Jump to content
IGNORED

ASSUMPTIONS IN RADIODATING.


KiwiChristian

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  46
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  944
  • Content Per Day:  0.22
  • Reputation:   170
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  05/05/2012
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/20/1980

1 minute ago, Still Alive said:

Now, until God said, "let there be light", we have no clue how much time transpired.

the whole thing took God 7 days.

Your Joey education story doesn't have a 7 days timespan for all the things that have happened.

3 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

And the latter is more likely, just as our discovery that we live on a globe is more likely. 

no, these two can't be compared with each other. The seven day time span was used to make us know when we should rest (on the seventh day). That was the same 7th day that God took a rest (Exodus 20:11). So the seven days time span are likely to have been understood that way by former people. The seven days belong to our daily lives now.

7 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

any more than we can be "sure" the rooster crowed once. Or was it twice?

we can be sure of this, too. You aren't sure.

8 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

Genesis fits into their culture accordingly. It doesn't in any way, shape or form mean that the earth was created in six days

of course it does. If God would have created the earth in say 8 days, than people would have understood that, too. As I said. We're going round in circles. Please let's avoid that, Still Alive. You have (almost) unlimited time, I don't. Please don't tease me with your time resources.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

They wrote within the constraints of their personal understanding and life experiences.

As I said, they were no idiots. They would have understood larger time spans, as well. This is repeating things we have discussed again.

Please, I won't answer the rest, since you keep exploding your issues, and I don't have time. Maybe in a couple of days I'll get back on the rest that you wrote...

  • Thumbs Up 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  13
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,015
  • Content Per Day:  1.35
  • Reputation:   1,220
  • Days Won:  3
  • Joined:  02/05/2018
  • Status:  Offline

5 minutes ago, thomas t said:

Please, I won't answer the rest, since you keep exploding your issues, and I don't have time. Maybe in a couple of days I'll get back on the rest that you wrote...

Works for me. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  6
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  347
  • Content Per Day:  0.08
  • Reputation:   370
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  08/20/2012
  • Status:  Offline

 For the record, @Still Alive is not teaching some fringy secular idea. I first learned of this in the Watchman Nee study Bible. No science or carbon dating to it. Watchman Nee got there purely on doctrinal grounds.  I literally believe creation took seven days, but the countdown didn’t start until after there was such a thing as a day.  it answers a lot of theological questions about why this whole plan of salvation thing got started.  we don’t need to have a big discussion of it here, but I’m not sure why Thomas is so viscerally against it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  13
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,015
  • Content Per Day:  1.35
  • Reputation:   1,220
  • Days Won:  3
  • Joined:  02/05/2018
  • Status:  Offline

12 minutes ago, pg4Him said:

 For the record, @Still Alive is not teaching some fringy secular idea. I first learned of this in the Watchman Nee study Bible. No science or carbon dating to it. Watchman Nee got there purely on doctrinal grounds.  I literally believe creation took seven days, but the countdown didn’t start until after there was such a thing as a day.  it answers a lot of theological questions about why this whole plan of salvation thing got started.  we don’t need to have a big discussion of it here, but I’m not sure why Thomas is so viscerally against it.

You again summed up my take as well. I have to admit that we all bring our own biases to a debate like this. And one of my biases, from personal experience, is that the more "sure" someone is of their position on "controversial" doctrines, the less seriously I tend to take their position. 

I left a small church when I moved to Kentucky because I did not want to cause strife in the church by simply asking reasonable questions. I was trying to discuss my CI beliefs with an older member (deacon) of a small church. He vehemently supported ECT, yet came at it from a child's perspective (i.e. he was "positive" he was right but could not counter any of my points). His face got so red that I was concerned for his health - and he started yelling. I stopped the argument and, shortly after that, found a "much less dogmatic" church.

There is no need to get into this stuff in that way and we are actually admonished  - repeatedly - by the bible to not get into useless arguments.

  • Loved it! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  46
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  944
  • Content Per Day:  0.22
  • Reputation:   170
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  05/05/2012
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/20/1980

2 hours ago, pg4Him said:

I’m not sure why Thomas is so viscerally against it.

Hi PG,

oh let me explain.

If you don't believe it was 7 days than you venture into arbitrary Bible interpretation (my opinion).

And those who know how to use the most eloquent rhetorics... they are to convince the most? I don't want to trust rhetorically wise people with making decisions concerning Bible interpretation.

Even if Mr. Watchman Nee can talk wisely, doesn't mean that he is to be trusted? 

Bible says God created the whole thing, including heaven and earth, in 7 days. Exodus 20:11: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day.

 

Do you have a partner? When he tells you "I was  at work for seven hours today" - and you answer him "yes, you visited your affair for 7 weeks - this is what you are telling me !"... do you think that your partnership will last?

Thomas

@Still Alive thanks for not bringing up further points at me. So I can go to bed early!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  3
  • Topic Count:  6
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  347
  • Content Per Day:  0.08
  • Reputation:   370
  • Days Won:  2
  • Joined:  08/20/2012
  • Status:  Offline

10 minutes ago, thomas t said:

Hi PG,

oh let me explain.

If you don't believe it was 7 days than you venture into arbitrary Bible interpretation (my opinion).

And those who know how to use the most eloquent rhetorics... they are to convince the most? I don't want to trust rhetorically wise people with making decisions concerning Bible interpretation.

Even if Mr. Watchman Nee can talk wisely, doesn't mean that he is to be trusted? 

Bible says God created the whole thing, including heaven and earth, in 7 days. Exodus 20:11: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day.

 

Do you have a partner? When he tells you "I was  at work for seven hours today" - and you answer him "yes, you visited your affair for 7 weeks - this is what you are telling me !"... do you think that your partnership will last?

Thomas

@Still Alive thanks for not bringing up further points at me. So I can go to bed early!

 

 Watchman Nee was an eloquent talker who used persuasive words? Are you sure you know who Watchman Nee was? I’m not saying to take his word for it, but you should at least be willing to look into what he said and let him make his case. It’s not worth an argument, so I won’t keep replying to this, but I’m a little disappointed to see someone speak so dismissively on one of the great modern martyrs.  but I suppose to each his own. Have a nice night. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  11
  • Topic Count:  320
  • Topics Per Day:  0.04
  • Content Count:  6,829
  • Content Per Day:  0.85
  • Reputation:   3,570
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  02/16/2002
  • Status:  Offline

WHEN WAS "IN THE BEGINNING? Was it Gen. 1:1, or John 1:1-3. ? God's Word says, "In the beginning God created, . . ." it does not say, 6,000 years God created.

God is a creator and has been creating throughout eternity past and He will continue creating into eternity future. The Earth was inhabited long before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer until, "Iniquity was found in him.

Lucifer was a fallen angel when he was allowed by God to enter Eden to tempt Adam to see if Adam would remain faithful.

Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth before Adam and Eve were created. It was the Pre-Adamite world.

Scripture shows that originally, God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).
Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before "Iniquity was found in him.

Before Adam Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth.

God is taking about Lucifer in these Scriptures. He was a perfect created angelic arc angel; "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezek. 28:13-15).

Lucifer wanted to control the universe and knock God off His throne. He over a long period of time convinced one third of God's angels to rebell with him and they rebelled against God and His universal rule, and invaded heaven to try and de-throne God Himself. (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance. In Isa. 14:12-14 we have statements which cannot possibly of an earthly King. The passage is universally refering to the fall of Satan. We can quote it and note the facts.

"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which dist weaken the nations! For thou art hast said in thine heart, I WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN, I WILL EXALT MY THRONE above the stars of God: I WILL sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I WILL ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE like the most High," Now note the following facts this passage proves of Satan:

1. That his name is Lucifer.

2. That he was a son of the morning, and therefore, no earthly man.

3. That he fell from Heaven. This could never be spoken of a man. Satan is the only person in all Scripture who is spoken of as falling from Heaven (Luke 10:18).

4. That he was cut down to the ground in his fall.

5. That he weakened the nations on Earth.

6. That he was exalted in his heart.

7. That he invaded Heaven where God rules.

8. That he was a KING, for he had a Throne and SUBJECTS over whom he ruled.

9. That he wanted to exalt his kingdom above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven itself to dethrone God.

10. That he wanted to be worshiped in the congregation of God (Ps. 72:2; 82:1; Isa. 6:1).

11. That he led a rebellion against God but was defeated.

12. That his kingdom was on Earth, or he never could have tried to ascend above the clouds, stars, and into Heaven. When a kingdom is located under the clouds it has to be on the Earth.

13. That the ground, clouds, stars, and Heaven were already created.

14. That it had to be before Adam, for this was not the position of Lucifer when he was in Adam's Eden. Adam had dominion at that time. Lucifer had no kingdom on the Earth at the time of Adam and he has not had one since in the sense of a visible personal rule on Earth. He has only ruled through others since Adam's day; so this must refer to a time before Adam.

15. That he was not in Heaven when he rebelled, else he could not have desired to ascend into Heaven. He was under the stars, or he could not have desired to be exalted above the stars. He was under the clouds, or he could not have desired to ascend above them.

16. That God's throne is located in the north part of the universe (Psalms 75:6-7). Thus, this passage proves the location of Satan's original kingdom and the time of his fall. It was located on Earth, and his fall was before Adam, for he was al;reday a fallen creature when he entered Adam' Eden.

In Coll. 1:15-18 we read of Christ creating thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers in Heaven and on Earth. They were located somewhere in the heavens and on the Earth. Lucifer was given a kingdom here on Earth, as proved by the passages cited above. His own subjects were earthly creatures of various kinds which were destroyed when the flood of Gen. 1:2 came upon the Earth. God created the Earth to be inhabited by earthly creatures (Isa. 45:18). They are called "nations" in the above passages. The demons who are now Satans emissaries could well be the spirits of the pre-Adamites. At any rate they are not part of the creation at the time of Adam. Thus Isaiah teaches the the Earth was inhabited before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer, whos' kingdom was overthrown when he rebelled.

There is so, so much more found in Scripture regarding this doctrin, many dozens of Scriptures support this. If this is false teaching, it amuses me that no one comes up with nothing more than Noah's flood, which occured much later, did not compleatly destroy the Earth, shake mountains, turn them upside down, turned off the stars and the sun so that there was no light. God had already created the Heavens, they were in existence as well as the Earth only their lights were withheld from shining on the Earth thus causing darkness Gen. 1:2. There was no darkness during Noah's flood? There were men and animals on the earth before Noah's flood, and Noah and his family and the animals survived the flood and were on the Eart after it?

That the Earth ONLY was (became) without form and void (Hebrew tohu vabobu, litterally wast and ruin or desolate and empty), as in Gen. 1:2. That there were mountains of Earth that were shaken and turned upside down by an earthquake so severe, which no doubt caused the remains of animals to be deposited in the very depths of the Earth beneath many layers of solid rock, such as are now been found. Noah's flood never buried animals hundreds of meters beneath solid rock.

Many other scriptures apart from those above can be presented to prove the doctrin of a pre-Adamite world.

To try and put this in a nutshell, God created the heavens first, then the Earth, all in the beginning or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). He caused the heavens and the Earth to be inhabited and gave Lucifer control of the Earth-kingdom, don't believe me, read, (Coll. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Lucifer ruled the earth for God for an unknown period before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and dethrone God. Not my idea, read (Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). He was defeated and his kingdom on Earth was destroyed by a flood and the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).

The Earth was turned upside down, a process which caused all the present formations of the Earth. The flood remained on the Earth for an unknown period of time, and then God in six days restored the Earth to a habitable state and made Adam and Eve and his creation to carry out the original plan of God concerning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer, now called Satan, and the spirit rebels caused man to fall, and they regained dominion of the earth through Adam's submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). They have been in control ever since and will be in control untill the second coming of Christ, who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium and make a New Heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth all righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5). Why does science show the earth to be many millions of years old and the Bible "(allegedly)" says it is only six thousand years old? So, as with everything missunderstood in Scripture men call what they do not understand a theory. Hence, the gap theory, or even a herecy. But there was a gap and its no theory. Scripture shows there was a creation "in the beginning" and then a re-creation.

If we take the time to carefully read all the Scriptures regarding this doctrin and not just skim over them retaining old knowledge in the mind, and the READ these below, which backs up what is said, and see for yourselves

You see, God spoke, and as soon as the materials were made, God created and formed with His hands the heavens, with all its light and darkness first, then the Earth, all in the beginning, or in the dateless past (Gen. 1:1; Job 38:4-7). God created the heavens and the earth to be inhabited and He gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Col. 1:15-18; Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14). Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before he rebelled and invaded heaven to try and de-throne (Ezek 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).

Naturally Lucifer was defeated, and his kingdom on the earth was totally destroyed by a flood and by the fierce anger of God (Gen. 1;2; Jer. 4:23-26; Ps. 104:5-9; 2 Pet. 3:5-6), hence the severe geological contortions of the earth's crust, vast deposits of bones in various places world wide, fossiles thousands or millions of years old etc. The earth was turned upside down in this process, ever wondered why the moon is poc marked by countless craters, and yet we never see anything plowing into it these days causing such destruction. What about the other dead planets in our immediate solar system? The flood God caused to cover the earth remained for an unknown period of time, and then God, in six days restored the earth to a habitable state and made Adam and his creation to carry out the original plan of God conserning the Earth (Gen. 1:3-2:25).

Lucifer and his spirit rebels caused man to fall and by this regained dominion of the earth through Adams submission (2 Cor. 11:3; Eph. 2:1-3; 6:10-18; Rom. 5:12-21). Lucifer has been in control ever since and he will remain in control untill the second coming of Jesus Christ who will put down all rebellion in the Millennium. God will then finally make a New heavens and a New Earth wherein dwelleth righteousness forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-22:5).

This doctrin is too simple for most men to understand, so they reject it.

Now, 2 Peter 3:5-7 expresses this clearly in plain human language, "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing (emerging) out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world THAT THEN WAS, being overflowed with water, PERISHED:
But the heavens and the Earth, WHICH ARE NOW, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is where people become confused and say the world "that then was," was the world before Noah's flood, but this cannot be because:

If the world that THAT THEN WAS" is that between Adam and the flood of Noah, then God created The heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW" since the flood of Noah. Noah and his family lived prior to his flood and after it. The world "THAT THEN WAS PERISHED" and everything in it also perished. What change could Noah's flood make to the heavens? None, for floods on Earth can never cover the heavens. The earth, vegetation, the heavens, all remained the same after Noah's flood.

Peter, in (2 Peter 3:3-7) taught that scoffers were totally ignorant of the flood that destroyed the social system and the earth "that then was" (lucifers flood). These scoffers all knew of Noah's flood and still know today. This proves that the truth of the flood that destroyed the original creation was hidden from them, while they knew about Noah's flood.

What was it that the scoffers were ignorant of unless it was the destruction of the social system before Adam?

This is the doctrin of which men are still ignorant of, which they call "the gap theory." Peter said that the scoffers were willingly ignorant of this truth showing that it is a clear doctrin of Scripture if men would stop being ignorant of it. There are many Scriptures that make this doctrin clear; so "If any man wants to be ignorant, let him be ignorant," as Paul expressed in (1 Cor. 14:38).

Peter said these scoffers of the last days, the days we are in now, since Noah, would be ignorant of the fact that the heavens were of old; that the social system ruled by Lucifer on the old Earth perished by water; that the heavens and the Earth since the six days of restoration are kept in store to be purified again- the next time by fire; that the Lord is not slack concerning His promises of final restoration of the earth to its third perfect state; and that God was longsuffering to all men, not willing that any should perish, but all come to repentance.

 

Scriptural proof there were two floods on this earth, Lucifers flood which I will post as . 'L,F.'

And Noahs flood which I will post as . 'N.F.'

L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Earth not made waste (Gen. 8:11-12, 22 ; Heb. 11:7 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. Earth made empty (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23).
N.F. Earth not made empty (Gen. 6:18-22 ; 8:16).

L.F. Earth made totally dark (Gen. 1:2-5 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Not made totally dark (Gen. 8:6-22)

L.F. No light from heaven (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Light from heaven (Gen. 8:6-22).

L.F. No day and night (Gen. 1:2-5).
N.F. Day and night (Gen. 8:1-22).

L.F. All vegetation destroyed Gen. 1:2 ; 2:5-6 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Vegetation not destroyed (Gen. 8:11, 21 ; 9:3, 20).

L.F. No continued abating of the waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Continued abating of the waters from the earth by evaporation (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. Waters taken off the earth in one day (Gen. 1:10).
N.F. Months of waters abating off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. God supernaturally takes waters off the earth (Gen. 1:6-12).
N.F. Natural work of evaporation of the waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. No rebuke or miraculous work in fled away (Gen. 1:6-12 ; Ps. 104:7).
N.F. No rebuke or miraculous work is taking waters off the earth (Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. The waters on earth in Gen. 1:2, hasted away when rebuked (Gen. 1:6-2 ; Ps. 104:9).
N.F. The bounds already eternally set for waters in Gen. 8:1-14).

L.F. All fish were totally destroyed in flood of Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. No fish were destroyed of created again after Noah's flood (Gen. 1:20-23 ; 6:18-22).

L.F. No Fowls left on the earth after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26).
N.F. Fowls were left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:7-17).

L.F. No animals left after (Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Some of all animals kept alive (Gen. 6:20 ; 8:17 ; 9:2-4, 10-16).

L.F. No man left on earth in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. Eight men and women left after Noah's flood (Gen. 6:18 ; 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No social system left at all in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. A social system left after Noah's flood (Gen. 8:15-22 ; 9:1-16 ; 1 Pet. 3:20).

L.F. No ark made to save men in Gen. 1:2 ; Jer. 4:23-26 ; 2 Pet. 3:5-6).
N.F. An ark made to save men and animals alive (Gen. 6:8-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16 ; Heb. 11:7).

L.F. Cause: fall of Lucifer, now Satan (Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26; Ezek. 28:11-17 ; Luke 10:18).
N.F. Cause: wickedness of men (Gen. 6:5-13) ; and fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4; Jude 6-7 ; 2 Pet. 2:4).

L.F. Result: became necessary to make new life on earth (Gen. 1:3-2 : 25 ; Isa. 45:18 ; Eph. 3:11).
N.F. Results: no new creation made, for all men and animals were not destroyed (Gen. 6:18-8 : 22 ; 9:1-16).

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Senior Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  46
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  944
  • Content Per Day:  0.22
  • Reputation:   170
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  05/05/2012
  • Status:  Offline
  • Birthday:  04/20/1980

11 hours ago, HAZARD said:

WHEN WAS "IN THE BEGINNING? Was it Gen. 1:1, or John 1:1-3. ? God's Word says, "In the beginning God created, . . ." it does not say, 6,000 years God created.

God is a creator and has been creating throughout eternity past and He will continue creating into eternity future. The Earth was inhabited long before Adam and was ruled by Lucifer until, "Iniquity was found in him.

Lucifer was a fallen angel when he was allowed by God to enter Eden to tempt Adam to see if Adam would remain faithful.

Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth before Adam and Eve were created. It was the Pre-Adamite world.

Scripture shows that originally, God gave Lucifer control of the Earth kingdom (Rev. 12:12; Ezek. 28:11-18; Isa. 14:12-14).
Lucifer obeyed God and ruled for an unknown time before "Iniquity was found in him.

Before Adam Lucifer was the ruler of the Earth.

Hi Hazard,

oh no, it's the "Gap Theory". You don't have anything to back your allegation of pre-Adamite life up.

Rev 12:12 is in the future. It is at a time when the stars would have fallen down on earth, already. This was Rev 6.

Ezek. 28:11-18? "You were in Eden, the garden of God;" (verse 13a) sounds like the Garden ! ... just where Adam was in, too.

Isa. 14:12-14? How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! verse 12. There is nothing that indicates pre-Adamite life. This could very well have happened when Adam was there, too - maybe this happened when he ate the fruit.

So your first verse couldn't back up your theory, so I assume that the rest of it can't be supported by scripture, either. I don't have the time to go through all of it. Three verses that didn't provide any back up of what you say... is enough. Ok?

But let me discuss your purported "Lucifer's Flood".

There's no evidence to back this other flood up. Let me show that your first three arguments don't back up anything. If your first three arguments don't back up a "Lucifer's Flood", then it's likely to assume the rest of it won't back up anything either.

1. "L.F. Earth made waste (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:5-6)." you say. There is nothing in the text of Gen 1:2 that said "made" waste. This is your speculation. It says the earth was waste. Right from the start? Why not.

Jeremiah 4 is about Jerusalem. 2 Pet. 3:5-6 can very well describe Noah's flood.

Same applies to your arguments 2 and 3.

 

So let me conclude: your first arguments were nothing but unsupported allegation, since the Genesis passages didn't support a view that holds that the earth became dark/empty/waste after having been different from dark/empty/waste some time before.

I noted that the brothers and sisters couldn't refute you here, that's at least how I read the thread. That was sad to read.

Regards,

Thomas

 

 

 

Edited by thomas t
grammar edit
  • Thumbs Up 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  4
  • Topic Count:  13
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  3,015
  • Content Per Day:  1.35
  • Reputation:   1,220
  • Days Won:  3
  • Joined:  02/05/2018
  • Status:  Offline

16 hours ago, thomas t said:

 

@Still Alive thanks for not bringing up further points at me. So I can go to bed early!

 

Heh. These discussions should be friendly and reach some sort of "logical conclusion". I don't feel the need to brow beat people ad-nausium just because I may disagree with them on some biblical interpretation point. We're all brothers in the lord. :)

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  69
  • Topics Per Day:  0.03
  • Content Count:  1,625
  • Content Per Day:  0.81
  • Reputation:   2,033
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  09/10/2018
  • Status:  Offline

19 hours ago, pg4Him said:

 it answers a lot of theological questions about why this whole plan of salvation thing got started.  we don’t need to have a big discussion of it here, but I’m not sure why Thomas is so viscerally against it.

Not just @thomas t, but me and many others as well!  

I'd rather take the Bible literately and wonder upon theological questions, than force ideas into the Bible to answer theological questions.

I know of Watchman Nee, and I know of other great men like him.  But whoever he was doesn't validate all of his theories and claims are true.  You seem to venerate Watchman a little too much but...

16 hours ago, pg4Him said:

I suppose to each his own.

On the ol' Gap theory nonsense - The "pre-adamic world" is an old theory and one without any substantial evidence.  Some will say "yeah but" and "there is here", but I've heard  the arguments put forward to support it before, and they're laughable.  The mystic interpretation I learned from Rabbis on this matter seemed to be a real stretch and highly imaginative at best.  It's basically nonsense.  An old theory that is popular with modern man as they attempt to harmonise their misunderstandings and incorrect calculations of the Earth's age with the Bible.   

It's equal parts humorous and sad to hear people try to present it as a worthy theory!  I'm actually surprised there are so many still behind it.  Very strange.

I, personally, suspect the theory is of a dark origin, rather than men alone.   More often than not, satan is depicted as having a higher standing before man, and plants a deceptive seed on Yahweh's dealings.   In a lot of satanic cults, they have "hidden knowledge" revealed to you the higher you ascend in rank - this is also mirrored here with this theory with "Oh, by the way, what Yahweh didn't tell you was..." Along with this,  the theory goes to great lengths to twist scripture's context (much like satan did before the Lord Jesus in the wilderness).

Still, for those who want to chew the idea over, fill your boots - I won't be counted with you.  But understand that you aren't in a strong enough position - either biblically, archaeologically or scientifically - to imply or argue with other believers that Genesis account is not literal, or that is hides such a dramatic, important history.  Isn't doing so just remaining prideful of the theories and thoughts of mere men?

Edited by Tzephanyahu
  • Oy Vey! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...