There are two different horse Riders of Revelation.

[JoeCanada]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Does these verse mean ANYTHING to you?

Rev. 5:

⁶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

⁷ And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

You should ask yourself a question: WHEN? When did Jesus get this book into His hands?

The truth is, you are 2000 years off in your reasoning.

Hi iml,

Again, you're pulling a verse out of context.

Jesus is seen right from Rev 1...all the way thru.

Are you saying that Jesus was there up to the end of Rev 4:11....(the 24 elders fall down before HIM who sits on the throne, saying) "Worthy are YOU, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and because of your will they existed, and were created".............then went back down to the earth, then came back in Rev 5?

Well, I just say this is utter nonsense. C'mon now brother. 

 

[DonkeySpeaksAgain]

3 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

  11 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

21 hours ago, iamlamad said:

22 hours ago, Oseas Ramos de Siqueira said:

On 2/13/2019 at 8:40 AM, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mal'ak said:

  2 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

We need to start with chapter 1... 

5: And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,  6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Notice the words "glory and dominion" - this is what was granted Jesus upon His entry into Heaven. He has dominion over the Whole Earth not just Israel (before the cross - when the four beasts are attached to each other and can ONLY be in one spot and move in only ONE direction. 

Chapter 4:1  After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

The door to heaven is opened at the START of the "Church Age" - Jesus is given a throne. NOT the end of it (rapture when the door is closed - at least temporarily). The end of verse 1 also proclaims that John will be shown what is going to happen AFTER this point. (That means AFTER the start of the Church Age)

Next we read about the 24 elders, 7 lamps (spirits = associated with the 7 letters from ch. 2 & 3), "lightning, thunder and voices", a "sea of glass" & the four beasts. The four beast have "faces" like (or similar to) a Lion, Man, Calf, and Eagle. (Identical to Ezek 1:5-11 except they are no longer 'tied together)

Rev. 8 

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

⁹ And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

¹⁰ The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

¹¹ Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

What is the "duty" of the beasts? They are constantly giving praise and glory to Jesus - nonstop. Notice also how they are at this time (context of placing these verses on the time line) saying that Jesus is worthy to receive "GLORY, HONOR, and POWER". That means He has NOT yet received them. Previously all that was given was GLORY and DOMINION (from conquering death). 

Rev. 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

The "right hand" denotes power, authority, AND also... wisdom and understanding which is tied into salvation - the Gospel message. (Exod. 15:6, Deut. 33:2, Job 40:14, Ps. 16:11, Ps. 17:7, Ps. 18:35, Ps. 20:6, Ps. 48:10, Ps. 77:10 "I will remember the years of the right af God", Ps. 78:54, (which his right hand had purchased), Ps. 80:15 ("thy right had planted"), Ps. 89:25, Ps. 110:1 ("The LORD said unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand til I make thine enemies thy footstool"), Ps. 118:15, Ps. 142:4 ("I looked on my right hand and beheld but there was no man that would know me"), Prov. 3:13-18 (wisdom and understanding attached to 'merchandise' - something 'bought'.)

Written on two sides and sealed...

Exod. 32:15 (the commandments were written on BOTH sides of the tablets) - They were given to guide and instruct the Jews into knowledge and obedience to God and with the SAME 'curse' that is tied to the book of Rev. (Deut.28:58 & 29:20)

A seal denotes a Kingly (God) covenant or decree that CANNOT be revoked. (Neh. 9:38, Esther 8:8, Daniels 70 weeks prophecy, Job 33:16 ("he opened the ears of men and sealed their instruction"), Isa. 8:16 ("Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples" - the testimony of Jesus is given to the apostles), Isa. 29:11 ("And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:" - Chapter 28 speaks of the events of first century... the Messiah and 70ad)

Rev. 5:5 "behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book" 

"Lion" is associated with Jesus and he prevailed in the first century at the START of the Church Age. The 'unsealing' involves BOTH the fulfilling of OT prophecies & blinding of the Jews on ONE side and the opening or revealing of the NEW covenant with Christians on the OTHER side. When the seals are removed, the Jewish people will be able to 'see' the truth and accept Jesus (7th seal), thus ENDING the Church Age and re-starting the 70th week of Daniel and ultimately completing OT prophecies. 

Rev. 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10  And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Again, WHEN did Jesus accomplish this? = in the first century.

Rev. 5:11 shows tens of thousands and thousands of thousands in heaven. Most will say this is the rapture, BUT we are told exactly who these myriads are = "angels, beasts, and elders" = THE SAME GROUP WE SAW EARLIER.

Rev. 5:12 "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing."

Once again we see all the accolades Jesus WILL receive, but for now ONLY "Blessing, Glory, Honor, and Power" are given. So, what is still to come later? = riches, wisdom, & strength. 

Rev. 7:12 "Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God forever and ever. Amen."

And, WHEN are these accolades actually received? = RIGHT AFTER the great multitude are received in heaven (the rapture)!

Rev. 12:10 "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:"

When is Strength given? = When Satan is cast out of heaven.

Riches are only seen in the obverse in Rev. 18:17 as the Whore is destroyed. Prov. 3:13-18 relates this to merchandise, gold, silver, and precious gems all of which refer to wisdom and understanding - the knowledge that Jesus is the Messiah and the only way to heaven. This comes at the end of the tribulation with the 2nd coming.

 

NOW, we can talk about the first seal...

 

Rev 6:1 "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see." A white horse, a bow (no arrows), a crown, and going out to 'conquer'.

Notice it is ONE of the four beasts that were seen introducing EACH of the first four seals. The first is not mentioned, but by process of elimination... it is the "LION" (the true gospel)

BOW:

           Ps. 7:7-12 (speaking of JESUS) 

^"7 So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes, therefore, return thou on high.

⁸ The Lord shall judge the people: judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

⁹ Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

¹⁰ My defense is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

¹¹ God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

¹² If he turns not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow and made it ready.

¹³ He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors."

A 'BOW' is seen as an instrument of judgment in the OT. Before the cross it was the Law, but now it is Jesus and the Holy Spirit that will 'judge' the world.

The "CROWN" is in Ps. 8:5-6 (about JESUS) 

^"5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

⁶ Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:"

Notice again, the "glory and Honor" associated with the cross/resurrection. 'Dominion over the world' another familiar phrase.

Now, "CONQUERING".... This same word in Greek (#3528) is translated two different ways = 'conquer' or 'overcome'. I should not have to show all the NT verses about how we as believers "are more than conquerers" or how "we must overcome evil". 

The word "white" is ALWAYS associated with purity and holiness and is NEVER used to describe evil or anything associated with it.

If all that is not enough, there is more...  You mentioned Zech 6 as being linked to these horses, but I don't think you looked far enough down the book... 

Zech 9:9-10 "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. 10  And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."

Look at verse 10 all by itself - you may think this refers to the antichrist, but verse 9 clearly says this is about JESUS!  The chariot is the one controlling the horse. Horses are the spirits or messengers of God. Jesus is cut off, but the Holy Spirit AND the Law are removed from Israel and are temporarily replaced with the gospel/testimony of Jesus being preached to the heathen during the Church Age.

Zech 6 says the order is red, black, white, bay (with grisled - strong- chariot). Islam moved East (of Jerusalem), Christianity moved North and the black one (Catholicism stopped and headquartered in Rome). the white horse followed after the black one, but continued moving west, the bay horse (spiritual confusion) went South and wandered the earth (scattered). 

[R. Hartono]

14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

 The first seal is to represent the Gospel sent out.

Why would God hide the Gospel being sent out with a SEAL ? Everybody knows that Jesus began His ministry 2000 years ago, no need to hide it with SEAL, man oh man.

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

Why would God hide the Gospel being sent out with a SEAL ? Everybody knows that Jesus began His ministry 2000 years ago, no need to hide it with SEAL, man oh man.

If the seal is hiding anything, it is hiding the BOOK, preventing the book from being opened until all seven seals are opened.  Keep in mind that the BOOK is the way to end Satan's reign as god or spiritual ruler of this planet. Do you imagine Satan would give up his reign easily? 

I can only guess, because no where in the bible is it told: I am convinced Satan thinks he will NEVER be dethroned as god of this planet! First,, he thought no man would EVER escape death and hell and be found worthy to open the seals. That is why I think he, the devil, must have had something to do with the seals sealing this book.  It is a simple truth: the book CANNOT be opened to begin the trumpet judgments until all 7 seals are opened. 

Once Jesus overcame death and became worthy to open the seals, then Satan was sure he could keep the gospel contained in the 1/4 of the earth he was allowed to work with the Sword, with Famine and with Death. Again he failed. The gospel is almost everywhere now. 

Soon the rapture will take place, that will trigger the DAY of the Lord to begin, so the 6th seal can be opened: then after that, the 7th seal, and finally, soon in our future, the book will be opened to reveal the 7 trumpet judgments.....which will be the countdown to Satan losing his position as ruler of this planet. 

In other words, just as the devil was involved with Job, I think he was involved in some way with this book sealed with 7 seals.  I am convinced he was sure no seal would ever be opened and he would be the ruler of this planet forever. 

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

 

We need to start with chapter 1... 

5: And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,  6  And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Notice the words "glory and dominion" - this is what was granted Jesus upon His entry into Heaven. He has dominion over the Whole Earth not just Israel (before the cross - when the four beasts are attached to each other and can ONLY be in one spot and move in only ONE direction. 

Chapter 4:1  After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. 2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

The door to heaven is opened at the START of the "Church Age" - Jesus is given a throne. NOT the end of it (rapture when the door is closed - at least temporarily). The end of verse 1 also proclaims that John will be shown what is going to happen AFTER this point. (That means AFTER the start of the Church Age)

Next we read about the 24 elders, 7 lamps (spirits = associated with the 7 letters from ch. 2 & 3), "lightning, thunder and voices", a "sea of glass" & the four beasts. The four beast have "faces" like (or similar to) a Lion, Man, Calf, and Eagle. (Identical to Ezek 1:5-11 except they are no longer 'tied together)

Rev. 8 

And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

⁹ And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,

¹⁰ The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

¹¹ Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

What is the "duty" of the beasts? They are constantly giving praise and glory to Jesus - nonstop. Notice also how they are at this time (context of placing these verses on the time line) saying that Jesus is worthy to receive "GLORY, HONOR, and POWER". That means He has NOT yet received them. Previously all that was given was GLORY and DOMINION (from conquering death). 

Rev. 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

The "right hand" denotes power, authority, AND also... wisdom and understanding which is tied into salvation - the Gospel message. (Exod. 15:6, Deut. 33:2, Job 40:14, Ps. 16:11, Ps. 17:7, Ps. 18:35, Ps. 20:6, Ps. 48:10, Ps. 77:10 "I will remember the years of the right af God", Ps. 78:54, (which his right hand had purchased), Ps. 80:15 ("thy right had planted"), Ps. 89:25, Ps. 110:1 ("The LORD said unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand til I make thine enemies thy footstool"), Ps. 118:15, Ps. 142:4 ("I looked on my right hand and beheld but there was no man that would know me"), Prov. 3:13-18 (wisdom and understanding attached to 'merchandise' - something 'bought'.)

Written on two sides and sealed...

Exod. 32:15 (the commandments were written on BOTH sides of the tablets) - They were given to guide and instruct the Jews into knowledge and obedience to God and with the SAME 'curse' that is tied to the book of Rev. (Deut.28:58 & 29:20)

A seal denotes a Kingly (God) covenant or decree that CANNOT be revoked. (Neh. 9:38, Esther 8:8, Daniels 70 weeks prophecy, Job 33:16 ("he opened the ears of men and sealed their instruction"), Isa. 8:16 ("Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples" - the testimony of Jesus is given to the apostles), Isa. 29:11 ("And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:" - Chapter 28 speaks of the events of first century... the Messiah and 70ad)

Rev. 5:5 "behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book" 

"Lion" is associated with Jesus and he prevailed in the first century at the START of the Church Age. The 'unsealing' involves BOTH the fulfilling of OT prophecies & blinding of the Jews on ONE side and the opening or revealing of the NEW covenant with Christians on the OTHER side. When the seals are removed, the Jewish people will be able to 'see' the truth and accept Jesus (7th seal), thus ENDING the Church Age and re-starting the 70th week of Daniel and ultimately completing OT prophecies. 

Rev. 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10  And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Again, WHEN did Jesus accomplish this? = in the first century.

Rev. 5:11 shows tens of thousands and thousands of thousands in heaven. Most will say this is the rapture, BUT we are told exactly who these myriads are = "angels, beasts, and elders" = THE SAME GROUP WE SAW EARLIER.

Rev. 5:12 "Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honor, and glory, and blessing."

Once again we see all the accolades Jesus WILL receive, but for now ONLY "Blessing, Glory, Honor, and Power" are given. So, what is still to come later? = riches, wisdom, & strength. 

Rev. 7:12 "Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honor, and power, and might, be unto our God forever and ever. Amen."

And, WHEN are these accolades actually received? = RIGHT AFTER the great multitude are received in heaven (the rapture)!

Rev. 12:10 "Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:"

When is Strength given? = When Satan is cast out of heaven.

Riches are only seen in the obverse in Rev. 18:17 as the Whore is destroyed. Prov. 3:13-18 relates this to merchandise, gold, silver, and precious gems all of which refer to wisdom and understanding - the knowledge that Jesus is the Messiah and the only way to heaven. This comes at the end of the tribulation with the 2nd coming.

 

NOW, we can talk about the first seal...

 

Rev 6:1 "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see." A white horse, a bow (no arrows), a crown, and going out to 'conquer'.

Notice it is ONE of the four beasts that were seen introducing EACH of the first four seals. The first is not mentioned, but by process of elimination... it is the "LION" (the true gospel)

BOW:

           Ps. 7:7-12 (speaking of JESUS) 

^"7 So shall the congregation of the people compass thee about: for their sakes, therefore, return thou on high.

⁸ The Lord shall judge the people: judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

⁹ Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

¹⁰ My defense is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

¹¹ God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

¹² If he turns not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow and made it ready.

¹³ He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors."

A 'BOW' is seen as an instrument of judgment in the OT. Before the cross it was the Law, but now it is Jesus and the Holy Spirit that will 'judge' the world.

The "CROWN" is in Ps. 8:5-6 (about JESUS) 

^"5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

⁶ Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:"

Notice again, the "glory and Honor" associated with the cross/resurrection. 'Dominion over the world' another familiar phrase.

Now, "CONQUERING".... This same word in Greek (#3528) is translated two different ways = 'conquer' or 'overcome'. I should not have to show all the NT verses about how we as believers "are more than conquerers" or how "we must overcome evil". 

The word "white" is ALWAYS associated with purity and holiness and is NEVER used to describe evil or anything associated with it.

If all that is not enough, there is more...  You mentioned Zech 6 as being linked to these horses, but I don't think you looked far enough down the book... 

Zech 9:9-10 "Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass. 10  And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."

Look at verse 10 all by itself - you may think this refers to the antichrist, but verse 9 clearly says this is about JESUS!  The chariot is the one controlling the horse. Horses are the spirits or messengers of God. Jesus is cut off, but the Holy Spirit AND the Law are removed from Israel and are temporarily replaced with the gospel/testimony of Jesus being preached to the heathen during the Church Age.

Zech 6 says the order is red, black, white, bay (with grisled - strong- chariot). Islam moved East (of Jerusalem), Christianity moved North and the black one (Catholicism stopped and headquartered in Rome). the white horse followed after the black one, but continued moving west, the bay horse (spiritual confusion) went South and wandered the earth (scattered). 

Sorry, but you started off on the wrong foot. John was OLD when He was called up to heaven. He was YOUNG when the church began.  Did you notice? He was called up to heaven SO THAT we could have this book to read. 

After the start of the church age  Did God show John ANYTHING of the future? Many people read this as if John wrote that God would show John ONLY things in the future - meaning that every word from that point on in the book MUST BE future. The truth is, if God has shown John just a couple of things that were future, then filled the book with recipes for manna, He would not have told an untruth.  The truth is, that first vision of the throne room was a vision from John's PAST!  (Believe it - for it is truth.)

Why make this so complicated? It is very simple: THE BOOK leads to Satan losing his reign as spiritual ruler of this planet, and being cast down from the heavenlies. The seals are to prevent the book from being opened until all 7 seals have been opened. I am convinced that Satan was SURE no seal would ever get opened and he would remain as god of this world forever. 

in the first century.  Absolutely right! Good job!

When the seals are removed, the Jewish people will be able to 'see' the truth and accept Jesus (7th seal), thus ENDING the Church Age  NOT!  The truth is, when the seals are all open then THE BOOK can be opened to begin the trumpet judgments - the COUNTDOWN to Satan losing his kingdoms.

Good point on what Jesus received and when.

[Mal'ak]

12 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

The word "white" is ALWAYS associated with purity and holiness and is NEVER used to describe evil or anything associated with it.

 

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

in the first century.  Absolutely right! Good job!

 

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

You both are missing the important thing, that there will be a false prophet and a false Christ, for them to be said to be "Christ" they will need to appear to me "white".  Jesus said that at this time the anti-Christ and false prophet "shall shew great signs and wonders; if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect".

 

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

 

In Revelation 13 when it explains all the beasts and the dragon, along with what they will be doing on earth, the false prophet is said to look like a "lamb" but speaks as a "dragon".  Which obviously fits in with the false prophet coming as a "white horse", since he will look to be holy but really he will be preaching lies to deceive the world.

 

[DonkeySpeaksAgain]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but you started off on the wrong foot. John was OLD when He was called up to heaven. He was YOUNG when the church began.  Did you notice? He was called up to heaven SO THAT we could have this book to read. 

After the start of the church age  Did God show John ANYTHING of the future? Many people read this as if John wrote that God would show John ONLY things in the future - meaning that every word from that point on in the book MUST BE future. The truth is, if God has shown John just a couple of things that were future, then filled the book with recipes for manna, He would not have told an untruth.  The truth is, that first vision of the throne room was a vision from John's PAST!  (Believe it - for it is truth.)

Why make this so complicated? It is very simple: THE BOOK leads to Satan losing his reign as spiritual ruler of this planet, and being cast down from the heavenlies. The seals are to prevent the book from being opened until all 7 seals have been opened. I am convinced that Satan was SURE no seal would ever get opened and he would remain as god of this world forever. 

in the first century.  Absolutely right! Good job!

When the seals are removed, the Jewish people will be able to 'see' the truth and accept Jesus (7th seal), thus ENDING the Church Age  NOT!  The truth is, when the seals are all open then THE BOOK can be opened to begin the trumpet judgments - the COUNTDOWN to Satan losing his kingdoms.

Good point on what Jesus received and when.

Sorry, but I see that you want to make believe that the first four seals are opened in the first century. This makes little sense as I have outlined how different accolades are attributed to Jesus at the key prophetic points. These are NOT all thrust upon Him at the same time, but are gradually added as more prophecy is fulfilled. 

  I do agree that John is shown what 1) HAS happened - the cross and beginnings of the Church/end of Israel along with their 'blinding' which is rejection of Jesus, 2) what is NOW or rather what is happening at that time - the 7 letters AND the START of the Church Age, AND what is happening in heaven, and 3) what WILL happen from that point on - embedded within the 7 letters and the seals slowly being opened which is the ONLY prophecy concerning the Church Age in Scripture. To read it any other way would suggest that God DOES NOT TELL HIS PEOPLE WHAT HE IS ABOUT TO DO - BEFORE HE DOES IT. That goes against Scripture and would also mean that the Church Age is meaningless to God and we are wasting our time.

When the seals are removed, the Jewish people will be able to 'see' the truth and accept Jesus (7th seal), thus ENDING the Church Age... TRUE

At the 7th seal, the Church Age ends (the rapture all ready happened [6th seal], the wedding party in heaven lasts "about half an hour" or 7 days), and the blindness is removed with the sealing of the 144K (JEWS)). This 7th seal can be either at the start or end of the tribulation without causing any contradiction on the prophecy time line.

The first two trumpets represent the Rapture of the dead believers (first) followed by those who are ALIVE or "on the earth". When you apply the "metaphors" too much to physical things (like saying it is referring to the green things being actually burned instead of spiritual ones = the Bible describes the righteous as being "green grass and trees"), you end up with false teaching. Remember, to be "sanctified" to God the 'offering' MUST be burnt. 

The third trumpet is a great (powerful) star falling from heaven which causes the fresh "water" (lukewarm, left-behind believers) to become 'bitter' (full of false teachings) which causes many to 'die' - again spiritual death. (The Harlot is revealed after the true believers are removed)

The fourth trumpet sees 1/3 of the sun, moon, and stars being darkened. The war in heaven causes 1/3 of the angels to be cast out. (The False Prophet)

The fifth trumpet is interrupted by an angelic announcement - "woe, woe, woe" (the three woes) are the the last three trumpets.

The fifth trumpet sees a star fall from heaven who opens the pit (begins the tribulation). Obviously, this is Satan (the beast). The start of the final 3.5 year tribulation. These first 5 trumpets will occur in relatively rapid succession. Maybe only a matter of days or a week or two. We know the first two occur in the "twinkling of an eye". And if one day is like a thousand years in heaven, then the war in heaven may only be minutes or hours to those here on earth. 

The 6th trumpet (2nd woe) releases the "four angels of destruction" - Armageddon judges the world and 1/3 of mankind is killed. The rest still refuse to accept Jesus and repent - the "gnashing of teeth". 

BEFORE the 7th trumpet (3rd woe) there is a 'little book" that is fully opened, but John is told to "seal it up". So, there is still another prophetic book that will be added later (my guess is this will be God's prophecy for the Millennium - Rev. 10:11). Of course, the 7th trumpet is the 2nd coming and start of the Millennium. The "bowls" are poured out AFTER Jesus returns. This is the extra 45 days from the end of Daniel 12.

[DonkeySpeaksAgain]

31 minutes ago, Mal'ak said:

 

 

Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

 

You both are missing the important thing, that there will be a false prophet and a false Christ, for them to be said to be "Christ" they will need to appear to me "white".  Jesus said that at this time the anti-Christ and false prophet "shall shew great signs and wonders; if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect".

 

Revelation 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

 

In Revelation 13 when it explains all the beasts and the dragon, along with what they will be doing on earth, the false prophet is said to look like a "lamb" but speaks as a "dragon".  Which obviously fits in with the false prophet coming as a "white horse", since he will look to be holy but really he will be preaching lies to deceive the world.

 

Does it say anywhere that the A/C is described as white = NO, only that he will deceive.

The Beast in Rev. 13 is the A/C (YES), but it does NOT say anything about being white, ONLY that he is "like" a lamb. Notice is also says "he spake as a dragon" = IS that what Jesus did or will do? NO

Sorry, but YOU are the one all ready being deceived by Satan because you are attributing prophecy that speaks about Jesus/The Messiah as if it is referring to Satan. 

Yes, this is very important, and do NOT jump to defending false teaching so quickly until you have done more research. What I am saying has NOT been (nor is it being) taught in any seminary or Church, ... yet. So, make sure you do what the Bereans did and test it against the rest of Scripture. That means discarding the "assumptions" of a 7 year tribulation and everything that stems from it, including the 70th week of Daniel being about the A/C instead of Jesus. 

[Mal'ak]

1 hour ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

Does it say anywhere that the A/C is described as white = NO, only that he will deceive.

The Beast in Rev. 13 is the A/C (YES), but it does NOT say anything about being white, ONLY that he is "like" a lamb. Notice is also says "he spake as a dragon" = IS that what Jesus did or will do? NO

Sorry, but YOU are the one all ready being deceived by Satan because you are attributing prophecy that speaks about Jesus/The Messiah as if it is referring to Satan. 

Yes, this is very important, and do NOT jump to defending false teaching so quickly until you have done more research. What I am saying has NOT been (nor is it being) taught in any seminary or Church, ... yet. So, make sure you do what the Bereans did and test it against the rest of Scripture. That means discarding the "assumptions" of a 7 year tribulation and everything that stems from it, including the 70th week of Daniel being about the A/C instead of Jesus.

 

Oh so because the word "white" is not directly related to anything evil, so that means we have to dismiss all the other scripture?  Makes no sense, you just want to be right but have no scripture, simple fact is "white horse" stands for Jesus Christ.  But we are told Jesus will not come until after the tribulation and that there will be false Christs, so the first seal can not be Jesus as it describes the beginning of the tribulation and not the end.  

White: λευκός leukós, lyoo-kos'; from λύκη lýkē ("light"); white:—white.

 

If you look at Rev 6 "white" in the Greek meaning of the original text, it has a root of "light"

 

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

If you studied the connection between Jesus and lucifer, you would know they are both called "morning star", they were both the princes of heaven before the rebellion.  So there is a great deal of backstory of satan to suggest why him and his fallen angels might be considered "light".  As all the demons before the rebellion, were angels of Heaven, and so too were angels of light dressed in white.

[DonkeySpeaksAgain]

53 minutes ago, Mal'ak said:

 

Oh so because the word "white" is not directly related to anything evil, so that means we have to dismiss all the other scripture?  Makes no sense, you just want to be right but have no scripture, simple fact is "white horse" stands for Jesus Christ.  But we are told Jesus will not come until after the tribulation and that there will be false Christs, so the first seal can not be Jesus as it describes the beginning of the tribulation and not the end.  

White: λευκός leukós, lyoo-kos'; from λύκη lýkē ("light"); white:—white.

 

If you look at Rev 6 "white" in the Greek meaning of the original text, it has a root of "light"

 

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 

If you studied the connection between Jesus and lucifer, you would know they are both called "morning star", they were both the princes of heaven before the rebellion.  So there is a great deal of backstory of satan to suggest why him and his fallen angels might be considered "light".  As all the demons before the rebellion, were angels of Heaven, and so too were angels of light dressed in white.

That is all you have for proof. The root of the word may be the same, but we are talking about two different words.

I have proven the tribulation is only 3.5 years (NOT 7). I have proven the "so-called proof" of the 7 year tribulation is based on faulty calculations.

No one has shown other Scripture proving a 7 year tribulation other than Dan. 9:27. It is NOT there, because there is NO 7 year tribulation. Your interpretations based on this false teaching will ALWAYS lead to error.

I have proven how Rev. proves the 1st seal was opened in the 1st century based on the accolades given to Jesus at the various points along the prophecy time line. It proves the assumption you are making about the seals being attached to the tribulation and the A/C are NOT based on Scripture, but rather on personal opinion and false teachings. You have accepted these and refuse to go back and verify that the basic assumptions are even correct. Your "facts" are man-made assumptions!