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12 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Daniel 11:44 is not about OUR future

 

Most of the "interpretations" I see in Christianity are derived from failed predictions made by the mega preachers of 150 years ago. Most are easily proven wrong by anyone paying attention.

For instance the popular belief in the "beginning of sorrows". Apparently their will come a time when all this stuff will happen in a very short period and the tribulation will soon follow.

The truth is when Jesus was asked how long it would be before he came back he answered that it would be a long long long long time. Then he said there would be a great tribulation shortly before he came back.

If my wife asked me when I'd be coming home and I said there would be wars and rumors of wars it pretty much means don't wait up. It does not mean the whole world will break out in war in an hour and I'll be home by nine.

Jesus just meant that enough time would pass that those things could and would naturally happen in the long amount of time he'd be gone. I'd said over 2000 years. Then there shall be great tribulation. Read it yourself and see.

Don't believe what some rich preacher said in the 19th century about a subject he apparently didn't understand. If any of them had the rapture would have happened then like they all said it would, and are still saying. There is a new date guessed every time there's an eclipse or meteor is discovered.

How many of you remember in 2010 when we got our prophecy from the Aztec. I would call that unChristian but that's just me. Apparently Paul Bagley and a plethora of other Christian Scholars disagreed.

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On 2/4/2019 at 7:17 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

So you believe the resurrection of the dead has already taken place. (NO, I DON'T!)

Since the resurretion takes place when Christ comes (with which I agree) and you preach the resurrection is past. (NO, I DON'T!)

Can you tell us the date Christ rose the dead from the graves? (RIDICULOUS CONCLUSION BASED ON FAULTY ASSUMPTIONS!)

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

No, and you shouldn't be concluding that you can even FIND the "resurrection of the dead" in Daniel 11! See how the house of cards grows? This ridiculous series of conclusions PROVE that you don't know what you're talking about!

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40 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

No, and you shouldn't be concluding that you can even FIND the "resurrection of the dead" in Daniel 11! See how the house of cards grows? This ridiculous series of conclusions PROVE that you don't know what you're talking about!

You do understand Daniel did not write verse numbers and chapter numbers dont you?

If you understand this and you cant even,understand the resurrection takes place at the time of daniel 11:44 then i dont know what  else to tell you.

Try to keep daniel 11:44 in the context of daniels message.

I hope you can read past daniel 11:44

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-2.htm

Edited by Shilohsfoal

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On 2/6/2019 at 6:43 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

You do understand Daniel did not write verse numbers and chapter numbers dont you?

If you understand this and you cant even,understand the resurrection takes place at the time of daniel 11:44 then i dont know what  else to tell you.

Try to keep daniel 11:44 in the context of daniels message.

I hope you can read past daniel 11:44

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-1.htm

https://biblehub.com/daniel/12-2.htm

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Actually, we have ...

Cyrus, king of Persia, c.535 BCE, in 11:1;
Cambyses II (c. 530-522 BCE);
Gaumata the Magian (also known as the pseudo-Smerdis, c. 522 BCE);
the Persian Darius I (the Great, 522-486 BCE); and
Xerxes (486-465 BCE), the husband of Esther, in 11:2.
Alexander the Great (333 BCE to his death on June 10, 323 BCE) in 11:3-4.
The "four winds" of 11:4 by 301 BCE were...
(1) Cassander, ruler over Greece,
(2) Lysimachus, ruler over Asia Minor,
(3) Seleucus I Nicator, ruler in Syria, Babylon, and Persia, and
(4) Ptolemy I Soter, ruler over the Holy Land and Egypt.
After 20 years, when Seleucus I killed Lysimachus, there were only the Seleucid kings in the north (Syria), and the Ptolemaic kings in the south (Egypt) in 11:5.

After several wars back and forth between the Seleucid Empire and the Ptolemies (11:6-11:20), we have Antiochus IV Epiphanes coming on the scene in 11:21, defeating Helidorus' designs for the throne of the Seleucid Empire with the aid of Eumenes II the king of Pergamum. He became co-regent and "protector" of Seleucus IV's infant son (also named Antiochus) and was conveniently absent when the younger Antiochus was murdered. This let Antiochus IV take sole possession of the throne. He totally wipes out all competition for his throne with his charm and alliances.
He also forced the high priest Onias III out of the priest's position. His hellenized brother, Joshua, who changed his name to "Jason," was installed as high priest instead, in 174 BCE. Onias III is the "prince of the covenant" in 11:22.

At "Here A Little, There A Little's" (www.herealittletherealittle.net) article on "DANIEL 11 - PROPHECY FULFILLED!" by Bryan T. Huie, one can read....

Quote

In 172 BCE, Jason sent a priest named Menelaus to Antiochus IV with his tribute money. However, Menelaus took Jason's money, added some of his own to it, and bribed Antiochus IV to secure the high priesthood for himself. Menelaus then returned to Jerusalem and deposed Jason, who fled for his life. Antiochus IV's double-cross of Jason shows the true nature of his character.

Daniel 11:23 "And after the league is made with him he shall act deceitfully, for he shall come up and become strong with a small number of people." (NKJV)

Once again, the "king of the North" set his sights on the kingdom of the South. In Egypt, the 14-year-old Ptolemy VI Philometer had become king. He was the nephew of Antiochus IV; his mother (Cleopatra I) was Antiochus IV's sister. Antiochus IV sought an alliance with Ptolemy VI, seeking to take advantage of what he perceived as weakness in the Ptelemaic kingdom and gain Egypt for himself. He moved through Syria and Judea into Egypt with a small army, so as not to arouse suspicion to his true motive, and seized Egypt. His cover story was that he was coming to act as the "protector" of his nephew, Ptolemy VI.

Then, Antiochus IV devised a new plan for gaining Egypt's provinces. He went into the richest parts of Egypt, and spread around some of the spoils from his war campaigns to secure the loyalty of the people. What he was REALLY doing was scoping out Egyptian strongholds to find out their power! This fulfilled 11:24.

Antiochus IV then attacks Ptolemy VI who responds with a very great and mighty army in 170 BCE, the Sixth Syrian War, and Antiochus IV defeats Ptolemy VI by riding out in the middle of the battle of Pelusium and ordering the Egyptians to be taken alive instead of killed. He gained Pelusium and then Memphis. Ptolemy's army won't stand and Antiochus IV wins from within as well as from without, Antiochus having corrupted several Egyptian ministers and officers. This fulfilled 11:25-26.

Antiochus IV said that he was his nephew's (Ptolemy VI's) great friend and wanted him to do well, even though his brother (Ptolemy VII Euergetes) was named king by the city of Alexandria. (This city was what Antiochus was actually after and he was hoping brother would turn against brother.) Across the table, Ptolemy VI thanked his uncle for his interest and blamed the war on his minister Eulaeus. (Meanwhile, he was trying to smooth things over with his brother Ptolemy VII so they could join forces against their uncle.) This fulfilled 11:27.

Also, while Antiochus IV was in Egypt, Judea had heard the rumor that Antiochus had been killed. The deposed high priest Jason raised an army of 1,000 men and attacked Jerusalem to depose the impostor high priest Menelaus, who escaped and hid in the Akra fortress in Jerusalem. When Antiochus heard of this fighting, he meant to put down the revolt against himself and started his wrath against Judea, killing 40K to 80K men, women, and children, and selling into slavery about the same amount of people. He also confiscated the gold articles in the Temple, fulfilling 11:28.

He went back to Egypt, but in his absence, the brothers had reconciled and agreed to share power, leaving Antiochus IV out of Egypt's control, fulfilling 11:29. Antiochus attempted to go to war with Egypt again, but the brothers had appealed to Rome for help, who sent 3 senators led by Gaius Popillius Laenas in Alexandria to give him Rome's demand to leave Egypt alone and go home, drawing a circle around Antiochus with a stick at the time. Then, he was told not to leave the circle until he had given his response. Surprised by Rome's arrogance, he nevertheless agreed to do as the Romans demanded. Returning in rage, he took out his rage on the Jews by desecrating the Temple  and stopping the daily sacrifices, on 15th Kislev, 168 BCE, setting up an image of Zeus Olympius over the altar of burnt offering, killing a pig and offering its flesh on 25th Kislev. This fulfilled the abomination of desolation and 11:30-31.

He ordered EVERYONE to forsake God's laws, including sacrifices, worshipping on Shabbat, and circumcising their sons, under penalty of DEATH

Quote

Whenever Antiochus IV's men found copies of the Torah, they tore them to pieces and burned them. Whoever was found in possession of a Torah was put to death. According to Antiochus IV's decree, women who had their children circumcised were put to death, along with their entire families and those who had circumcised them. Still, many in Israel chose to die rather than to break the holy covenant.

This fulfilled 11:32-33. 

After this, the rise of the priest Mattathias and his sons (including Judas Maccabee, meaning "Yhudah [Judah] the Hammer") fulfilled 11:34.

Quote

 

When the Gentile nations around Judea heard of their victory over the Seleucids, they became very angry. They began to kill those Jews who lived among them. Judas Maccabee and his brother Simon went out to fight against those Gentiles who sought to kill the Jews and defeated them.

After the death of Judas Maccabee in battle in 161 BCE, persecution continued upon the Jews, as history records. Many wicked Jews who had opposed Judas and his goals took opportunity after his death to persecute and kill righteous Jews.

Beginning with Mattathias' leadership of the rebellion against Antiochus IV, the rule of the Hasmoneans (named after Mattathias' grandfather, Asmoneus) lasted from 168 until 37 BCE. The words "until the time of the end" refer to the end of this second period of Jewish sovereignty. The "appointed time" refers to the 70 weeks of years that Gabriel had earlier told Daniel about (Dan. 9:24-27), which led to the appearance of the Messiah.

 

This fulfills 11:35 and concludes the time of the Hasmoneans, ending in 37 BCE. After this, we are talking about "THE king" in verse 36 and this is about Herod the Great, who was indeed the puppet king of Judea for the Romans. As an Idumean, he was an Edomite whose family had been forced to convert to Judaism a couple of generations earlier. The verses from 11:36-39 were fulfilled in the reign of Herod the Great. Also, the "desire OF women" is NOT the "desire FOR women!" The desire of every Jewish woman was to be one to give birth to the future Messiah!

Quote

Verses 40-43 are a parenthetical insert describing the last major battle over the land of Israel before the Messiah appeared.

The major characters were the Roman Emperor Caesar Augustus (Octavius, the king of the north), his rival for power Mark Anthony ("Marcus Antonius," the king of the south) and his consort the queen Cleopatra. At first, Herod wanted to help Anthony but was removed from the war directly, being sent to fight the Nabatean king Malichus I. Later, when he realized that Anthony had almost lost that war, he changed allegiance to Octavius, who allowed Herod to continue ruling over Judea. Then, we cut back to Herod in 11:44:

Daniel 11:44-45 (KJV)

44 But tidings out of the east (the Magi) and out of the north (his oldest son Antipater, conspiring to take over his throne, sent him word from Rome that two of his other sons had slandered their father to Caesar) shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many (the boys 2 years old and under in Beit-Lechem or "Bethlehem", his two sons, and those who had pulled down the golden Roman eagle Herod had set up over the Temple gates). 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain (his winter palace in Jericho); yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

It is THEN that we continue to read,

Daniel 12:1-4 (KJV)

1 And at that time (Hebrew: uwVaaleet, the FIRST coming of the Messiah) shall Michael stand up (Luke 1:8-38), the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (STARTED by Yeshua` when He left them "desolate" and confirmed 40 years later with the destruction of the Temple), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (Hebrew: uwVaaleet, the SECOND coming of the Messiah) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

THAT'S how 11:44 fits in context!

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7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Actually, we have ...

Cyrus, king of Persia, c.535 BCE, in 11:1;
Cambyses II (c. 530-522 BCE);
Gaumata the Magian (also known as the pseudo-Smerdis, c. 522 BCE);
the Persian Darius I (the Great, 522-486 BCE); and
Xerxes (486-465 BCE), the husband of Esther, in 11:2.
Alexander the Great (333 BCE to his death on June 10, 323 BCE) in 11:3-4.
The "four winds" of 11:4 by 301 BCE were...
(1) Cassander, ruler over Greece,
(2) Lysimachus, ruler over Asia Minor,
(3) Seleucus I Nicator, ruler in Syria, Babylon, and Persia, and
(4) Ptolemy I Soter, ruler over the Holy Land and Egypt.
After 20 years, when Seleucus I killed Lysimachus, there were only the Seleucid kings in the north (Syria), and the Ptolemaic kings in the south (Egypt) in 11:5.

After several wars back and forth between the Seleucid Empire and the Ptolemies (11:6-11:20), we have Antiochus IV Epiphanes coming on the scene in 11:21, defeating Helidorus' designs for the throne of the Seleucid Empire with the aid of Eumenes II the king of Pergamum. He became co-regent and "protector" of Seleucus IV's infant son (also named Antiochus) and was conveniently absent when the younger Antiochus was murdered. This let Antiochus IV take sole possession of the throne. He totally wipes out all competition for his throne with his charm and alliances.
He also forced the high priest Onias III out of the priest's position. His hellenized brother, Joshua, who changed his name to "Jason," was installed as high priest instead, in 174 BCE. Onias III is the "prince of the covenant" in 11:22.

At "Here A Little, There A Little's" (www.herealittletherealittle.net) article on "DANIEL 11 - PROPHECY FULFILLED!" by Bryan T. Huie, one can read....

Then, Antiochus IV devised a new plan for gaining Egypt's provinces. He went into the richest parts of Egypt, and spread around some of the spoils from his war campaigns to secure the loyalty of the people. What he was REALLY doing was scoping out Egyptian strongholds to find out their power! This fulfilled 11:24.

Antiochus IV then attacks Ptolemy VI who responds with a very great and mighty army in 170 BCE, the Sixth Syrian War, and Antiochus IV defeats Ptolemy VI by riding out in the middle of the battle of Pelusium and ordering the Egyptians to be taken alive instead of killed. He gained Pelusium and then Memphis. Ptolemy's army won't stand and Antiochus IV wins from within as well as from without, Antiochus having corrupted several Egyptian ministers and officers. This fulfilled 11:25-26.

Antiochus IV said that he was his nephew's (Ptolemy VI's) great friend and wanted him to do well, even though his brother (Ptolemy VII Euergetes) was named king by the city of Alexandria. (This city was what Antiochus was actually after and he was hoping brother would turn against brother.) Across the table, Ptolemy VI thanked his uncle for his interest and blamed the war on his minister Eulaeus. (Meanwhile, he was trying to smooth things over with his brother Ptolemy VII so they could join forces against their uncle.) This fulfilled 11:27.

Also, while Antiochus IV was in Egypt, Judea had heard the rumor that Antiochus had been killed. The deposed high priest Jason raised an army of 1,000 men and attacked Jerusalem to depose the impostor high priest Menelaus, who escaped and hid in the Akra fortress in Jerusalem. When Antiochus heard of this fighting, he meant to put down the revolt against himself and started his wrath against Judea, killing 40K to 80K men, women, and children, and selling into slavery about the same amount of people. He also confiscated the gold articles in the Temple, fulfilling 11:28.

He went back to Egypt, but in his absence, the brothers had reconciled and agreed to share power, leaving Antiochus IV out of Egypt's control, fulfilling 11:29. Antiochus attempted to go to war with Egypt again, but the brothers had appealed to Rome for help, who sent 3 senators led by Gaius Popillius Laenas in Alexandria to give him Rome's demand to leave Egypt alone and go home, drawing a circle around Antiochus with a stick at the time. Then, he was told not to leave the circle until he had given his response. Surprised by Rome's arrogance, he nevertheless agreed to do as the Romans demanded. Returning in rage, he took out his rage on the Jews by desecrating the Temple  and stopping the daily sacrifices, on 15th Kislev, 168 BCE, setting up an image of Zeus Olympius over the altar of burnt offering, killing a pig and offering its flesh on 25th Kislev. This fulfilled the abomination of desolation and 11:30-31.

He ordered EVERYONE to forsake God's laws, including sacrifices, worshipping on Shabbat, and circumcising their sons, under penalty of DEATH

This fulfilled 11:32-33. 

After this, the rise of the priest Mattathias and his sons (including Judas Maccabee, meaning "Yhudah [Judah] the Hammer") fulfilled 11:34.

This fulfills 11:35 and concludes the time of the Hasmoneans, ending in 37 BCE. After this, we are talking about "THE king" in verse 36 and this is about Herod the Great, who was indeed the puppet king of Judea for the Romans. As an Idumean, he was an Edomite whose family had been forced to convert to Judaism a couple of generations earlier. The verses from 11:36-39 were fulfilled in the reign of Herod the Great. Also, the "desire OF women" is NOT the "desire FOR women!" The desire of every Jewish woman was to be one to give birth to the future Messiah!

The major characters were the Roman Emperor Caesar Augustus (Octavius, the king of the north), his rival for power Mark Anthony ("Marcus Antonius," the king of the south) and his consort the queen Cleopatra. At first, Herod wanted to help Anthony but was removed from the war directly, being sent to fight the Nabatean king Malichus I. Later, when he realized that Anthony had almost lost that war, he changed allegiance to Octavius, who allowed Herod to continue ruling over Judea. Then, we cut back to Herod in 11:44:

Daniel 11:44-45 (KJV)

44 But tidings out of the east (the Magi) and out of the north (his oldest son Antipater, conspiring to take over his throne, sent him word from Rome that two of his other sons had slandered their father to Caesar) shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many (the boys 2 years old and under in Beit-Lechem or "Bethlehem", his two sons, and those who had pulled down the golden Roman eagle Herod had set up over the Temple gates). 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain (his winter palace in Jericho); yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

It is THEN that we continue to read,

Daniel 12:1-4 (KJV)

1 And at that time (Hebrew: uwVaaleet, the FIRST coming of the Messiah) shall Michael stand up (Luke 1:8-38), the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (STARTED by Yeshua` when He left them "desolate" and confirmed 40 years later with the destruction of the Temple), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (Hebrew: uwVaaleet, the SECOND coming of the Messiah) thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

THAT'S how 11:44 fits in context!

So you have to devide a sentence in have by two thousand years to build your house of cards.

Roflol

Talk about stretching the truth.You stretched it 2000 years.lol

 

Its a shame so many people such as yourself cant see the propheciesbeing fulfilled before your own eyes.Nearly all of daniel 11 is about the united states  in the middle east.This has been being fulfilled before your very eyes and you cant see it.

But you can split a sentence by 2000 years.

Correction: 

You are splitting a verse by more than 2000 years.For all you know it could be apart by ten thousand years with your explanation.

What even happened to ,and i quote, "at that time"?

Edited by Shilohsfoal

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6 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you have to devide a sentence in half by two thousand years to build your house of cards.

Roflol

Talk about stretching the truth. You stretched it 2000 years. lol

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

And, you didn't back in verse, what, 36 or so?!

Mr. Huie acknowledged that take under 11:36:

Quote

 

Most Christian scholars try to insert a huge chronological gap in the prophecy here, making the rest of it apply not to the antetype Antiochus IV, but to the end-time type, the Antichrist. But staying in the time sequence context earlier alluded to by Gabriel (Dan. 11:1), what should we expect to see next in this prophecy? Was there a king who ruled Israel after the end of the Hasmonean era?

What appears to have caused scholars to stray away from the correct understanding at this point of the prophecy is that they were unable to find a successor to Antiochus IV who matched the description of "the king." But two points must be kept in mind in order to properly understand this prophecy. The subject is the Seleucid or Ptolemaic dynasties ONLY as these kingdoms affected Daniel's people. Therefore, the expression "the king," without any other description, could certainly mean one who was king over Israel. Secondly, the immediately preceding verses (Dan. 11:32-35) refer to the Jews and their situation during and after the Maccabean revolt. Based on the history of this period, we should look for the fulfillment of this verse by a "king" other than Antiochus IV or the Hasmonean rulers.

Both secular history and the New Testament record the acts of a king who appeared on the scene in Israel at the end of the Hasmonean period. As we shall see, this king fulfilled every prophetic description given in verses 36 through 39. That king was Herod the Great. ...

 

So, why should I accept YOUR gap when I have Yeshua`s (Jesus') gap in Matthew 23:38-39?

Yeshua` said,

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

This fulfilled part of Daniel 9:27 putting in the prophesied "gap":

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (the "woes") he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (the conclusion; the end), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Quote

Its a shame so many people such as yourself can't see the prophecies being fulfilled before your own eyes. Nearly all of daniel 11 is about the united states  in the middle east.This has been being fulfilled before your very eyes and you cant see it.

Really? Oh, sure; it's ALL about "the United States in the Middle East!" HOGWASH! Daniel, of course, knew ALL about the United States of America at a time in history before 535 BCE, didn't he?! (Tongue in cheek.) I can't see it because ... shhhh ... IT ISN'T THERE! IT NEVER HAS BEEN!

Quote

But you can split a sentence by 2000 years.

Correction: 

You are splitting a verse by more than 2000 years.For all you know it could be apart by ten thousand years with your explanation.

What even happened to ,and i quote, "at that time"?

You're inserting a gap of 2,000 years or so, too, y'know. You just choose to insert it elsewhere in this prophecy! That's the ONLY difference!

As far as the word-phrase translated "at that time," the Hebrew word is "uwVaa`eet." It's spelled "vav-Vet-`ayin-tav." With the vowel pointing, it's spelled "shureq(vav)-Vet-qamets-`ayin-tsere-tav," where a "Vet" is an undotted "Bet," sounding as a "V" instead of a "b." Thus, the word is pronounced "oo-vaw-`ate'," where the "`ayin" sounds like a "swallowed g" as in "`Aza" ("Gaza").

Its base meaning is ...

6256 `eet (ayth) [spelled "`ayin-tsere-tav"]. From `ad; time, especially (adverb with preposition) now, when, etc.
-- + after, (al-)ways, X certain, + continually, + evening, long, (due) season, so (long) as, (even-, evening-, noon-)tide, ((meal-)), what) time, when.

It's a word that actually means:

uw- = and
V- = in
(h)aa- = the
`eet = time

Mr. Huie has something to say about that word, too:

Quote

Chapter 12 starts with the Hebrew phrase uva`et, which is translated "at that time." When used in prophetic writings, this phrase always denotes the time of the appearance of Messiah to save Israel (Jer. 33:15; 50:4, 20; Joel 3:1; Zep. 3:20). At the beginning of this chapter, we finally see the time gap most seek to insert at Daniel 11:36. The context of the first verses in chapter 12 show that the prophecy has now jumped forward to the time of the ultimate salvation of Daniel's people, which includes a resurrection from the dead (cf. Rev. 11:15-18).

The only thing he failed to see was that there are TWO instances of this word in 12:1! And, EACH is talking about an appearance of the Messiah to save Israel - His two Advents, His two Comings! So, YES, there IS a gap in 12:1! And, you're also right that we don't know for sure that it will be a gap of only 2,000 years! We ASSUME that His Second Coming will be soon, but then, so did the Christians in 1000 A.D!

Edited by Retrobyter
to correct a misspelling

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1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

And, you didn't back in verse, what, 36 or so?!

Mr. Huie acknowledged that take under 11:36:

So, why should I accept YOUR gap when I have Yeshua`s (Jesus') gap in Matthew 23:38-39?

Yeshua` said,

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

This fulfilled part of Daniel 9:27 putting in the prophesied "gap":

Daniel 9:27 (KJV)

27 And he (the Messiah) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he (the Messiah) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations (the "woes") he (the Messiah) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (the conclusion; the end), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Really? Oh, sure; it's ALL about "the United States in the Middle East!" HOGWASH! Daniel, of course, knew ALL about the United States of America at a time in history before 535 BCE, didn't he?! (Tongue in cheek.) I can't see it because ... shhhh ... IT ISN'T THERE! IT NEVER HAS BEEN!

You're inserting a gap of 2,000 years or so, too, y'know. You just choose to insert it elsewhere in this prophecy! That's the ONLY difference!

As far as the word-phrase translated "at that time," the Hebrew word is "uwVaa`eet." It's spelled "vav-Vet-`ayin-tav." With the vowel pointing, it's spelled "shureq(vav)-Vet-qamets-`ayin-tsere-tav," where a "Vet" is an undotted "Bet," sounding as a "V" instead of a "b." Thus, the word is pronounced "oo-vaw-`ate'," where the "`ayin" sounds like a "swallowed g" as in "`Aza" ("Gaza").

Its base meaning is ...

6256 `eet (ayth) [spelled "`ayin-tsere-tav"]. From `ad; time, especially (adverb with preposition) now, when, etc.
-- + after, (al-)ways, X certain, + continually, + evening, long, (due) season, so (long) as, (even-, evening-, noon-)tide, ((meal-)), what) time, when.

It's a word that actually means:

uw- = and
V- = in
(h)aa- = the
`eet = time

Mr. Huie has something to say about that word, too:

The only thing he failed to see was that there are TWO instances of this word in 12:1! And, EACH is talking about an appearance of the Messiah to save Israel - His two Advents, His two Comings! So, YES, there IS a gap in 12:1! And, you're also right that we don't know for sure that it will be a gap of only 2,000 years! We ASSUME that His Second Coming will be soon, but then, so did the Christians in 1000 A.D!

Ive not inserted any gap at all.

You inserted thousands of years to the words "at that time"

Or you may inserrt milions of years if you choose.

God says "at the time".Then you say that time means thousands of years after that time.

 

Ive not inserted any gap.

Edited by Shilohsfoal

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1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Ive not inserted any gap at all.

You inserted thousands of years to the words "at that time"

Or you may inserrt milions of years if you choose.

God says "at the time".Then you say that time means thousands of years after that time.

 

Ive not inserted any gap.

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Hmmmm.... A DOUBLE denial. Looks like you haven't quite thought this through.

When Daniel 11 starts with Gabriel telling Daniel that there would be four more kings in Persia following "Darius the Mede," and then talks about Alexander the Great, and yet, the chapter's context concludes with "the United States in the Middle East," as you claim, then there must have been a gap in the chronology SOMEWHERE! Where did YOU jump almost 2,000 years (or more)?

Edited by Retrobyter

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3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Hmmmm.... A DOUBLE denial. Looks like you haven't quite thought this through.

When Daniel 11 starts with Gabriel telling Daniel that there would be four more kings in Persia following "Darius the Mede," and then talks about Alexander the Great, and yet, the chapter's context concludes with "the United States in the Middle East," as you claim, then there must have been a gap in the chronology SOMEWHERE! Where did YOU jump almost 2,000 years (or more)?

So you say the name Alexander the great is written in daniel 11.

Intetesting.

When did you rewrite Daniel for Daniel and where is you version found?

You havnt been misled by the interpretations of the pharisees now have you?

Edited by Shilohsfoal

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2 hours ago, Shilohsfoal said:

So you say the name Alexander the great is written in daniel 11.

Intetesting.

When did you rewrite Daniel for Daniel and where is you version found?

You havnt been misled by the interpretations of the pharisees now have you?

Shalom, Shilohsfoal.

Nope. Just reading what was written about what Gabriel said to Daniel:

Daniel 11:1-4 (KJV)

1 Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, even I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him. 2 And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than they all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia. 3 And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will. 4 And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others (other kingdoms) beside those.

We're seeing four individual kings of Persia listed, and then we're seeing a mighty king of Grecia (Macedonia) stand up; however, almost immediately, his kingdom shall be divided toward "the four winds of heaven," making "other kingdoms" beside Persia or Grecia! Who else could it be but Alexander the Great? It doesn't have to name him; he's known by the fate of his kingdom! 

It's said, "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it." And, as I've said before, the corollary to this is "Those who don't learn from history about a prophecy's fulfillment are doomed to think the prophecy is yet to be fulfilled in the future!"

Edited by Retrobyter
to fix a few things.
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