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Why Pretrib Logic Fails


JoeCanada

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Just now, simplejeff said:

No.

 

Corrie ten Boom warned the churches about this deception decades ago.

So did the Chinese Pastors longer ago.

It is "false comfort",  deceiving,  and does not prepare anyone for what they are going to have to go through.

Corrie Ten Boom was not scriptural in her remarks. She was basing her remarks on her experiences. We must base our doctrine in scripture, not on experience.

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Writers! The pretrib rapture is both logical and scriptural! Why fight the truth? 

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1 minute ago, iamlamad said:

Corrie Ten Boom was not scriptural in her remarks. She was basing her remarks on her experiences. We must base our doctrine in scripture, not on experience.

False witness if someone told you that.  She was better versed and true to Scripture than anyone you know.

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Just now, simplejeff said:

False witness if someone told you that.  She was better versed and true to Scripture than anyone you know.

What she said is simply not truth. Why is that so difficult to grasp? She disagreed with Paul in 1 Thes. 5.

She disagreed with John when He showed us the great crowd, too large to number, in heaven before "the trib" begins.

I am not saying the church will not go through some hard times: it may. But those hard times will NOT be God's wrath as in the 70th week.

Edited by iamlamad
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Direct quote from Corrie Ten Boom:

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days.  Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

Notice carefully her words: "There will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this." NO pretribber that I know of has ever said Christians can or will escape all "tribulation." The bible makes no such promises. What we will escape is just what Paul tells us we will escape: God's wrath on earth. We see the start of God's wrath at the 6th seal, then throughout the trumpet judgments, and then in the vials of His wrath - that is through the entire 70th week. What Corrie Ten Boom went through was NOT God being angry with her! It was the DEVIL being angry at her. Jesus as much as told her and all other believers that the world hated Him and would hate us. 

It is the same with those believers put to death or persecuted in China: that was the devil's anger against believers. It is almost guaranteed to happen. I will say it again: Corrie Ten Boom was not scriptural in her remarks.

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Just now, Da Puppers said:

Absolutely not.   The little horn comes to power as a leader among the 10 horn kingdom as found there and in Daniel 2 as the 10 toes.   Daniel 2:44 tells us that the kingdom of God will be set up in the days of these kings: 

*[[Dan 2:44]] KJV* And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

And then Daniel 8 proceeds to tell us about these 2 kings that head up this 4th kingdom,  telling us numerous times that it concerns the time of the end,  in the last indignation, and when the transgressed are come to the full.   People can't grasp it because Daniel 8 tells about the rise of the little horn last from one of the 4 kingdoms that arise at the death of Alexander.   Daniel 8 starts by telling us of this one who comes AFTER the little horn,  the ram with two horns,  the kingdom of media Persia.   This is the same as the beast from the earth that arises at the time of the death of the head of the beast from the sea.   

Blessings

The PuP 

Dan. 8's "little horn" is Antiochus. It is NOT the little horn of Dan. 7. He (Antiochus) was a TYPE of the little horn of Dan. 7 and the Beast of Rev. 13.

The Little Horn  (Amplified Bible)

Out of one of them (Antiochus IV Epiphanes) came forth a rather small horn [but one of irreverent presumption and profane pride] which grew exceedingly powerful toward the south, toward the east, and toward the Beautiful Land (Israel). 10 And [in my vision] this [d]horn grew up to the host of heaven, and caused some of the host and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled on them. 11 Indeed, it magnified itself to be equal with the [e]Commander of the host [of heaven]; and it took away from Him the daily sacrifice (burnt offering), and the place of His sanctuary was thrown down (profaned).

You are not reading Dan. 8 very well. The "end" spoken of is the end of THEIR kingdom, meaning the end of the Grecian kingdom - in particular, near the end of the Seleucus kingdom. But THEIR being plural, the end of the four divisions of the Grecian kingdoms. You are simply mistaken. Daniel 8 has nothing to do with our future except as a TYPE.

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21 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Probably ... ... ... 

not.

 

Search for the (very major) difference between (in Scripture)  the bride of Christ,  and the body of Christ.   Few , apparently, find out or know.

Probably not what? Post tribbers can't get to the marriage? The scripture is clear: Paul said the rapture will be for those "in Christ." This means REAL born again Christians, not Christians in name only. 

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28 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

What she said is simply not truth. Why is that so difficult to grasp? She disagreed with Paul in 1 Thes. 5.

She disagreed with John when He showed us the great crowd, too large to number, in heaven before "the trib" begins.

I am not saying the church will not go through some hard times: it may. But those hard times will NOT be God's wrath as in the 70th week.

Don't worry about God's Wrath as in the 70th week.

Be more concerned about bearing false witness against a known and proven and righteous woman --

i.e. your ideas were told to you by someone bearing false witness not only about Corrie, but also about Yahweh's Word...

.  (oh,  I think I posted that already. Here it is again - someone bore false witness and you accepted it.).

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12 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Probably not what?

Search for the (very major) difference between (in Scripture)  the bride of Christ,  and the body of Christ.   Few , apparently, find out or know. 

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10 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Does Paul mention the Day of the Lord, just 3 verses past his classic rapture verse of 1 Thes. 4:17?

Does Paul tell us that two groups of people get two different results: that those in Christ get "salvation" (raptured) while those living in darkness get "sudden destruction?"

Does Paul then tell us God will set no appointments for us with His wrath - hinting very strongly that the "sudden destruction" is the start of God's wrath and probably the start of the Day of the Lord? 

Is belief that God sets no appointments with His wrath "twisting?"  Or is that just plain truth written by Paul?  

Is 1 Thes. chapter 5 a footnote? 

I will freely admit that believing the rapture will come before wrath is "feel good." We are to comfort one another with this thought! 

Is the scriptural word "comfort" so far removed from "feel good" that you have to make fun of it?

Finally, why is it illogical to you that God would NOT WISH His own children to suffer from His wrath? He God angry with US - His children - or is He angry with the world that will not repent?

If one conflates 'wrath' with the 70th week then you would be correct. This is an example of the doctrine twisting the truth.

The wrath of God is a short time period that occurs after great tribulation, which is a time period of a duration of less than 3.5 years in the 2nd half of of the 70th week. 

As Jesus said;

"So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination of desolation,’as described by the prophet Daniel (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let no one on the housetop come down to retrieve anything from his house. And let no one in the field return for his cloak.

How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened."

It's very clear great tribulation does not begin till after the A of D, and only after this does Jesus return;

"Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’b

30 At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.31 And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

This is the one and only gathering in the whole of scripture and it occurs after great tribulation. And it's the same gathering of which Paul spoke in 1 and 2 Thess. The comfort to which you refer is being saved from wrath and hence, eternal death, not saved from the last 7 years of downfall of the government of man.

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