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Why Pretrib Logic Fails


JoeCanada

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5 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

iamlamad,

"This was the very first time in human history that the Holy Spirit could enter the human spirit to dwell"

I must disagree.

David wrote in Psalm 51....

"Do not cast me away from your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me"

 

In the Old Testament, they were anointed by the Holy Spirit - sometimes called "filled with the Holy Spirit." This was for the Kings and Prophets only, or occasionally when God needed a job done. In the New Testament we see that this is called the Holy Spirit UPON....that is upon the flesh. This is juxtaposed with the Holy Spirit WITHIN as in the human spirit. They are two different operations of the Holy Spirit. The Holy spirit within, as in sealed by the Holy Spirit, as in the two becoming one, was ONLY available after Jesus died and rose again. 

Therefore I disagree with you here. I think you are mistaken. 

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He was always worthy. He is our creator. However, the manifestation of salvation in its fullness happened at a point in time in our perspective. Human beings who believe always have been looking forward or looking backward (for lack of a better word) to the complete work of the cross and resurrection. It was always complete in the mind of God. It is progressive revelation in the mind of man. Blessings 

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Oh plus we have the hope of glory and we are not appointed to wrath. It saddens me so many brethren seem to be excited at the prospect of tribulation as if they are immune to human failings. I trust my Savior so much that I KNOW I will be raptured. 

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15 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

 What does Jesus being on earth at that time have anything to do with what is being discussed? 

Blessings

The PuP 

It has everything to do with it. But I doubt if you will ever see it in chapters 4 & 5. It is there alright - but preconceived glasses prevent many from seeing it.

John NOT seeing Jesus at the right hand of the Father is the first clue.

NO man found worthy to take the book is the second clue.

Then later someone IS found worthy - is the third clue.

Finally, Jesus suddenly appearing in the throne room as a lamb having just been slain - is the forth clue.

Jesus was NOT seen at the right hand of the Father because He is on the earth or under the earth at that moment in time.

No man was found worthy because at the time of that search Jesus had not yet risen from the dead.

Finally a man WAS found worthy because TIME HAD PASSED. It was Jesus who was found worthy, after He had risen from the dead. 

Then Jesus ascending and entering the throne room - and sending the Holy Spirit down - proves the timing. He has now risen from the dead and ascended.

This scenario explains all the clues to a "T."  

If you don't believe this, you have to come up with a better scenario that explains all the clues.

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The first search was made before Jesus was born, ( no man was found worthy) that's why Jesus came, to be the Redeemer for man kind.

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4 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

The first search was made before Jesus was born, ( no man was found worthy) that's why Jesus came, to be the Redeemer for man kind.

Greetings bro,

question....where was Jesus then?  Are you saying he was in Mary’s womb?  He wasn’t at the throne so where was he? 

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He wasn't a man at that time. 

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8 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

Awnswer one simple question.   True or false. 

Right now Jesus is unworthy to open any seal. 

Blessings

The PuP 

False; Jesus has already opened 5 seals!

I wonder if you ever saw the old movie of the time machine? He put the small model on the table and set the controls for the next day. The time machine vanished. Those watching asked him where it went. He said it went nowhere - it was still there - just there in tomorrow.  TIME, we could say, changes everything except God - but in this cast time actually changed the SON of God. He was NOT found worthy in the first search, because He had not yet risen from the dead. But in a subsequent search, He WAS found worthy, proving He had just risen from the dead.

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45 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

The first search was made before Jesus was born, ( no man was found worthy) that's why Jesus came, to be the Redeemer for man kind.

No, I don't think going that far back is necessary; "no man was found worthy" simply because He had not yet risen from the dead. 

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21 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

No, I don't think going that far back is necessary; "no man was found worthy" simply because He had not yet risen from the dead. 

Would it make a difference if I told Jesus told me so.

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