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Matthitjah

How are Christians to react when it appears that Chaos has been unleashed

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I was researching General Christian History recently and stumbled upon the Fall of Rome and how Christianity reacted to it.

 

Then today I was reading about how the State of Virginia was proposing an Abortion bill that would have allowed infanticide in allowing a woman and her Doctor the right to determine if a pregnancy can be terminated right up to dilation and full term delivery. This is on the heels of New York passing a similar measure and having the State House in full applause at what they had accomplished.

 

What should Christians do when the World seems to have gone crazy? How are we to react when we see possible Judgement drawing near?

In the year 410 AD Rome was sacked by the Goth's some of whom happened to be Christian and even paid tribute to St. Peter at a basilica dedicated to the Apostle. The Christian world saw this as the end of the world. There was saying of that day and it went like this," When Rome falls, the World will also fall." To everyone concerned both Christian and Pagan the sacking of Rome meant the end of Rome. Even though it's final demise would come later. 

 

There were three Christians of Note that reacted to this event as they saw streams of refuge's both Christian and Pagan fleeing from Rome.

Augustine of Hippo (354-430), Jerome of Bethlehem (347-420), and Orosius of Spain (375-418).

These men varied widely as they responded to the concerns of those affected.

I want to explore this some more in later posts. What I want to do here is relate how the concern for our very own Nation the U.S. has Christians and Pagans reacting.

These men mentioned above witnessed chaos unleashed as the Greatest Empire of their day fell. It took years for this to happen and was mostly due to the decadence of the Roman Empire.

I'm reading with keen interest the happenings right here in the U.S. The reactions of Christians vary and the explanations for why this is happening vary. The reaction of Pagans is that it's the Christians fault and even that the very foundation of the Nation and it's effect on the World are at fault. Not surprisingly the Pagans of Rome's fall blamed Christian practice and worship too, even though the Goth's that sacked Rome were primarily Christian.

 

Can we learn something from the reactions of the past? I don't mean to say that we will be sacked here in the U.S. or even that we are falling. I think it's pretty obvious and has been for a while that we are in a moral free fall which isn't going to end well unless we see a Revival. I'm not date setting or prophesying. I'm asking what our reaction to this should be. Fear, anxiety, condemnation, or exhilaration? Where should our focus be?

 

Peace,

Dave

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2 hours ago, Michael37 said:

I believe our focus should be on quietly cultivating godliness, not becoming entangled in worldly affairs apart from discerning the evil of them and witnessing the goodness of God in Christ to the lost. 

Act 19:36  Seeing then that these things cannot be spoken against, you ought to be quiet, and to do nothing rashly.
1Th 4:11  And that you study to be quiet, and to do your own business, and to work with your own hands, as we commanded you;

1Ti 2:1-4
(1)  I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
(2)  For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
(3)  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 
(4)  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
 
1Pe 3:4  But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.

Awesome, thanks for joining in the Study!

 

Peace,

Dave

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In continuation,

 

I wanted to share some of the thoughts I've seen expressed on the issues facing us. We are a Polarized society but even in the Christian community our responses can vary widely. These responses can be seen every where including social media, internet, popular news media, and even water cooler talk.

 

(Warning: This is not a Political Post or even offered for argumentation. It's just an examination of the arguments and commentary out there.)

 

Standard responses I've seen expressed by Pagans are that we Christians and our foundation of Judeo/Christian values and morality are to blame. It is hateful because it isn't inclusive some even express. Some blame what they term the Radical Right or Right leaning Politicians who might share some of the Judeo/Christian ideals. There is hateful rhetoric and an anti-Judeo/Christian God of the Bible sentiment.

 

Standard responses I've seen from Christians range from condemnation to extreme inclusion. In example Christians will often say that adherents to the Pagans argument will and should be condemned to hell while other Christians will try to appease the argumentation by being inclusive to the point of arguing away Biblical morality and values. Some might condemn Politicians and the Nation outright while others believe that we can save Republic if we will institute more restrictive moral laws. Some even believe that "If America falls, the World will also fall." (To borrow from our early Roman brethren.)

 

What are some of the responses that you have heard? If you'd like share them here.

 

Peace,

Dave

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the whole world was in anarchy a week ago, with various weather extremes, if it wasn't for the faithful we could have all died 

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On 1/30/2019 at 8:53 PM, Matthitjah said:

In the year 410 AD Rome was sacked by the Goth's some of whom happened to be Christian

I understand that Jesus did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save. And the one who lives by the sword will perish by the sword. So, I am not in a hurry to assume that ones involved in conquest are really Christian people. Culturally in some way, ones might be, but having the label does not make us stable in God's way of loving.

On 2/5/2019 at 6:49 AM, noblenut said:

the whole world was in anarchy a week ago, with various weather extremes, if it wasn't for the faithful we could have all died 

Possibly, you mean we are the salt of the earth, and therefore our prayer and obedience is used by God to keep the lid on things, as much as He pleases. In any case, what we do with God accomplishes more than all which secular leaders of all history have done. 

"'In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.'" (Genesis 22:18)

So, thank You, God, for however You make each of us this important 😊

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On 1/30/2019 at 7:53 PM, Matthitjah said:

I'm reading with keen interest the happenings right here in the U.S. The reactions of Christians vary and the explanations for why this is happening vary. The reaction of Pagans is that it's the Christians fault and even that the very foundation of the Nation and it's effect on the World are at fault. Not surprisingly the Pagans of Rome's fall blamed Christian practice and worship too, even though the Goth's that sacked Rome were primarily Christian.

 

Can we learn something from the reactions of the past? I don't mean to say that we will be sacked here in the U.S. or even that we are falling. I think it's pretty obvious and has been for a while that we are in a moral free fall which isn't going to end well unless we see a Revival. I'm not date setting or prophesying. I'm asking what our reaction to this should be. Fear, anxiety, condemnation, or exhilaration? Where should our focus be?

No,  learning from the past usually never occurs.  Jesus says to the Ekklesia/disciples:  COME TO ME, I know you don't know how to live.  Come learn from Me, I will show you how to live right.  And I am meek and lowly of heart. 

Ekklesia are in many places "sacked", blamed, arrested, tortured, slain, martyred, all through all the centuries including this one and the last one (millions slain OR lost their faith when threatened)

(again perhaps part of why learning from history does not work - history is not recorded or not reported accurately, except when God oversees it for His Good Pleasure So To Do.  (In Scripture, best example - good and bad, right and wrong, by God's Chosen is clearly revealed ,  not covered up for convenience and no "political correctness" is permitted nor practiced among God's Ekklesia.)

We were already "sacked here in the U.S."  , already "are falling" or "fallen" far , far from Yahweh's Standard. (believers and even pagans in other countries have known this for almost a century.) .   There might be some revival, but not likely much, barring sheer grace and many miracles - Jesus and the Apostles freely healed many everywhere they went and cast demons out.  Most churches in the usa do not even believe it is possible, nor do most permit healing and casting out demons.

"Reaction?"  Do not react.  Period.  "Fear" ? No, not in Ekklesia.  "Anxiety"? again, no, not in Ekklesia. (see in NT).  "condemnation" ? no, not for Ekklesia. "Exhilaration"?  As written, IF the spirit that RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD DWELLS IN YOU ... yes, you will then be excited,  with full abiding peace, joy and righteousness continually, every day.

Yahweh's Word , the BIBLE, clearly tells the focus to be:   SEEK FIRST the Kingdom of Yahweh (God) , and His Righteousness.  (and continually seek.  KEEP ON SEEKING ALL THE TIME)     No worries at all - roll them all off onto God's Shoulders, in His Care. 

Edited by simplejeff
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On 2/26/2019 at 4:26 AM, simplejeff said:

No,  learning from the past usually never occurs.  Jesus says to the Ekklesia/disciples:  COME TO ME, I know you don't know how to live.  Come learn from Me, I will show you how to live right.  And I am meek and lowly of heart. 

Ekklesia are in many places "sacked", blamed, arrested, tortured, slain, martyred, all through all the centuries including this one and the last one (millions slain OR lost their faith when threatened)

(again perhaps part of why learning from history does not work - history is not recorded or not reported accurately, except when God oversees it for His Good Pleasure So To Do.  (In Scripture, best example - good and bad, right and wrong, by God's Chosen is clearly revealed ,  not covered up for convenience and no "political correctness" is permitted nor practiced among God's Ekklesia.)

We were already "sacked here in the U.S."  , already "are falling" or "fallen" far , far from Yahweh's Standard. (believers and even pagans in other countries have known this for almost a century.) .   There might be some revival, but not likely much, barring sheer grace and many miracles - Jesus and the Apostles freely healed many everywhere they went and cast demons out.  Most churches in the usa do not even believe it is possible, nor do most permit healing and casting out demons.

"Reaction?"  Do not react.  Period.  "Fear" ? No, not in Ekklesia.  "Anxiety"? again, no, not in Ekklesia. (see in NT).  "condemnation" ? no, not for Ekklesia. "Exhilaration"?  As written, IF the spirit that RAISED CHRIST FROM THE DEAD DWELLS IN YOU ... yes, you will then be excited,  with full abiding peace, joy and righteousness continually, every day.

Yahweh's Word , the BIBLE, clearly tells the focus to be:   SEEK FIRST the Kingdom of Yahweh (God) , and His Righteousness.  (and continually seek.  KEEP ON SEEKING ALL THE TIME)     No worries at all - roll them all off onto God's Shoulders, in His Care. 

I have experienced some of these supernatural miracles.

 

Why?

 

God promised that those who seek after Him with their whole heart, soul, mind, and Spirit would find Him.

So when I stopped looking to man's traditions and started asking the Lord to visit me---- well, it happened!

 

Some people told me I'd just have to wait till I died and went to heaven. Well, apparently not.

 

The Lord's heart is all love and He desires people to seek Him so He can bless them with His wisdom and understanding.

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On 31 January 2019 at 1:53 AM, Matthitjah said:

 I'm asking what our reaction to this should be. Fear, anxiety, condemnation, or exhilaration? Where should our focus be?

 

Exactly the same as it is now. That of serving God in our area.

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I believe Mt 5:13 might well prove relevant here.It is a parable which no doubt even non-Christians without fear of generalization use almost every day. Christ compares the Christian metaphorically with salt, " You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled by men"(New International Version)I believe that the reaction of a Christian should remain unbending regarding the will of God as stated in the accepted Canon.

The murder remains murder no matter what name we give it, infinite, abortion or whatever excuses we can conjure up . Unless their are reasonable grounds of justification on medical reasons necessitating the saving of the mother's life. Which is a quite logical excuse.The same with homosexuality and other abominations in Deut.18.So Christians who are useful salt should not remain silent on these matters lest we become insipid.As this commentary puts it."God has no alternative plan.He depends entirely on Christians to be instruments of His purpose to Christianize the world."(Zondervan Pastor's Annual 1977 p 73)

William Barclay sees it as "But the essential point remains whatever the picture here,and it is a point which the New Testament makes and remakes again and again-uselessness invites disaster.If a Christian is not fulfilling his purpose as a Christian, then he is on the way to disaster.We are meant to be the salt of the earth, and if we do not bring to life the purity, the antiseptic power, the radiance that we ought, then we invite disaster."(Barclay. Gospel of Matthew Volume 1. p 117) Very significant here is the use of the Greek word "moros"or "moraino" for loss of saltiness" .the word "moron" suddenly springs to mind as far as our "uselessness" is concerned in counteracting a world which is morally backsliding in leaps and bounds.We are to remain "salty" no matter what. 

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