ASSUMPTIONS IN RADIODATING.

[thomas t]

Hi Hazard,

ok let's go into detail now:

17 hours ago, HAZARD said:

In these verses we have the whole span of the creative ages taking in all the original creation of the heavens and the Earth and all things therein to the six days of restoration of the Earth to a habitable state.

So let's compare it to Bible, though:

"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God restored created and made "

just a correction.

17 hours ago, HAZARD said:

The fact that Moses by inspiration said that God told Adam, to multiply and replenish the Earth proves that there was a social system on the Earth before Adam,

replenish? According to Strong's dictionary,It's

Quote

male'
maw-lay'
or malae (Esth. 7:5) {maw-law'}; a primitive root, to fill or (intransitively) be full of, in a wide application (literally and figuratively): [...]

 

... "fill", you can fiull an empty glass, though.

There is absolutely no problem if you translate "fill" in Gen 9:1 and Isa 2:6, as well. As some other occasions of that word that you metioned.

17 hours ago, HAZARD said:

and note the results

yes I did, there was no problem (see above).

17 hours ago, HAZARD said:

How long the Earth was a waste and a ruin or desolate and empty since its original habitation is not known.

ok, but since the whole procedure lasted 6 days, it could not be longer than that.

17 hours ago, HAZARD said:

It is definitely stated in Isa. 45:18 that God did not create the Earth tohu (vain, or desolate)

He did not create the earth in vain, says that verse, Hazard.

Thomas

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by thomas t
Highlighted the quote from Stong's Dictionary

[HAZARD]

4 hours ago, thomas t said:

Hi Hazard,

ok let's go into detail now:

So let's compare it to Bible, though:

"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God restored created and made "

just a correction.

replenish? According to Strong's dictionary,It's

... "fill", you can fiull an empty glass, though.

There is absolutely no problem if you translate "fill" in Gen 9:1 and Isa 2:6, as well. As some other occasions of that word that you metioned.

yes I did, there was no problem (see above).

ok, but since the whole procedure lasted 6 days, it could not be longer than that.

He did not create the earth in vain, says that verse, Hazard.

Thomas

 

Rubbish!

[Still Alive]

Regarding God creating, sometimes he creates something from something else (adam from dust, eve from adam, etc.) and sometimes he creates from "nothing". Different words are used in the bible. And an important consideration is that the old testament explanation of God creating is discussing in theological, not scientific terms. We are children holding up a wooden toy saying, "Grandpa made this yesterday". An archaeologist digging up the toy a thousand years from now will be in error if he tries to figure out how grandpa created the DNA in the wood, and how long it took the tree to grow. i.e. we need to limit our focus to what the bible says, not what we think it means from a 21st century scientific perspective. The bible is not a science book and never claims to be.

 

And don't kid yourself. The writers of both the old and new testament knew little about creation from a scientific perspective, especially the old testament. And everything they write is from THEIR perspective, not God's. It was necessary. Otherwise they would have been talking over the heads of their contemporaneous readers - and exposing what God chose not to expose. 

i.e. the age of the earth is a concern of scientists, but not theologians. Usually the Bible is either silent on the details, or the writer is giving a certain perspective from raw ignorance, and we are attempting to apply what we know to our interpretation of what the writer said. And that doesn't work.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Still Alive

[ARGOSY]

23 hours ago, thomas t said:

Hi Hazard,

ok let's go into detail now:

So let's compare it to Bible, though:

"And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God restored created and made "

just a correction.

replenish? According to Strong's dictionary,It's

... "fill", you can fiull an empty glass, though.

There is absolutely no problem if you translate "fill" in Gen 9:1 and Isa 2:6, as well. As some other occasions of that word that you metioned.

yes I did, there was no problem (see above).

ok, but since the whole procedure lasted 6 days, it could not be longer than that.

He did not create the earth in vain, says that verse, Hazard.

Thomas

 

I'm not following where in Genesis it talks about the earth and the universe? They didn't even have a word for planet earth then, and heavens meant the sky. 

Genesis 1 is about the dry ground appearing from under the ocean (land) , and the waters above the ocean lifting to create visibility (sky). 

Now that the formless watery earth had light, land, and breathing space, God could make life. 

The Bible does not date the planet earth, they didn't even have a word for that concept. 

[thomas t]

On 8/2/2019 at 11:25 PM, HAZARD said:

Rubbish!

Hazard, can you adopt a different tone please?

---

Hi Argosy,

19 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

I'm not following where in Genesis it talks about the earth and the universe?

Even the stars were made during a day in a 6 day creation period. So if you say, God spoke about the sun in Genesis 1 and also the stars in Genesis 1 but not the earth, it doesn't make sense, in my opinion.

Here's Strongs dictionary for erets ("the earth" as used in Genesis 1:1)

'erets
eh'-rets


from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land):
 

----

Hi Still Alive,

20 hours ago, Still Alive said:

Otherwise they would have been talking over the heads of their contemporaneous readers - and exposing what God chose not to expose. 

that's a good thought, I think.

 

But different ages were known.

Moreover, Abraham was told that his sons would be as numerous as the sand at the seashore - you see, they understood great numbers.  Even back then.

And God would have had a chance to tell them that the earth is very old, if it were so. "the years are as numerous as the sand of the seashore!" Why not?

20 hours ago, Still Alive said:

the age of the earth is a concern of scientists, but not theologians.

I hear that so often. But when God makes it a topic it is a topic. You aren't interested in what the Bible tells about the time span from the beginning till now. Well, that's true. Other theologians are, in contrast. You aren't representative of every theologian in the world .

Regards,

Thomas

 

[ARGOSY]

44 minutes ago, thomas t said:

Hi Argosy,

Even the stars were made during a day in a 6 day creation period. So if you say, God spoke about the sun in Genesis 1 and also the stars in Genesis 1 but not the earth, it doesn't make sense, in my opinion.

Here's Strongs dictionary for erets ("the earth" as used in Genesis 1:1)

'erets
eh'-rets

from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land):

The word earth means soil/ground. "Put the earth in the pot." The KJV and the Strong's dictionary were written before the word earth was commonly used to refer to our entire planet. 

It means dry ground, I prefer the bibles own meaning: God called the dry ground “erets,” and the gathered waters he called “seas.”

 

Your view has 2 incorrect  meanings to the word erets

1) erets in existence in v2 before the planet was even created

2)planet earth

 

Both usages completely contradict the context of Genesis 1 where the spirit of God is above the oceans, and the land is still under water before the first day. The creation story starts off with a dark, watery environment becoming habitable, and dry ground emerging. 

Regarding the sun and stars   they simply became visible from the perspective of the surface of the water.

 

1) My usage of the Hebrew word ASAH (make, do, show, perform) is way more accurate than your usage of the Hebrew word ERETS. 

2) My view is of visibility increasing as the thick ocean mists thin out, creating light /day/visibility/visible sky/visible stars and sun. This makes a lot more sense than weird views of 24 hour days before the sun is made. Of water canopies in the universe and whatever else YECs believe to try make sense of the text. 

 

[Still Alive]

4 hours ago, thomas t said:

And God would have had a chance to tell them that the earth is very old, if it were so. "the years are as numerous as the sand of the seashore!" Why not?

An equally relevant question: Why?

I'll ask Him after I die.

[Still Alive]

4 hours ago, thomas t said:

I hear that so often. But when God makes it a topic it is a topic. You aren't interested in what the Bible tells about the time span from the beginning till now. Well, that's true. Other theologians are, in contrast. You aren't representative of every theologian in the world .

Regards,

Thomas

 

Actually, I am. I also seem to be the one most concerned with the answer to this question: The beginning of what? When your parents describe your life "from the beginning", they do not include their life before you were born, or the events of the world for thousands of years before you were born. Your story starts at your birth. It could also start when they found out they were pregnant and began preparing the nursery. But it is narcissistic for mankind to just assume that all of creation began when our ages on this current surface of the earth was prepared as our nursery and eventual home. 

In reality, we simply don't know. And about so many things in the bible regarding things we have not experienced nor has mankind, the wisest answer is, "we don't know." Sure, we know what is written, but not much has been written. What people tend to hang their hats on is not what is in the bible, but someones interpretation and inferences of what is in the bible. You can say that they are plausible and might be true, but it is not wise to hang your theological hat on such stuff.

[thomas t]

Hi Argosy,

3 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

the Strong's dictionary were written before the word earth was commonly used to refer to our entire planet.  

Even if... Strong's dictionary translates into today's English. Noone buys a distionary Hebrew to 1600 old style Englisch. That won't sell. They want to make money.

So I kindly stay with what I've said, if you allow?

3 hours ago, ARGOSY said:

This makes a lot more sense than weird views of 24 hour days before the sun is made.

It's not weird, it's my reading.

---

Hi Still,

7 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

When your parents describe your life "from the beginning", they do not include their life before you were born, or the events of the world for thousands of years before you were born.

what my parents say - be they honoured - does not count when it comes to Bible intepretation. God counts life from the mother's womb on.

9 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

In reality, we simply don't know.

God says it - some among us still don't know .

10 minutes ago, Still Alive said:

but someones interpretation and inferences

7 days is not an inference, you find it in the Bible.

 

Regards,

Thomas

 

[ARGOSY]

11 minutes ago, thomas t said:

Hi Argosy,

Even if... Strong's dictionary translates into today's English. Noone buys a distionary Hebrew to 1600 old style Englisch. That won't sell. They want to make money.

So I kindly stay with what I've said, if you allow?

It's not weird, it's my reading.

---

Hi Still,

what my parents say - be they honoured - does not count when it comes to Bible intepretation. God counts life from the mother's womb on.

God says it - some among us still don't know .

7 days is not an inference, you find it in the Bible.

 

Regards,

Thomas

 

You may stick with your traditions. I am far too literal for that, when the Bible says erets is dry ground, that is what I believe. 

There was a dark and watery world, no dry ground, no light, and no sky because the mists were so thick in those ancient conditions. Then there was light, and sky, and the sun shone through. This dark world became habitable just over 6000 years ago. Erets means dry ground:

 And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so. God called the dry ground “erets” and the gathered waters he called “seas.”

NOT THIS:

And God said, “Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear.” And it was so.10 God called the dry ground “PLANET EARTH” and the gathered waters he called “seas.”

That view just does not work.