JoeCanada Posted February 1, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,248 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 671 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 1, 2019 15 hours ago, Revelation Man said: The Rewards promised to the Seven Churches are given unto the 24 Elders in Rev. 4:4. * A Crown - ( Rev. 2:10, 3:11, 4:4 and 4:10 ) * A Throne - ( Rev. 3:21 and 4:4 ) * A White Robe - ( Rev. 3:4-5 and Rev. 4:4 ) In Pre-tribulationism: the Rapture occurs BEFORE the tribulation. So the above definition of pre-trib fits perfectly with the 24 Elders being the Church in Heaven doesn't it ? Before the Seals are opened !! This however wouldn't work in Post tribulation theory or with pre-wrath theory either !! As per the 24 Elders meaning ? or why 24 Elders !! Well this fits 1 Chronicles 24:7-19 where we are told there are 24 orders of priests. 1 Chronicles 24:7 Now the first lot came forth to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah,..........18 The three and twentieth to Delaiah, the four and twentieth to Maaziah. 19 These were the orderings of them in their service to come into the house of the Lord, according to their manner, under Aaron their father, as the Lord God of Israel had commanded him. Rev. 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. So as you see, the 24 Elders can be nothing but the Church in Heaven. They get the same EXACT REWARDS that the Church were promised and we are indeed kings and priests unto God the Father. Hi RM, So the above definition of pre-trib fits perfectly with the 24 Elders being the Church in Heaven doesn't it ? I guess to the pre-trib, it fits perfectly. But they have to wrestle the scriptures to make it so. In Rev 5:8, we see the FOUR living creatures and the 24 elders fall down before the Lamb.....And they, the 4 and the 24, sang a new song.... " Worthy are You to take the book and break its seals; for You were slain , and purchased for God with your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth".....Rev 5:8-10 NASB Why do they use.....THEM and THEY? John Walvoord , the Dean of Pre-Tribulationism wrote in his commentary on the Book of Revelation that the identity of the 24 Elders was problematic because of the discrepancies in original documents and in no way did he attempt to equate the 24 Elders with the raptured Church. Scripture tells us that there are 4 creatures that also sing the song. These 4 living creatures are mentioned by the Prophets as angelic beings in Eze 1:10 and Eze 10:14. And throughout the Book of Revelation, the 4 living creatures are angelic angels. How then can they be redeemed and sing the same song as the 24 elders? "As per the 24 Elders meaning ? or why 24 Elders !! Well this fits 1 Chronicles 24:7-19 where we are told there are 24 orders of priests." Right. But not a great multitude which no man could count. You say the 24 elders represent the church. So do the 24 thrones which the elders sat on actually represent an innumerable amount of thrones as well? Or do the innumerable church members take turns sitting on the innumerable thrones to judge? Very illogical! Pre-trib says that the Church is not mentioned after Rev 4. But here, in Rev 5, they say that the elders represent the Church. Again, very contradictory! "hath made us kings and priests"...... We are already made priests (ministers)....... 2Cor 5:18 John Nelson Darby, co-founder of the Plymouth Brethren and father of pre-tribulationism, in his commentary on the book of Revelation, says the 24 elders are priests. Imagine that! Now, I have to correct what I said earlier. I stated that there was a $1,000 dollar reward .... I was wrong. It's $10,000 Goodfight Ministries offers a $10,000 reward to anyone that can find a single passage in scripture that clearly places the rapture of the Church before the tribulation. So far no one has been able to do that. Good Fight Ministries could safely raise their offer from $10,000 to $1,000,000. Whoa..... A million bucks! That's a good chunk of money. Maybe you don't need it for yourself.....well, you could really help out someone who could use it. Maybe a food bank, or a charity...... Why not step up to the plate and take the challenge. I would.......... if I could only find that Scripture....................... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted February 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,134 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2019 3 hours ago, JoeCanada said: Goodfight Ministries offers a $10,000 reward to anyone that can find a single passage in scripture that clearly places the rapture of the Church before the tribulation. So far no one has been able to do that. Good Fight Ministries could safely raise their offer from $10,000 to $1,000,000. Whoa..... A million bucks! That's a good chunk of money. Maybe you don't need it for yourself.....well, you could really help out someone who could use it. Maybe a food bank, or a charity...... Why not step up to the plate and take the challenge. I would.......... if I could only find that Scripture....................... So you must be a betting man. Since Jesus Christ is the Spoken Word, and the Spoken Word is the Scriptures of the Bible; and Scripture states that Jesus Christ does not know that day or hour. but only God the Father. Where then in Scripture is this day and hour of the Rapture. You say around the 6th Seal, Why? Did God the Father reveal this to you and not His Son. You must be special. Now I will ask you a question. When will the 70th Week Begin? Another Question; what is the exact midpoint of your lifespan? In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted February 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,065 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 551 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted February 2, 2019 9 hours ago, JoeCanada said: Hi RM, So the above definition of pre-trib fits perfectly with the 24 Elders being the Church in Heaven doesn't it ? I guess to the pre-trib, it fits perfectly. But they have to wrestle the scriptures to make it so. In Rev 5:8, we see the FOUR living creatures and the 24 elders fall down before the Lamb.....And they, the 4 and the 24, sang a new song.... " Worthy are You to take the book and break its seals; for You were slain , and purchased for God with your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they will reign on the earth".....Rev 5:8-10 NASB Why do they use.....THEM and THEY? John Walvoord , the Dean of Pre-Tribulationism wrote in his commentary on the Book of Revelation that the identity of the 24 Elders was problematic because of the discrepancies in original documents and in no way did he attempt to equate the 24 Elders with the raptured Church. Scripture tells us that there are 4 creatures that also sing the song. These 4 living creatures are mentioned by the Prophets as angelic beings in Eze 1:10 and Eze 10:14. And throughout the Book of Revelation, the 4 living creatures are angelic angels. How then can they be redeemed and sing the same song as the 24 elders? "As per the 24 Elders meaning ? or why 24 Elders !! Well this fits 1 Chronicles 24:7-19 where we are told there are 24 orders of priests." Right. But not a great multitude which no man could count. You say the 24 elders represent the church. So do the 24 thrones which the elders sat on actually represent an innumerable amount of thrones as well? Or do the innumerable church members take turns sitting on the innumerable thrones to judge? Very illogical! Pre-trib says that the Church is not mentioned after Rev 4. But here, in Rev 5, they say that the elders represent the Church. Again, very contradictory! "hath made us kings and priests"...... We are already made priests (ministers)....... 2Cor 5:18 John Nelson Darby, co-founder of the Plymouth Brethren and father of pre-tribulationism, in his commentary on the book of Revelation, says the 24 elders are priests. Imagine that! Now, I have to correct what I said earlier. I stated that there was a $1,000 dollar reward .... I was wrong. It's $10,000 Goodfight Ministries offers a $10,000 reward to anyone that can find a single passage in scripture that clearly places the rapture of the Church before the tribulation. So far no one has been able to do that. Good Fight Ministries could safely raise their offer from $10,000 to $1,000,000. Whoa..... A million bucks! That's a good chunk of money. Maybe you don't need it for yourself.....well, you could really help out someone who could use it. Maybe a food bank, or a charity...... Why not step up to the plate and take the challenge. I would.......... if I could only find that Scripture....................... ALL OF THAT...........Just to avoid speaking about the Fact that the 24 Elders are in Heaven in the THRONE ROOM before the Seals are opened ? Do you understand what that means ? Not talking about it isn't going to make the facts go away brother. We are in Heaven because we are RAPTURED THERE !! Pretty basic stuff brother. God Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 771 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Online Share Posted February 2, 2019 On 2/1/2019 at 11:06 AM, JoeCanada said: Hi RM, The churches "Mission" won't be completed UNTIL the return of Christ. That is why the church goes thru the tribulation...70th week. It will be the Churches greatest time of testimony. If they are raptured before the 70th week, then who will be left to testify? Certainly NOT the Jews. They won't accept Christ till the end of the tribulation. And it can't be the unchurched gentiles who are left. What do they know? "the New Covenant is the oldest Covenant in reality"..... Your rebuttal is anything but logical. You don't even address the issue. Respectfully, God will send the 2 Witness and the 144000 Israel to replace the raptured church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeySpeaksAgain Posted February 3, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 269 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 3, 2019 On 2/1/2019 at 12:05 AM, Revelation Man said: You mean the ones I answered but you seemingly can't give a simple rebut to ? For starters, one thing I never do, unless it's the Armstrong teachings, is try to associate anyone with other peoples teachings, God teaches me, and I read many other people's work, some I agree with and some I find that I disagree with, but the Holy Spirit should be our guide in the end. Just because the 75 to 85 percent or vast majority of Christendom doesn't agree with your positions on the Rapture, doesn't make us all disciples of so and so, stop trying to peg everyone who disagrees with you brother, you are in the vast minority as per the Rapture beliefs, but I am not trying to pigeonhole you as being a follower of X, Y, or Z !! It is what it is. Pre trib is fact as per the Church as far as I am concerned. I can hear it, but I heard it long ago and read the bible and saw that the pre tribulation rapture was the only POV that jibed with the bible IMHO. I can hear anything, but when I point out FACTUAL REASONS/Scriptures why it can't be true and all I get is crickets, I take that as people are just too entrenched in positions to change, for whatever reason, what I never do is get entrenched in my thoughts so deep that I can't be moved. Now when the Holy Spirit shows me something, I then can not be moved, of course. We (Church) Return with Christ in Rev. 19, while the Beast is STILL ON EARTH !! We (Church) are seen in Rev. 4 and 5 before the Seals are opened and in Revelation 7 just before the Trumpets are blown. We are with Christ for 7 years in Heaven. Those who repent after the Rapture will indeed suffer tribulation, but not the Raptured Church. Now you can disagree with me, that is OK, but I use the Scriptures, and show why the Scriptures used against the pre trib position don't mesh. Whatever opinion you desire is A OK with me, but I am going to point out the Scripture that show the pre-trib position brother, it's my job as a preacher to do so. But it does line up with scriptures, the Pre trib is easy to see. You can't cite any scriptures about the pre trib, that I can't explain as per to why peoples belief therein is a miscalculation of said scriptures. Not one !! But Rev. 19 can't be explained by the post trib guys. Amongst many other passages. We see the Church in Rev. 4 and 5 also, and I have proven it many times. Well why would you cite the JW, I mean Satan has been deceiving for 200o years (and even before that of course), I decided to listen to Jesus almost 35 years ago. I prove everything I say with Scriptures brother. The Rapture is for the Church, thus it's basically not in the Old Testament, it can be vaguely seen in a few places. But we can understand what happens to Israel, and thus understand things as per what will happen to the Church. It is called Jacob's Troubles for a reason. As per the New Testament, only Paul, the Disciple of the Gentiles was given the Rapture understanding, and Paul tells us about it in the New Testament chapters, 1 Corinthians 15 and in 1 Thessalonians 4 amongst other places. Jesus gives it unto us in parables because it was only intended for Paul to conceptualize it to the masses, not the other Disciples per se. So we do see it in the 10 Virgins parable where 5 are shut out of the wedding and in Matthew 24:36-51 where one is taken and another is left and where Jesus' return for the Church is imminent, but his Second Coming WILL NOT BE IMMINENT, it will be an orderly event, as in Vials 1-6 which leads to the 7th Vial, that is a countdown. All of the Scriptures have to be used to gain any understandings. Jesus tells it to us in Matthew 24:36-51 but the post tribbers say it means something else. Then in 2 Thessalonians 2, we are specifically told that the Church must DEPART before the Man of Sin can come forth and BEFORE the Day of the Lord can come upon us. It has nothing to do with falling away from the Faith, the Subject is a Gathering together unto the Lord, BEFORE the Day of the Lord, which starts at the First Seal and runs to the 7th Vial. We see the Church in Heaven before the Seals are opened !! Rev. 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. The different views of who these 24 Elders are here below....................see the Blue. 1.) The 24 Elders are Angels...........................Well, we see humans called Elders but never have we seen Angels called elders. Also throughout the book of Revelation Elders and Angels are distinguished. Thirdly in Rev. 5:9 the Elders sing a Song of Redemption, so lets discount that viewpoint. 2.) The Elders are the Church AND Israel..........The problem with this is that Israel will not be Resurrected (Daniel 12:1-2) and rewarded until the Second Coming of Christ. 3.) The 24 Elders are the Church..........BINGO..........The reasons are many, I will list them below: The Rewards promised to the Seven Churches are given unto the 24 Elders in Rev. 4:4. * A Crown - ( Rev. 2:10, 3:11, 4:4 and 4:10 ) * A Throne - ( Rev. 3:21 and 4:4 ) * A White Robe - ( Rev. 3:4-5 and Rev. 4:4 ) In Pre-tribulationism: the Rapture occurs BEFORE the tribulation. So the above definition of pre-trib fits perfectly with the 24 Elders being the Church in Heaven doesn't it ? Before the Seals are opened !! This however wouldn't work in Post tribulation theory or with pre-wrath theory either !! As per the 24 Elders meaning ? or why 24 Elders !! Well this fits 1 Chronicles 24:7-19 where we are told there are 24 orders of priests. 1 Chronicles 24:7 Now the first lot came forth to Jehoiarib, the second to Jedaiah,..........18 The three and twentieth to Delaiah, the four and twentieth to Maaziah. 19 These were the orderings of them in their service to come into the house of the Lord, according to their manner, under Aaron their father, as the Lord God of Israel had commanded him. Rev. 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. So as you see, the 24 Elders can be nothing but the Church in Heaven. They get the same EXACT REWARDS that the Church were promised and we are indeed kings and priests unto God the Father. So it's all there brother, I am not just guessing, I just don't take passages out of the contextual composition that they were given unto us in without TRYING THEM via all other verses/passages to see if they jibe. I am very good at Chess/Riddles, I guess that is why God called me unto Prophecy brother. God Bless The first three chapters of Revelation are focused on Christians, and looking at history it is pretty easy to see how it reflects the "growth" of the Church as a whole. The first 5 letters go from the first century through to the present age. The 4th and 5th representing Catholicism and the "reformed" churches respectively. The 6th and 7th represent the raptured believers and those left behind. Now, the words "come up hither" are falsely interpreted by most to refer to the rapture. Those fond of doing word studies should compare this to being "snatched" away which is something far different, but that would not be convenient for their purpose. The context is merely a new or distinct vision being shown to John. This technique of writing is necessary when talking about various groups of people that overlap each other and have so many things happening to each of them often at the same time. That is why it is so confusing. But, even with all that, there still is quite a bit of time sequence integrity maintained. For example, the 7th seal gets "interrupted" by Chapter 7 (the marking of the 144K before the final 3.5 year tribulation can begin). That means God is telling us the 6th seal is associated with the rapture/start of the tribulation and the 7th seal occurs at some point before the 2nd coming. Yes, Chapter 4 has a throne being set up in heaven, 24 elders in white robes with crowns, 7 lamps (which are described as the "spirits of the churches" and all ready established in heaven back in Ch. 1), and 4 beasts (released with the first four seal openings) which are constantly praising Jesus (the one on the newly appointed throne). Oh yes, and notice how Jesus is ONLY given three honors at this time (glory, honor, and power). Another question to ask is what is this "thing" that is sealed? Go back to the 70 weeks prophecy and notice how there is a "sealing" associated with it and that all those here at least can agree that there is a time period that is hidden from the Jewish people and preventing the 70 weeks prophecy from being completed... right? Revelation is the ONLY prophecy book given to the Church concerning the Church Age and it is hidden from understanding by the Jews, but recognized by all that the Jews will have their blindness removed before the 2nd coming. It is logical to then assume these "seals" are a prophecy that deals with the Church Age. So, Jesus is resurrected and returns 'in glory' to heaven where a throne is set up for Him. When He rose from the grave, the saints of the OT (before the cross) ROSE WITH HIM. There is actually no real information in the Bible as to the identity of these 24 elders. Yes, they have crowns and robes which are the same things given to Christians, but just how are these things obtained. Crowns are given to the overcomers in the church of Smyrna which had to endure bad leadership and persecution to the point of martyrdom. Robes Are given to overcomers in Thyatira whom endured false teachings but were able to increase in works of charity, faith, service, and patience. All these things can be rightly assigned to the saints (elders) who overcame during the OT times before the cross. The lamps or lights are the spirits of the churches sitting on top of the 7 candlesticks (churches) as introduced back in chapter 1. As the "light-bearers", we Christians are/were seen represented in heaven at the very start of the Church Age as candlesticks, and so seeing all these now in chapter 4 also points to the beginning. The beasts have four faces: Lion, Man, Calf, Eagle and they did not rest day or night. Ezek 1 shows these same four beasts, but they are connected and cannot move independently, but now they are separated. All these things are a perfect picture of when Jesus FIRST goes to heaven (first century). Now, Chapter 5, God is holding a sealed scroll. A simple search for "right hand" in Scriptures reveals that wisdom, understanding and power are carried in the right hand. Sealing also denotes God's authority much like a covenant that cannot be changed or erased. Rev. 5:5-10 says Jesus HAS PREVAILED (when was this?) and has the authority to open the seals. Rev. 5:11 we see tens of thousands angels, the beasts, and the 24 elders. Notice NO Christians. Verse 12 says Jesus is now worthy to receive 1) Power, 2) Riches, 3) Wisdom, 4) Strength, 5) Honor, 6) Glory, & 7) Blessing. Verse 13 says Everything and everybody says (at this point on the time line) blessing, honor, power and glory be given to Jesus. Do you notice there are only 4 of the 7 listed? Why, because the rest come later (riches, wisdom, and strength). "Blessing" has now been added to the original three, but only comes AFTER He receives the sealed scroll from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeCanada Posted February 5, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 75 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,248 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 671 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 2/1/2019 at 5:45 PM, Montana Marv said: So you must be a betting man. Since Jesus Christ is the Spoken Word, and the Spoken Word is the Scriptures of the Bible; and Scripture states that Jesus Christ does not know that day or hour. but only God the Father. Where then in Scripture is this day and hour of the Rapture. You say around the 6th Seal, Why? Did God the Father reveal this to you and not His Son. You must be special. Now I will ask you a question. When will the 70th Week Begin? Another Question; what is the exact midpoint of your lifespan? In Christ Montana Marv Hi MM, No, I'm not much of a betting man at all. Been there...done that. "Did God the Father reveal this to you and not His Son. You must be special." You're right.....ONLY God the Father knows the DAY and HOUR. If we look at Rev 6:12, the 6th seal......we see there is a great earthquake, the sun and moon become black as sackcloth, stars fall to the earth, the sky split apart, and every mountain and island move out of their places. The rich and great men, kings and commanders hide themselves in caves saying to the rocks to "fall on us". This is the same as Joel 2:31. Then.....the 144,000 are sealed. And then what.......John then sees a great multitude show up and are standing before the throne. So between the opening of the sixth seal and the seventh seal, there is a segment of time. We don't know how long. The celestial/terrestrial event at the opening of the 6th seal could be several days or a week, or? This is why only God the Father knows the DAY and the HOUR. It will be a DAY during this time period after the 6th seal events, the celestial/terrestrial disasters......at an HOUR of the Father's choosing. But we do know when the Resurrection - Rapture happens. After the opening of the 6th seal. Before the WRATH OF GOD commences. "When will the 70th Week Begin?" Approximately 3 1/2 years before the Abomination of Desolation that Jesus warns us about. " Another Question; what is the exact midpoint of your lifespan?" Well, let me ask Alexsa and find out.............. The exact midpoint of my lifespan is........... Yup, right in the middle, just where I thought it would be. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted February 5, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,134 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, JoeCanada said: You're right.....ONLY God the Father knows the DAY and HOUR. If we look at Rev 6:12, the 6th seal......we see there is a great earthquake, the sun and moon become black as sackcloth, stars fall to the earth, the sky split apart, and every mountain and island move out of their places. The rich and great men, kings and commanders hide themselves in caves saying to the rocks to "fall on us". This is the same as Joel 2:31. Then.....the 144,000 are sealed. And then what.......John then sees a great multitude show up and are standing before the throne. So between the opening of the sixth seal and the seventh seal, there is a segment of time. We don't know how long. The celestial/terrestrial event at the opening of the 6th seal could be several days or a week, or? This is why only God the Father knows the DAY and the HOUR. It will be a DAY during this time period after the 6th seal events, the celestial/terrestrial disasters......at an HOUR of the Father's choosing. But we do know when the Resurrection - Rapture happens. After the opening of the 6th seal. Then I thank you for your wrong answer. Between the 6th and 7th Seals. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForHisGlory37 Posted February 5, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 722 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 4:57 PM, R. Hartono said: Wise virgins shall be taken, foolish Virgins shall be left foolish virgins will probably take the MOB, they could not "overcome" or "endure to the end" So Jesus will say, Depart from me, I never knew you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frienduff thaylorde Posted February 5, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 17 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 13,256 Content Per Day: 5.35 Reputation: 1 Days Won: 62 Joined: 07/07/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 03/25/1972 Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, ForHisGlory37 said: foolish virgins will probably take the MOB, they could not "overcome" or "endure to the end" So Jesus will say, Depart from me, I never knew you. You are loved sister . Lots of folks are gonna talk them selves into all out evil and will take the mark . Its sad , but its true . sadly we will see many so called Christians taking it and reasoning out as they call us crazy for not taking it . I mean they gonna say NO WAY is this it ,we shoulda been raptured before the mark. THAT scares me for so many . You watch how many gonna take that nasty thing , that pope francis called a gift from GOD that can help solve all the worlds ills . I don't think folks are paying attention . BUT IT IS the FP that actually causes the world to worshp the beast and take its mark . Folks don't realize how far along we are . DO THEY 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForHisGlory37 Posted February 5, 2019 Group: Senior Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 38 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 641 Content Per Day: 0.28 Reputation: 722 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/02/2017 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) On 1/29/2019 at 7:55 PM, Jostler said: That's a really tough passage to swallow for some, but it's hard to deny black and white. Not only are there saints present for satan to "make war" against, but somehow God's love and ultimate plan allows for them to be overcome. I asked Him how to reconcile that passage with the fact He is love and He has answered me. It's an AMAZING revelation and part of (only part) is found in Amos 8 and Psalm 149. My WHOLE understanding of the tribulation, the wrath and our role in all of it was completely transformed when He integrated those parts of the Word into my big picture. It's removed any trace of fear of the tribulation and replaced it with an eagerness to get on with it! Even so Lord Jesus, come quickly! Hallelujah! I wouldn't miss this for ownership of the world Hi Jostler, God's perfect love casts out all fear. We know that He is who He says He is. He always keeps His promises. We know that we will be supernaturally protected like the Israelites in Goshen when the plagues were being poured out upon Pharoah and Egypt. How about this verse: Revelation 6:6 “And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.” God said, "Hurt not the oil and the wine," which sybolize the Holy Spirit (Zechariah 4:3,6)and the blood of Jesus (Matt 26:26-29. Even though the Church was in darkness, God preserved His true Gospel of salvation. All true believers have the Holy Spirit and have been washed and cleansed by the Blood of Jesus. Edited February 5, 2019 by ForHisGlory37 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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