R. Hartono Posted February 4, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 770 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said: Finally, the "white" horse. I challenge you to find anything else in the Bible (of any significance) that is white and referring to something that is NOT holy or pure. Thats a piece of cake for the devil, you see he will conquer the world with PEACE, 2 Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. but Jesus will conquer the world in the Armageddon battle and take back the world from the devil. Edited February 4, 2019 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 4, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 770 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 (edited) On 2/3/2019 at 4:52 AM, DonkeySpeaksAgain said: Rev. 1:1 "the revelation of Jesus Christ... to show unto his servants things which MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS." The book of Revelation is THE PROPHETIC BOOK for the ENTIRE Church Age, which began in the first century! We havent seen the 3rd seal being opened and the price of bread will be as expensive as one day of labour's wage. We havent seen the 4th seal being opened and 1/4 of the world is destroyed by war, where is this now ? And we havent seen people killing each other after the 2nd seal is opened and peace is removed, the world is still relatively peaceful. There are many cases of personal murders that can be contained in prison since the ancient time. With the opening of 5th seal, the whole world will persecute christianity, you havent seen it as you are still secure now. Edited February 4, 2019 by R. Hartono Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Hartono Posted February 4, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 770 Topics Per Day: 0.34 Content Count: 6,929 Content Per Day: 3.07 Reputation: 1,979 Days Won: 1 Joined: 02/15/2018 Status: Offline Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 10 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said: Again, when does the 69th week end? SHOW YOUR WORK. Your challenge is simple... prove the 69th week ends at the cross - then you can make all those assumptions about Rev. I have shown how the 69th week ends at the baptism and so far NO ONE Has shown how it contradicts the Bible or history. The 69th week will end when antichrist is launched by the 1st seal to conquer the world with fake peace. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK..... (this will fulfill the 70th WEEK). The Revelation to John was written around 80-90 CE, its about the future being revealed otherwise you will never know what is in the Seal to come. It doesnt look back to the time be4 the Revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeySpeaksAgain Posted February 4, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 269 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 4, 2019 9 hours ago, R. Hartono said: We havent seen the 3rd seal being opened and the price of bread will be as expensive as one day of labour's wage. We havent seen the 4th seal being opened and 1/4 of the world is destroyed by war, where is this now ? And we havent seen people killing each other after the 2nd seal is opened and peace is removed, the world is still relatively peaceful. There are many cases of personal murders that can be contained in prison since the ancient time. With the opening of 5th seal, the whole world will persecute christianity, you havent seen it as you are still secure now. The 2nd seal is Islam - killing each other and also killing Jews The 3rd is Catholicism - the scale is not referring to food for the body, but for the soul. This is false teachings. Also, notice the instruction is there to protect the "oil and the wine" (truth is not completely abolished). The 4th seal is Universalism/Unitarianism. The color itself is a mixture of different colors and so we get all the confusion of even determining what the actual color is. Any death mentioned in these is the death caused by the false teaching. The 5th seal only says that those "under the altar" are getting impatient. If these are from a very short tribulation, how can they be getting so impatient right away? It makes sense to say these have been waiting for almost 2000 years and can see the end is near (just like we do right now) and are saying "what are you waiting for?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeySpeaksAgain Posted February 4, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 269 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 4, 2019 9 hours ago, R. Hartono said: The 69th week will end when antichrist is launched by the 1st seal to conquer the world with fake peace. Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for ONE WEEK..... (this will fulfill the 70th WEEK). The Revelation to John was written around 80-90 CE, its about the future being revealed otherwise you will never know what is in the Seal to come. It doesnt look back to the time be4 the Revelation. Sorry, I don't see the proof for the 69th week ending at the cross. The entire prophecy is assigned to Jesus and you are replacing Jesus with the A/C. That is why this is so important and dangerous. Prove that the 69th week ended at the cross - or have just accepted what "experts" have been telling you from the beginning without proofing it out for yourself? The "he" in that verse of Daniel (as well as the one later) is NOT in the original text. All of the context must be "proofed" within ALL Scriptures. You cannot do that unless you insert "your own interpretations" into various NT verses that can just as easily be referring to events in the first century (i.e. AoD). Have you looked at Isa 52&53? Do I have to post it for you? Revelation WAS indeed written around 90ad. And by the way, there is NO mention of the AoD in Revelation. Just saying. Rev. 1 says the prophecies are for what HAS happened, what IS happening, and what WILL happen and that they will "begin shortly" or quickly at appointed time - which is first century. Revelation is the ONLY prophetic book we have for the now almost 2000 year long Church Age. You are implying that God does NOT tell His people ahead of time what is going to happen to them. The "lamps" seen "in heaven" supposedly AFTER the rapture (Ch. 6) are ALL READY in heaven in chapter 1 - All of these things up to the first seal being loosed HAVE all ready happened in the first century. The letters are depictions of what IS happening at the end of the first century, and the first seal opening simply refers to the START of the Church Age after Jesus is resurrected and the Holy Spirit is released (not after the Church is resurrected). The lamps are symbolic of the "light" of truth (Gospel message) while the candlesticks are merely symbols of us (the 'bearers' of that light). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonkeySpeaksAgain Posted February 5, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 269 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/15/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted February 5, 2019 19 hours ago, R. Hartono said: Thats a piece of cake for the devil, you see he will conquer the world with PEACE, 2 Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. but Jesus will conquer the world in the Armageddon battle and take back the world from the devil. ?????????? I don't see the "white" description in any of those, only your insertion /assumption of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 7, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 2/1/2019 at 5:30 AM, R. Hartono said: There are two white horse riders in the book of Revelation, one on earth, another one is in heaven. Lets look at the first white horse rider, what exactly he does on earth ? conquering the world : Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a BOW; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. Bow without arrows is the symbol of peace making. Daniel 8:25 ...and by peace shall destroy many Especially the 7 years peace agreement between Israel-Arabs which has never happened since it has been prophesied 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. THE WORLD WILL BE BROUGHT TO A NEW ERA OF PEACE BECAUSE THE DEVIL WILL STOP ALL THE WARS. 1 Thessalonians 5:3- For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. The 1st seal opening will bring a short time of peace for the world and then the 2nd seal shall be opened and horrors will be unceasingly unleashed. NOW LETS LOOK AT THE 2ND WHITE HORSE RIDER IN HEAVEN, THIS IS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST WITH ALL THE CHARACTERS NOT FOUND AT THE FIRST HORSE. Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords. THIS HORSE IS OBVIOUSLY JESUS READY TO GO TO ARMAGEDDON BATTLE WITH THIS SAINTS AFTER THE MARRIAGE FEAST OF THE LAMB. Rev 19: 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. You have pulled the first seal out of its context, so ended up with nonsense. Don't take my word for it: go back and study chapters 4 & 5 - the context of the first seals. They show TIMING and the movement of time. Notice in chapter 5 that John got to see - in the vision - the very moment Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down - so circa 32 AD. The first seal is the represent the CHURCH sent out with the GOSPEL. Seals 2 -4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. Seal 5 is the martyrs of the church age. Seal 6 begins judgment - still in our future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 7, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 2/4/2019 at 9:13 AM, DonkeySpeaksAgain said: Sorry, I don't see the proof for the 69th week ending at the cross. The entire prophecy is assigned to Jesus and you are replacing Jesus with the A/C. That is why this is so important and dangerous. Prove that the 69th week ended at the cross - or have just accepted what "experts" have been telling you from the beginning without proofing it out for yourself? The "he" in that verse of Daniel (as well as the one later) is NOT in the original text. All of the context must be "proofed" within ALL Scriptures. You cannot do that unless you insert "your own interpretations" into various NT verses that can just as easily be referring to events in the first century (i.e. AoD). Have you looked at Isa 52&53? Do I have to post it for you? Revelation WAS indeed written around 90ad. And by the way, there is NO mention of the AoD in Revelation. Just saying. Rev. 1 says the prophecies are for what HAS happened, what IS happening, and what WILL happen and that they will "begin shortly" or quickly at appointed time - which is first century. Revelation is the ONLY prophetic book we have for the now almost 2000 year long Church Age. You are implying that God does NOT tell His people ahead of time what is going to happen to them. The "lamps" seen "in heaven" supposedly AFTER the rapture (Ch. 6) are ALL READY in heaven in chapter 1 - All of these things up to the first seal being loosed HAVE all ready happened in the first century. The letters are depictions of what IS happening at the end of the first century, and the first seal opening simply refers to the START of the Church Age after Jesus is resurrected and the Holy Spirit is released (not after the Church is resurrected). The lamps are symbolic of the "light" of truth (Gospel message) while the candlesticks are merely symbols of us (the 'bearers' of that light). I agree that the first seals are CHURCH AGE. Seal 1 is the church sent out with the gospel. Good point. The church has been waiting between the 5th and 6th seal for nearly 2000 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 7, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 2/4/2019 at 8:48 AM, DonkeySpeaksAgain said: The 2nd seal is Islam - killing each other and also killing Jews The 3rd is Catholicism - the scale is not referring to food for the body, but for the soul. This is false teachings. Also, notice the instruction is there to protect the "oil and the wine" (truth is not completely abolished). The 4th seal is Universalism/Unitarianism. The color itself is a mixture of different colors and so we get all the confusion of even determining what the actual color is. Any death mentioned in these is the death caused by the false teaching. The 5th seal only says that those "under the altar" are getting impatient. If these are from a very short tribulation, how can they be getting so impatient right away? It makes sense to say these have been waiting for almost 2000 years and can see the end is near (just like we do right now) and are saying "what are you waiting for?". I disagree. Seals 2 through 4 are to represent EVERY attempt of the devil to stop the advance of the gospel (seal 1). He would use war (the sword), famine (hunger), and pestilence (think the black plague). God limited them in their theater of operation to 1/4 the earth - centered on Jerusalem where the gospel began. These three riders ride together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marilyn C Posted February 7, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 30 Topic Count: 266 Topics Per Day: 0.07 Content Count: 13,177 Content Per Day: 3.49 Reputation: 8,482 Days Won: 12 Joined: 12/21/2013 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/06/1947 Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 2/1/2019 at 10:00 PM, R. Hartono said: There are two white horse riders in the book of Revelation, one on earth, another one is in heaven. Lets look at the first white horse rider, what exactly he does on earth ? conquering the world : Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a BOW; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. Bow without arrows is the symbol of peace making. Daniel 8:25 ...and by peace shall destroy many Especially the 7 years peace agreement between Israel-Arabs which has never happened since it has been prophesied 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. THE WORLD WILL BE BROUGHT TO A NEW ERA OF PEACE BECAUSE THE DEVIL WILL STOP ALL THE WARS. 1 Thessalonians 5:3- For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. The 1st seal opening will bring a short time of peace for the world and then the 2nd seal shall be opened and horrors will be unceasingly unleashed. Hi Hartono, I see the 4 horsemen as identified as spirit powers over 4 Federations, from Zech. 6: 5. `These are the four spirits of heaven, who go out from their station before the Lord of all the earth.` Those four spirits (winds/same Hebrew word) were identified as being over four Federations in Dan. 7, where we see they are described as four beasts. They are the four contemporary super powers of our day. Daniel was shown where they came from and John in revelation was shown how they will be at the start of the tribulation. These are the four super powers that come under the sway of the anti-Christ and his 10 king federation. God is dealing with rulers and that is what we are seeing. Marilyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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