Domini" (Latin for "in-Year of-the-Lord")

BCE = Before Common Error
CE = Common Error

Originally, Yeshua ("Jesus") was said to be born at the beginning of 1 A.D., and the year before He was born was denoted as 1 B.C. However, the "Error" was that Yeshua` was actually born between 7 BCE and 4 BCE instead of the beginning of 1 A.D. We learn this because Herod the Great died in 4 BCE, according to the records of several historians. And, since it was HE who killed all the boys 2 and under in Beit-Lechem ("Bethlehem"), then Yeshua` had to be born before Herod died, possibly as early as 2 years before Herod died. So, how could Yeshua` ("Jesus") die in 7 to 4 B.C. (Before Christ [was born])? It doesn't make sense! Therefore, we use the better tag of "BCE," that is, "Before the Common Error" that Jesus was born in 1 A.D. The "Error" has nothing to do with Christ; it's all about OUR Error, as humans, to start the count right!}

The fourth and richest king of Persia was Xerxes I (who was known as "Ahasuerus" in Esther, "Achashverosh" in Hebrew - 486-465 BCE).

ALL of these dates were AFTER Daniel was shown the vision; therefore, ALL of these kings were in Daniel's FUTURE!

Therefore, what you call "the time of the man-of-destruction's death," if it was Antiochus IV (215-164 BCE), was also AFTER Daniel was shown the vision and was in Daniel's FUTURE.

HOWEVER, for us who live in 2019 CE, Antiochus IV lived in our PAST! And, the things he did in fulfillment of the prophecy shown to Daniel, including the defilement of the Temple (the Abomination of Desolation), are now DONE! The prophecy has been FULFILLED! PERIOD! And, regardless what the Bible says about the Antichrist elsewhere in Scripture, THIS prophecy is not about him! Contrary to a popular belief that prophecies can be repeated (dual fulfillment), it's not possible to re-use a prophecy or else the prophecy HAS NO VALUE! According to Deuteronomy 18:20, if a prophet's words do not come true, the children of Israel were to kill that prophet for PRETENDING to speak for God! If one cannot be certain whether a prophecy has truly been fulfilled or not, then HOW COULD THEY KNOW?!

IF this prophecy could be re-used for the Antichrist, then why couldn't the over-400 prophecies fulfilled about Jesus the Christ also be re-used for some FUTURE person claiming to be "Christ?" If it's good for the one, then it could be good for the other! You can't have it both ways!

So, if the over-400 prophecies that were fulfilled by Jesus the Christ in His First Advent are finished and never to be repeated, then this prophecy about Antiochus IV, being fulfilled, is also FINISHED and NEVER TO BE REPEATED!

So, since the "death of this man-of-destruction," Antiochus IV, was in 164 BCE, then he died about 160 years before the FIRST Coming of Jesus! And, it that's true, then he died 2019+164 - 1 = 2182 years ago, and we know the Second Coming of Jesus hasn't happened, yet! Now, the last I've heard, 2,182 years is "thousands of years," isn't it?

And as far as the "time of the end" is concerned, the "end" of WHAT?! Neither Daniel 11:35 nor Daniel 12:4 is talking about the "end of all time!"

 

Your the one who is teaching the pharisees translation of Daniel.Not me.

You swallowed the camel.

Paul stated,that man of destruction would die at Christs coming,and thst is when daniel said the resurrectuon would take place.

All of this takes place during the great tribulation jesus spoke of in the gospel.

 

https://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-3.htm

 

You believe Paul is wrong also?

Edited by Shilohsfoal
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On 2/12/2019 at 10:23 PM, iamlamad said:

HOWEVER, neither chapter 8 nor chapter 11 is about OUR future!

I think you are mistaken here. I agree, chapter 8 is about Greece overcoming Persia, Alexander dying and four generals taking over. There is nothing in this chapter about the future. 

However, in chapter 11, there is much history - agreed. But from verse 36 on to the end of chapter 12 is most certainly about our future. Verse one of chapter 12 is at the midpoint of the future 70th week.

Shabbat shalom, iamlamad.

Okay, since we agree on chapter 8 and much of chapter 11, let's focus on 11:36 and following:

Daniel 11:36-12:4 (KJV)

36 And the king shall do according to his will;...

Since we are done with Antiochus IV, this is obviously no longer him. Instead, we are looking for a man who could be called "the king" that followed the Hasmonean era in Israel's history. However, it is unreasonable to think that the timing would JUMP 2000+ YEARS INTO THE FUTURE when Gavri'el has been so thorough on the kings of Daniel's future up to now!

and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers (YHWH), nor the desire of women (the Messiah), nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 

Only ONE person fits that description: King Herod the "Great!"

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

Herod was a nut-case, but he was also a BUILDER, taking pride in the many structures he built or remodeled and embellished, including the second Temple!

This next part is parenthetical as a background to Herod (which was explained in the previous post):

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south (Mark Anthony, the consort of Cleopatra, last royal of Egypt) push at him: and the king of the north (Caesar Augustus of Rome) shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. (Rome doesn't push east.) 42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt (there will be no more after Rome has sacked Egypt): and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. 

Now, we return to Herod the Great himself:

44 But tidings out of the east (the Wise Men) and out of the north (a rumor of a traitorous son from his firstborn son) shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many (the slaughter of male babies in Bethlehem). 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

1 And at that time (the time of the Messiah's first coming) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of (Jacob's) trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (the time of the Messiah's second coming) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This all fits nicely IF one remembers that the "seventieth Seven" of Daniel 9 is NOT the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24. Instead, the two halves of this Seven, split by the desolation pronounced by the Messiah (Dan. 9:27; Matt. 23:38-39), are like BOOKENDS to the actual "tribulation" that lasts throughout the "time of Jacob's trouble," which is also called "the times of the Gentiles." The "seventieth Seven" is the time of fulfillment of the final three purposes for the "Seventy Sevens":

Daniel 9:24b (KJV)

... and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.

These are accomplished by YHWH'S Messiah (Anointed) to be King, Yeshua` Son of David and Son of God.

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On 2/13/2019 at 6:30 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

You're the one who is teaching the Pharisees' translation of Daniel, Not me.

You swallowed the camel.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

You are stuck in an argumentative rut! It's not about the "Pharisees" (Greek transliteration of the "P'rushiym," Hebrew for "Separatists")! It's all about a right interpretation of Daniel 11!

Quote

Paul stated, that man of destruction would die at Christ's coming, and that is when Daniel said the resurrection would take place.

No. Daniel 12:1 says that the Resurrection would take place at the Second Coming of the Messiah. And, you've mixed up the characters in Daniel 11! The one who put "the abomination that maketh desolate" in the Temple was Antiochus IV (11:31). He died in 164 BCE noted in 11:35, shortly after the Maccabean Revolt.

Verse 36 and following to the end of the chapter are all about Herod the Great! HE was the one who was troubled by news from the East when the Magi brought their gifts for the One born "King of the Jews!"

Quote

All of this takes place during the great tribulation Jesus spoke of in the gospel.

 

NOPE! The Great Tribulation about which Yeshua` spoke in Matthew 24, Mark 13 (and Luke 21), started with His pronouncement of the Jews and Jerusalem being left "DESOLATE" in Matthew 23:38 (fulfilling Daniel 9:27 in part) and won't be finished until the Messiah Yeshua` comes again (Matthew 24:29-31; Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28). The Resurrection, according to Yeshua`, happens AFTER the "tribulation" (Matthew 24:29; Mark 13:24).

Quote

https://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-3.htm

You believe Paul is wrong also?

No, of course not. I believe that Paul is MISUNDERSTOOD also. It's not Paul's words that are at fault; it's how people USE Paul's words that are wrong!

Edited by Retrobyter
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1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shabbat shalom, iamlamad.

Okay, since we agree on chapter 8 and much of chapter 11, let's focus on 11:36 and following:

Daniel 11:36-12:4 (KJV)

36 And the king shall do according to his will;...

Since we are done with Antiochus IV, this is obviously no longer him. Instead, we are looking for a man who could be called "the king" that followed the Hasmonean era in Israel's history. However, it is unreasonable to think that the timing would JUMP 2000+ YEARS INTO THE FUTURE when Gavri'el has been so thorough on the kings of Daniel's future up to now!

and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers (YHWH), nor the desire of women (the Messiah), nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 

Only ONE person fits that description: King Herod the "Great!"

38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

Herod was a nut-case, but he was also a BUILDER, taking pride in the many structures he built or remodeled and embellished, including the second Temple!

This next part is parenthetical as a background to Herod (which was explained in the previous post):

40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south (Mark Anthony, the consort of Cleopatra, last royal of Egypt) push at him: and the king of the north (Caesar Augustus of Rome) shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. (Rome doesn't push east.) 42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt (there will be no more after Rome has sacked Egypt): and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. 

Now, we return to Herod the Great himself:

44 But tidings out of the east (the Wise Men) and out of the north (a rumor of a traitorous son from his firstborn son) shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many (the slaughter of male babies in Bethlehem). 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

1 And at that time (the time of the Messiah's first coming) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of (Jacob's) trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (the time of the Messiah's second coming) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

This all fits nicely IF one remembers that the "seventieth Seven" of Daniel 9 is NOT the "great tribulation" of Matthew 24. Instead, the two halves of this Seven, split by the desolation pronounced by the Messiah (Dan. 9:27; Matt. 23:38-39), are like BOOKENDS to the actual "tribulation" that lasts throughout the "time of Jacob's trouble," which is also called "the times of the Gentiles." The "seventieth Seven" is the time of fulfillment of the final three purposes for the "Seventy Sevens":

Daniel 9:24b (KJV)

... and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
and to anoint the most Holy.

These are accomplished by YHWH'S Messiah (Anointed) to be King, Yeshua` Son of David and Son of God.

You area mistaken on almost every point.  You are right that from verse 36 on it is no longer about Antiochus. But neither is it about Herod. It is about the man of sin that will turn into the Beast of Rev. 13, The same person as the Little Horn of Daniel 7. Many today call Him Antichrist. And in spite of what you think or imagine, this man will divide the future 70th week when he enters the Jewish temple.

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1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Antiochus IV (11:31). He died in 164 BCE noted in 11:35, 

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/11-35.htm

 

I dont quite see where it says anything about an Antiochus.

Insted versr 35 says those of understanding are made white and purified

So tell us.How were those mentioned in verse 35 cleaned?What sacrifice was provided for thier sins so that they were pronouced clean in Gods eyes?

Edited by Shilohsfoal
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48 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You area mistaken on almost every point.  You are right that from verse 36 on it is no longer about Antiochus. But neither is it about Herod. It is about the man of sin that will turn into the Beast of Rev. 13, The same person as the Little Horn of Daniel 7. Many today call Him Antichrist. And in spite of what you think or imagine, this man will divide the future 70th week when he enters the Jewish temple.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/11-35.htm

Verse35  isnt about Antiochus.Its about the saints being cleansed.

 

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/11-33.htm

In fact ill show you exactly what revelation has to say about the saints in Daniel 11:33

https://biblehub.com/revelation/14-13.htm

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