OldCoot Posted February 16, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted February 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, Last Daze said: The singular bride is described in Revelation 21. It is comprised of both OT and NT saints. I am not convinced that OT saints make up the bride. The betrothal of the Bride occurred at the Last Supper. The OT saints had already died previous to that time. And if the Bride is gathered to the Groom and they enter the Chupah to consummate the marriage for 7 days / 1 week / Daniel's 70th week, then what of those who place their trust in Messiah and are martyred during the calamity going on the earth? They would not be part of the bride either. And the 7 days of the Chupah idea is not far fetched. It was most definitely a part of the Hebrew marriage ritual of the 1st Century. You can easily find extensive documentation of this. Yeshua in John 14:2 in conjunction with Isaiah 26 seems to be following this same prescription with His bride. That the Bride is taken and hidden in the marriage chamber by Yeshua just like the groom in the ancient Hebrew marriage would come for his bride and take her to the marriage chamber. Either way, as Yahweh stated so well.... Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. The head and the body are one flesh. The groom and the bride are one flesh. Yeshua and the redeemed are one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCoot Posted February 16, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 13 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,192 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 429 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/29/2017 Status: Offline Birthday: 01/12/1957 Share Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Diaste said: Only two groups, saved and unsaved. Abraham's seed are the saved of which is included every nation, language, tribe and tongue in Christ; and those in rebellion against God our Father are the unsaved. "There is no need for them to be driven to repentance via the tribulation period." Can I assume you mean they have no sin from which to repent? They are perfect in their ways and have a direct path to heaven? Well... " If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." - 1 John 1 Is this just lazy research? "There are those who are in Messiah (both Hebrew and Gentile)" Paul disputes this concisely and unequivocally. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3 And the pretrib garbage hits the trash heap again. On the latter part, spiritually there is no distinction within the Body but you most likely would hear an uproar if men started using the same bathroom at the same time as the women at your congregation. Try it out and see if there is neither male or female in the Body. There are indeed distinctions in the world.... the Hebrews, the Gentiles, and the Body of Messiah. Edited February 16, 2019 by OldCoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted February 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.13 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, OldCoot said: I am not convinced that OT saints make up the bride. I'm not sure how you can get around it. Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, “Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper. It had a great and high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel. There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west. And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. Revelation 21:9-14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted February 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,134 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2019 13 hours ago, iamlamad said: I think not. I think all those who worship demons and idols will be dead by the 1000 year reign. All those who take the Mark or worship the Beast will die before the 1000 years. Other idol worshipers will make it to the end. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2019 40 minutes ago, Montana Marv said: All those who take the Mark or worship the Beast will die before the 1000 years. Other idol worshipers will make it to the end. In Christ Montana Marv 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Would the millennial kingdom be included in "the Kingdom of God?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, OldCoot said: On the latter part, spiritually there is no distinction within the Body but you most likely would hear an uproar if men started using the same bathroom at the same time as the women at your congregation. Try it out and see if there is neither male or female in the Body. There are indeed distinctions in the world.... the Hebrews, the Gentiles, and the Body of Messiah. Ha ha! Good argument! It seems there is still male and female while we are in the flesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, OldCoot said: Thank you for that!! One can know they are probably on the right course when the thought police show up and use Democrat National Committee campaign tactics as opposed to brotherly discourse. Always the goal is to shut down anyone who has a alternate view from theirs . One can alway tell who is of the world if one is just patient. Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2019 3 hours ago, OldCoot said: I am not convinced that OT saints make up the bride. The betrothal of the Bride occurred at the Last Supper. The OT saints had already died previous to that time. And if the Bride is gathered to the Groom and they enter the Chupah to consummate the marriage for 7 days / 1 week / Daniel's 70th week, then what of those who place their trust in Messiah and are martyred during the calamity going on the earth? They would not be part of the bride either. And the 7 days of the Chupah idea is not far fetched. It was most definitely a part of the Hebrew marriage ritual of the 1st Century. You can easily find extensive documentation of this. Yeshua in John 14:2 in conjunction with Isaiah 26 seems to be following this same prescription with His bride. That the Bride is taken and hidden in the marriage chamber by Yeshua just like the groom in the ancient Hebrew marriage would come for his bride and take her to the marriage chamber. Either way, as Yahweh stated so well.... Genesis 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. The head and the body are one flesh. The groom and the bride are one flesh. Yeshua and the redeemed are one. I have often thought that the marriage and supper must wait for the Old Testament saints to be resurrected - for they will be guests. As I see it, the church will be resurrected a moment before the 6th seal wrath of God begins, and the Old Testament saints will be resurrected on the last day - at the 7th vial. Then the marriage can begin as shown in Rev. 19. I have not studied and have arrived at no conclusions about the Old Testament saints being included in the bride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2019 5 hours ago, Diaste said: Pardon me for interjecting here but that is totally incorrect as Rev 12 says no such thing. Let me post the actual words from which you concoct your personal narrative. "5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and his throne." No where here does it say the child is caught up immediately upon birth. A man child is the child of his mother till the day of the man child's death, so this child in Rev 12:5 could be any age. There is no timing language in this verse. I know to what you are alluding, that the church is the man child born of Israel and will be caught up before the bad stuff happens. But your own logic betrays you. If the man child is the church and is caught up as soon as it is born, then the man child, according to your logic, should have been caught up in the first century, as soon as it was born. Further, man child in Rev 12:5 is not a collective, it's singular and particular; a male son. Again faulty logic, and coupled with lazy research. "Does not get to hold her child"... Do you just make it all up as you go along? Pretrib rapture is a made up concept, with not just a dearth of evidence in support, but fully lacking even a single exculpatory speck. You'll see. I hope you call on the Lord in your need in that day. You were doing SO WELL here until you diatribe on the pretrib rapture! The truth is just as you said, Rev. 12:1-5 is about JESUS and how the Dragon tried to murder Him as a young child. OF COURSE He was not caught up as a child. These five verses, written as a parenthesis, were ONLY to show how the dragon tried to murder the Messiah as a child. These verses have ZERO - NADA - NOTHING to do with the rapture of the church. However, this does NOT negate the pretrib rapture, for that is TRUTH also. Why do you think untold millions of believers are pretrib? Only because they follow their pastor? You do not have a corner on studying in the bible! When taken together, all the end time scriptures point to a pretrib rapture. Don't doubt this! God has made an escape plan: YOU can take it. Or you can refuse it: your choice. If you just really WANT to meet the Beast, I am convinced God will allow it and you will be left behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montana Marv Posted February 16, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 19 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 3,134 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 1,091 Days Won: 2 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted February 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, iamlamad said: 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Would the millennial kingdom be included in "the Kingdom of God?" The kingdom of God is heavenly. The 1000 year reign is earthly. In Christ Montana Marv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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