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Why Pretrib Logic Fails


JoeCanada

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1 minute ago, Cletus said:

it would be better to go with God.  Ask Him to show you the truth about when.  I did.  He answered.  took Him around a decade of prayerful study to show me all of it He has.  dont claim to know everything, but enough to know pre trib isnt how it will be playing out. 

Well we agree then. Walter Martin had  a posttrib view. Are you saying God does not use bible teachers in the body of christ ? Teachers are a gift to the church. Yes also seek out the scriptures and read and compare what the teacher is teaching. God will give us insight. But everyone says they get there understanding from God. We can be mistaken.  Let's be humble.

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6 minutes ago, Cletus said:

it would be better to go with God.  Ask Him to show you the truth about when.  I did.  He answered.  took Him around a decade of prayerful study to show me all of it He has.  dont claim to know everything, but enough to know pre trib isnt how it will be playing out. 

I am not saying your not humble. Sorry if it seem that.

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Wise virgins shall be taken, foolish Virgins shall be left

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3 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Wise virgins shall be taken, foolish Virgins shall be left

When ? at the post rapture.

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15 hours ago, Cletus said:

i do not think that.  not at all.  I had not actually known of what the man preached you mentioned.  I always point people to hear from God rather than men.  yes listen to men, but ultimately get with God.  

edit:  I was sitting in church one day. preacher was preaching and my mind was going in and out of hearing the preacher as i drifted in thought.  my thoughts led me to pray this:  God what is truth?  you dont ever lie.  but how do i know this man preaching on this stage is telling the truth... he may even think he is telling me the truth but may not be.  God give me truth, if you do not i may never have it. Please give me truth.   I felt in  my spirit God heard and honored that prayer and he began to show me things.  a couple months later this particular church i used to attend was always saying things like torture and persecution is not my thing and i do not need it but praise God because we wont be here.  the congregation repeated the preachers words often... we wont be here.  one day I was speaking to a younger fella. he always wore his hair slicked back and wore a suit.  He was full of the Spirit.  we got to talking and the last sentence he spoke to me was.... but we wont be here and we both shared a laugh as we turned to go to our seats.  as I turned my spirit knotted up in me.  I asked whats wrong?  I had unction to open my bible.  i did.  felt something grab my eyes and fix them on one scripture that totally debunked pretrib and The Spirit gave me understanding.  I was confused.  at that time i didnt even know there was a mid trib or post trib view.  i began to pray about this.  little by little God began showing me and it was about one year later I learned there were other views.  pretrib is what is more commonly taught.  after a decade of prayerful study God has only shown me post trib is how it plays out.  God does not say pretrib.  the bible does not say pretrib... and this is why i tell people to pray and ask God about this.  sorry if this hurts someones feelings but pretrib is a false teaching.  people say there are scriptures to back up pre mid and post trib teachings.... no.  no there is not.  God does not contradict Himself.  there can only be one that is the correct interpretation... and once i learned there was more than pretrib teaching i went thru every scripture i could find to see how each way played out.  when you do this scripture is obvious its post trib.  God says post trib, and the bible says post trib. 

That was a good story. You know God's servant Corrie Ten Boom said false teachers will tell you you will not go through the tribulation. The post trib view is right. There is only one view taught in the bible. But I will not fight about it. They can believe in the pre trib if they want to bad enough.

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On 1/27/2019 at 11:53 AM, Wayne222 said:

When ? at the post rapture.

Rapture is the wise virgins taken by the Bride, Tribulation is foolish Virgins left for the antichrist.

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On 1/26/2019 at 9:58 PM, Wayne222 said:

That was a good story. You know God's servant Corrie Ten Boom said false teachers will tell you you will not go through the tribulation. The post trib view is right. There is only one view taught in the bible. But I will not fight about it. They can believe in the pre trib if they want to bad enough.

And yet Corrie Ten Boom will miss this future Tribulation during the 70th Week.  As will all believers.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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On 1/29/2019 at 7:48 PM, Cletus said:

Rev 13:6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9  If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10  He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

That's a really tough passage to swallow for some, but it's hard to deny black and white.  Not only are there saints present for satan to "make  war" against, but somehow God's love and ultimate plan allows for them to be overcome. 

I asked Him how to  reconcile that passage with  the fact He is love and He  has answered me.  It's an AMAZING revelation and part of (only part) is found in Amos 3 (particularly verse 7)  and Psalm 149.  My  WHOLE understanding of the tribulation, the wrath and our role in all of it was completely transformed when He integrated those parts of the  Word into my big picture.  It's removed any  trace of fear of the tribulation and replaced it with an eagerness to get on with  it!  :)

Even so Lord Jesus, come quickly!  Hallelujah!

I wouldn't miss this for ownership  of the world  :)

Edited by Jostler
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20 hours ago, Jostler said:

That's a really tough passage to swallow for some, but it's hard to deny black and white.  Not only are there saints present for satan to "make  war" against, but somehow God's love and ultimate plan allows for them to be overcome. 

I asked Him how to  reconcile that passage with  the fact He is love and He  has answered me.  It's an AMAZING revelation and part of (only part) is found in Amos 8 and Psalm 149.  My  WHOLE understanding of the tribulation, the wrath and our role in all of it was completely transformed when He integrated those parts of the  Word into my big picture.  It's removed any  trace of fear of the tribulation and replaced it with an eagerness to get on with  it!  :)

Even so Lord Jesus, come quickly!  Hallelujah!

I wouldn't miss this for ownership  of the world  :)

Who told you this ? Are you sure you are correct here or are you assuming things that don't really jibe brother. I took care of the OP and he answerd nary a word of course.

As per the Saints will be overcome by Satan, do you know who that is referencing ? Here you go.

Dan. 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen (Jesus), which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

The Jews are THE SAINTS that will be Conquered by the Little Horn/Anti-Christ at the 1260 for 1260 days and that will end when Jesus Returns. 

So THE SAINTS are not the Christian Church per se, which will be in Heaven Marrying the Lamb, it will be the 2/3 Jews who don't Repent who are overcome, the 1/3 who do Repent Flee Judea, thus they are overcome in that them must live in the Mountains for 3.5 years.

The remnant Church (those Gentiles that Repent after the Rapture) are also overcome, in that they are the Martyrs under the 5th Seal. 

 

So what happens when we go by singular passages without putting them in their proper "CONTEXT" is we get confusion. Yes, there are Saints on earth during the 70th Week/Tribulation period, but it is not the Church/Bride of Christ. Now the passage makes perfect sense in that yes the Church has been Raptured, AND the Saints are overcome. 

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23 hours ago, Cletus said:

Rev 13:6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:9  If any man have an ear, let him hear.
Rev 13:10  He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

If one has the Holy spirit in them, Satan cannot overcome them.  Resist the Devil and he will flee from you.  Now there maybe future saints without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who may be overcome by Satan.  Satan has been making war with the Church for 2000 years, why now are they being overcome.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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