Jump to content
IGNORED

There are two different horse Riders of Revelation.


R. Hartono

Recommended Posts


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  764
  • Topics Per Day:  0.34
  • Content Count:  6,899
  • Content Per Day:  3.09
  • Reputation:   1,977
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  02/15/2018
  • Status:  Offline

There are two white horse riders in the book of Revelation, one on earth, another one is in heaven.

Lets look at the first white horse rider, what exactly he does on earth ? conquering the world.

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a BOW; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Bow without arrows is the symbol of peace making. Jesus did not come as peace maker to conquer nations 2000 years ago, He had came to conquer death already and His second coming will be followed by the peaceful Millennium, not by the destructive force of the 2nd-7th Seal.

While Antichrist will come to conquer the world with peace, especially the 7 years covenant between Daniel's people/ Israel-Arabs which has never happened since it has been prophesied

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

THE WORLD WILL BE BROUGHT TO A GOLDEN ERA OF PEACE BY THIS HORSE RIDER OF THE 1ST SEAL BECAUSE THE DEVIL WILL STOP ALL THE WARS IT IS MAKING. AND THE WORLD WILL BE AMAZED. but :

1 Thessalonians 5:3- For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.

The 1st seal horse rider only brings a short time of peace to deceive the world and that's when the world says "Peace and Safety" every where then suddenly out of the people's expectation the 2nd-7th seal shall be opened and horrors will be unceasingly unleashed as peace is removed from earth until billions perished.

Thats the reason why Paul wrote that sudden destruction comes when they say "Peace and Safety" then peace is removed unexpectedly :

Rev 6:4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

SOME PEOPLE SAY THE FIRST SEAL IS JESUS WINNING PEOPLE, Why would God hide Evangelism to nations with a seal ? Everybody knows already that Jesus win people from the start even before John received the Revelation, no need for Evangelism to be hidden with the seals. These seals are hiding secret things in the end of days.

John wept because nobody on earth or in heaven could open the seals, why is that ? Because nobody is worthy to open the secret of end times ! John wouldn't weep for something he already knew if the first seal is Jesus winning people !

NOW LETS LOOK AT THE 2ND WHITE HORSE RIDER IN HEAVEN, THIS IS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST WITH ALL THE CHARACTERS NOT FOUND AT THE FIRST HORSE.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns.16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

THIS HORSE RIDER IS THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, HE HAS MANY CROWNS, NOT ONLY ONE LIKE THE 1ST SEAL RIDER. WHO ELSE BUT JESUS READY TO GO TO ARMAGEDDON BATTLE WITH THIS SAINTS AFTER THE MARRIAGE FEAST OF THE LAMB.

Rev 19: 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.14 The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. “He will rule them with an iron scepter.”

He will rule the nations with iron scepter means Jesus 2nd coming will take over the world from the devil and to begin His Millennium.

 

ac horse.jpg

2nd.jpg

Edited by R. Hartono
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  4,042
  • Content Per Day:  1.41
  • Reputation:   546
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/01/2016
  • Status:  Offline

On 2/1/2019 at 5:30 AM, R. Hartono said:

Daniel 8:25 ...and by peace shall destroy many

Especially the 7 years peace agreement between Israel-Arabs which has never happened since it has been prophesied

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

THE WORLD WILL BE BROUGHT TO A NEW ERA OF PEACE BECAUSE THE DEVIL WILL STOP ALL THE WARS.

1 Thessalonians 5:3- For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.

The 1st seal opening will bring a short time of peace for the world and then the 2nd seal shall be opened and horrors will be unceasingly unleashed.

I think people miss who the MANY is......

Dan. 8:24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy MANY: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Dan. 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with MANY for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

So who are THE MANY ? We know who the Holy people are, that's obvious. Well Daniel 11:40-43 tells us who the MANY are !!

Dan. 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north (Anti-Christ/Little Horn) shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.

41 He shall enter also into the glorious land,(Israel) AND many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. (Southern Jordan today, or the Petra and Bozrah areas where Israel ESCAPE to and God protects them for 1260 days. Amen)

42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

So the Anti-Christ/Little Horn Conquers Israel and THE MANY in the Mediterranean Sea Region, thus he's a Beast of the WHOLE REGION just like all the other 6 Beasts Heads were. The strange thing is, these AGREEMENTS are already in place, Satan is just waiting on the Rapture to release his Beast. We know this by reading a Wikipedia Article on the European Neighborhood Policy. And they have SEVEN YEAR AGREEMENTS in place now !! 

(Per Wikipedia) The European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP) is a foreign relations instrument of the European Union (EU) which seeks to tie those countries to the east and south of the European territory of the EU to the Union. These countries, primarily developing countries, include some who seek to one day become either a member state of the European Union, or more closely integrated with the European Union. 

The countries covered include Algeria, Morocco, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Lebanon, Libya, Palestine, Syria, Tunisia in the South (THE MANY). The EU offers financial assistance to countries within the European Neighbourhood, so long as they meet the strict conditions of government reform, economic reform and other issues surrounding positive transformation. This process is normally underpinned by an Action Plan, as agreed by both Brussels and the target country. 

The EU typically concludes Association Agreements in exchange for commitments to political, economic, trade, or human rights reform in a country. In exchange, the country may be offered tariff-free access to some or all EU markets (industrial goods, agricultural products, etc.), and financial or technical assistance.

The European Union's European Neighbourhood Policy (ENP) aims at bringing Europe and its neighbours closer. It was conceived after the 2004 enlargement of the European Union with 10 new member countries, in order to avoid creating new borders in Europe. It is also designed to prevent the emergence of new dividing lines between the enlarged EU and its neighbours. The vision is that of a ring of countries, drawn into further integration, but without necessarily becoming full members of the European Union. The policy was first outlined by the European Commission in March 2003.

On 25 May 2011, the European Commission launched what it described as a new and ambitious European Neighbourhood Policy, backed by more than €1.2 billion in new funding, bringing the total to almost €7 billion. The main priorities and directions of a revitalised ENP strategy are set out in the Joint Communication by the European Commission and the High Representative for Foreign Affairs, titled "A new response to a changing Neighbourhood". It seeks to strengthen individual and regional relationships between the EU and countries in its neighbourhood through a "more funds for more reform" approach – making more additional funds available, but with more mutual accountability.

In the South the first comprehensive policy for the region was the Euro-Mediterranean Partnership (or Barcelona Process) a wide framework of political, economic and social relations between member states of the EU and countries of the Southern Mediterranean. It was initiated on 27–28 November 1995 through a conference of Ministers of Foreign Affairs, held in Barcelona. Besides the 28 member states of the European Union, the remaining "Mediterranean Partners" are all other Mediterranean countries including Libya (which had 'observer status' from 1999 to 2012).

Funding the policy: from ENPI to ENI (Carrot and the Stick and "7 year Agreements", Name changes from European Neighborhood Policy Instrument to European Neighborhood Instrument.)

Giving incentives and rewarding best performers, as well as offering funds in a faster and more flexible manner, are the two main principles underlying the European Neighbourhood Instrument (ENI) that came into force in 2014.[3] It has a budget of €15.4 billion and provides the bulk of funding through a number of programmes. The ENI, effective from 2014 to 2020 (7 YEARS), replaces the European Neighbourhood and Partnership Instrument – known as the ENPI. This cooperation instrument continues to be managed by DG Development and Cooperation - EuropeAid, which turns decisions taken on a political level into actions on the ground. ENPI funding approved for the period 2007-2013 (7 YEARS) was €11.2 billion.

So this Little Horn/Anti-Christ or European Beast not only enters into AGREEMENTS (7 YEAR Covenant)) with Israel, but with MANY [Nations] in the Mediterranean Sea  Region !! The Beast's were all Beasts over not only Israel but all were over the Mediterranean Sea Region from Egypt to Babylon to Rome, including of course Assyria, Persia and Greece, the coming Anti-Christ will of course be the 7th Beast Head. 

Notice these two illustrations/Maps, the Old Roman Empire FOOTPRINT is exactly the same as a Map with these Nations added in via the ENPI. 

Old Roman Empire Map Below

219035102_roman_empire(1).png.3a6678265e49f1f5f9eb737ff039c714.png

European Neighborhood Policy Instrument Map Below

css-analysis-96-european-neighbourhood.jpg.ae8b0d8c84cc87db13baaefa42b41e47.jpg

With these additional countries to the south, the European Union suddenly looks EXACTLY LIKE the Old Roman Empire comparing the two Maps thus the Little Horn and 10 Kings come out of the Head of the Fourth Beast, but it is not the Fourth Beast !! They have 7 Year Agreements in place as we speak, this way at the Rapture the Anti-Christ will already have his BASIC FRAMEWORK in place !! The E.U. has the CARROT and STICK in place, so when the Anti-Christ come to power and the Rapture happens he will use this ENTANGLEMENT to CONFIRM or FORCE his Agreements on these MANY Nations including Israel (Kind of like Trump is redoing, justly so, our trade deals). then after 3.5 years he will of course RENEGE on these Agreements and Conquer Israel and the MANY [Nations] just as Dan. 11:40-43 says. BOOM !!

 

Edited by Revelation Man
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  5
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  269
  • Content Per Day:  0.14
  • Reputation:   33
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/15/2019
  • Status:  Offline

9 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

There are two white horses in the book of Revelation, one on earth, another one is in heaven.

Lets look at the first white horse rider, what exactly he does on earth ? conquering the world :

Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a BOW; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Bow without arrows is the symbol of peace making.

Daniel 8:25 ...and by peace shall destroy many

Especially the 7 years peace agreement between Israel-Arabs which has never happened since it has been prophesied

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

THE WORLD WILL BE BROUGHT TO A NEW ERA OF PEACE BECAUSE THE DEVIL WILL STOP ALL THE WARS.

1 Thessalonians 5:3- For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.

The 1st seal opening will bring a short time of peace for the world and then the 2nd seal shall be opened and horrors will be unceasingly unleashed.

 

NOW LETS LOOK AT THE 2ND HORSE IN HEAVEN, THIS IS ABOUT JESUS CHRIST WITH ALL THE CHARACTERS NOT FOUND AT THE FIRST HORSE.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King of Kings, and Lord of Lords.

THIS HORSE IS OBVIOUSLY JESUS READY TO GO TO ARMAGEDDON BATTLE WITH THIS SAINTS AFTER THE MARRIAGE FEAST OF THE LAMB.

Rev 19: 7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

 

Rev. 1:1 "the revelation of Jesus Christ...  to show unto his servants things which MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS." 

The book of Revelation is THE PROPHETIC BOOK for the ENTIRE Church Age, which began in the first century! 

Making Rev. 6 about the A/C means the Church Age is all ready over by that point. Thus rendering the rest of the book meaningless to the raptured Church. However, correctly seeing that this points to the entry of the HOLY SPIRIT (also coming out of heaven by the way) will make sense to anyone who actually looks closely at all the Biblical details surrounding this event.

The first three chapters outline the "Church" as a unit and how it "evolves" and progresses from the first century all the way to the rapture and 2nd coming. However, now nearly 2000 years have passed with ONLY information regarding the Church and NOTHING about what is happening around the world?Remember, the Gospel is ALL ready "global" before the 'end-times' events begin to unfold. Where else do we see prophecy concerning the last 2000 years? Chapters 4 & 5 are a NEW/ SEPARATE vision taking us back to the START of the Church (the midpoint of the 69th week - the cross and resurrection). We see four (count them = 4) "beasts" in heaven around the throne and 4 beasts "released" in the first four seals. We see 7 lamps (representing the 7 churches) appearing after the "lightnings, thunderings, and voices" (representing a time when God is supernaturally interacting with events on earth. These beasts are also seen in Ezek 1:5-11 (time of the OT BEFORE the cross), but they are connected together. In the NT they are released to go in four different directions. This too is shown in Zech 6: 1-5. Chapter 5 tells us God is holding a "sealed scroll" (unrevealed prophecy) that no one can open. No one was found "worthy" to open the seals? But wait, Jesus has conquered - BUT WHEN DID JESUS CONQUER? Of course in the first century! And that is when these seals are opened. The Jews are still blinded and will remain so UNTIL the final seal is removed - just like it is portrayed in Daniel. Also, what is heard in association with this event... "blessing, honour, glory and power" is given to the one "sitting" on the throne. Notice there are only 4 things given. This will increase at different key points on the prophecy outline when even more "honors" are bestowed upon Jesus. What is added LATER are "riches, wisdom, and strength" (raptured Church, 1st resurrection, 2nd coming).

The "bow" w/o arrows means making/offering peace. CORRECT!  Arrows have Biblical references to judgment, but Psalms 7:8-12 tells us who is the one being given "a bent bow with no arrows". 

Psalms 7: (refers to Jesus)

8 The Lord shall judge the people: judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

12 If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.

Jesus came first to establish righteousness, and later, at His coming, He will bring a sword to judge.

Also, a "CROWN" is given this rider...

This too points to Jesus  being given "glory and honor" as per Psalms 8:5 

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;

The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

And the conquering and going forth to conquer is also obviously attached to the majority of the NT and the 7 letters to Christians as a very Jesus thing. The words "overcome and conquer" are the exact same word in the original language.

Finally, the "white" horse. I challenge you to find anything else in the Bible (of any significance) that is white and referring to something that is NOT holy or pure. 

Zech 9:10 "And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."

Who is cut-off and who is speaking peace to the heathen, and whose dominion shall encompass the whole earth? Jesus! 

No assumptions on any of this. Solid Biblical evidence that the white horse rider is Jesus/Holy Spirit going out into the world at the start of the Church Age.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  4,042
  • Content Per Day:  1.41
  • Reputation:   546
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/01/2016
  • Status:  Offline

2 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

Rev. 1:1 "the revelation of Jesus Christ...  to show unto his servants things which MUST SHORTLY COME TO PASS." 

 

So your whole Eschatology is shaped/formed by a TRANSLATION of English men 400 years ago (KJV 1611) and you are trusting they got everything perfect instead of researching this for yourself ? I can prove via the verse you just cited that it doesn't mean "SHORTLY" via the original Greek writing. It means this, at a FUTURE POINT IN TIME...........I WILL COME SPEEDILY/QUICKLY. 

Rev. 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Now to my 1611 KJV site that has all the Greek ROOT WORDS incorporated into the verses and the Strong "Greek" numbers. 

 Rev 1:1 ¶ The Reuelation 602 of Iesus 2424 Christ, 5547 which 3739 God 2316 gaue 1325 z5656 vnto him, 846 to shewe 1166 z5658 vnto his y846 x848 seruants 1401 things which 3739 must 1163 z5748 shortly 1722 5034 come to passe; 1096 z5635 and 2532 he sent 649 z5660 and signified 4591 z5656 [it] by 1223 his y846 x848 Angel 32 vnto his y846 x848 seruant 1401 Iohn, 2491

Notice there are TWO NUMBERS behind the word SHORTLY ? Lets run it down to see what they mean.

1722 the Greek word EN..............#1722 ἐν en {en} a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state)

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality(medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); "in", at, (up-) on, by, etc.:

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-5034 the Greek word TACHOS...............#5034 τάχος tachos {takh'-os} from the same as G5036; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickness, speed

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:— + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

So lets digest what this REALLY MEANS instead of what the English Translators said it meant 400 years ago. 

The word TACHOS is where we get the english word TACHOMETER from, ZOOM, ZOOM, ZOOM. 

So, we now see what SHORTLY come to pass really means. 

EN means at a fixed point in time, Jesus doesn't know the DAY nor the HOUR so this word fits perfectly, Jesus points at that at a FIXED POINT IN TIME in the future, (a day he knows not) the Father will send him and he wIll come (TACHOS) IN HASTE or SPEEDILY, or in a SHORT TIME FRAME. Zoom, zoom, zoom.

So if you build your whole Eschatology around the fact that Jesus was to return SOON you will indeed be going by a false assumption brother.

We really need to understand that the KJV Translators need to be CHECKED via them being correct. Amen, we have Computers, they didn't. 

 

 

Edited by Revelation Man
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  5
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  269
  • Content Per Day:  0.14
  • Reputation:   33
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/15/2019
  • Status:  Offline

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

So your whole Eschatology is shaped/formed by a TRANSLATION of English men 400 years ago (KJV 1611) and you are trusting they got everything perfect instead of researching this for yourself ? I can prove via the verse you just cited that it doesn't mean "SHORTLY" via the original Greek writing. It means this, at a FUTURE POINT IN TIME...........I WILL COME SPEEDILY/QUICKLY. 

Rev. 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Now to my 1611 KJV site that has all the Greek ROOT WORDS incorporated into the verses and the Strong "Greek" numbers. 

 Rev 1:1 ¶ The Reuelation 602 of Iesus 2424 Christ, 5547 which 3739 God 2316 gaue 1325 z5656 vnto him, 846 to shewe 1166 z5658 vnto his y846 x848 seruants 1401 things which 3739 must 1163 z5748 shortly 1722 5034 come to passe; 1096 z5635 and 2532 he sent 649 z5660 and signified 4591 z5656 [it] by 1223 his y846 x848 Angel 32 vnto his y846 x848 seruant 1401 Iohn, 2491

Notice there are TWO NUMBERS behind the word SHORTLY ? Lets run it down to see what they mean.

1722 the Greek word EN..............#1722 ἐν en {en} a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state)

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

A primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time or state), and (by implication) instrumentality(medially or constructively), that is, a relation of rest (intermediate between G1519 and G1537); "in", at, (up-) on, by, etc.:

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-5034 the Greek word TACHOS...............#5034 τάχος tachos {takh'-os} from the same as G5036; TDNT - n/a; n n

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) quickness, speed

—Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

From the same as G5036; a brief space (of time), that is, (with G1722 prefixed) in haste:— + quickly, + shortly, + speedily.

—Strong's (Greek Dictionary of the New Testament)

So lets digest what this REALLY MEANS instead of what the English Translators said it meant 400 years ago. 

The word TACHOS is where we get the english word TACHOMETER from, ZOOM, ZOOM, ZOOM. 

So, we now see what SHORTLY come to pass really means. 

EN means at a fixed point in time, Jesus doesn't know the DAY nor the HOUR so this word fits perfectly, Jesus points at that at a FIXED POINT IN TIME in the future, (a day he knows not) the Father will send him and he wIll come (TACHOS) IN HASTE or SPEEDILY, or in a SHORT TIME FRAME. Zoom, zoom, zoom.

So if you build your whole Eschatology around the fact that Jesus was to return SOON you will indeed be going by a false assumption brother.

We really need to understand that the KJV Translators need to be CHECKED via them being correct. Amen, we have Computers, they didn't. 

 

 

Not convinced. Per your own analysis, it says... "fixed quickly" which sounds closer to shortly than it does "some future point when He arrives quickly". Sounds like you are adding a lot of extra stuff in there to fit your own theories. Scriptures often use the phrase "fixed" or "appointed time". And that makes sense here that the appointed time is being fulfilled.

The point is NOT that I was saying Jesus returned in the first century ( If you actually read the post you will see that I NEVER said that)- I was saying that the Holy Spirit came into the world and the Church Age began in the first century. 

I also do NOT see any Bible version translated the way you are saying, even the NEWEST versions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  12
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  4,042
  • Content Per Day:  1.41
  • Reputation:   546
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  06/01/2016
  • Status:  Offline

On 2/2/2019 at 10:17 PM, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

Not convinced. Per your own analysis, it says... "fixed quickly" which sounds closer to shortly than it does "some future point when He arrives quickly". Sounds like you are adding a lot of extra stuff in there to fit your own theories. Scriptures often use the phrase "fixed" or "appointed time". And that makes sense here that the appointed time is being fulfilled.

The point is NOT that I was saying Jesus returned in the first century ( If you actually read the post you will see that I NEVER said that)- I was saying that the Holy Spirit came into the world and the Church Age began in the first century. 

I also do NOT see any Bible version translated the way you are saying, even the NEWEST versions.

EN = A FIXED POINT IN TIME...............TACHOS = IN HASTE, SPEEDILY. Its not that hard to understand brother, and it fits scriptures that say Jesus does not know the day nor the hour that he is to be sent back, so naturally he would have to say, EN (at a fixed point in time) I will TACHOS (Return in Haste). 

Nowhere do I say FIXED QUICKLY.............FIXED POINT IN TIME means at a certain time in the future that only the Father knows. If my Dad had a plan to take my family on a vacation in the future, and he knew the exact date but wouldn't tell us, I could only describe the coming vacation as at a FIXED POINT IN TIME or at a predetermined date only my dad knows. 

No one said anything about FIXED QUICKLY. 

What it sounds like is you don't want to admit what the Greek actually says because you went down the wrong road following the KJV Translators. 

It is what it is brother. Read the Greek, and make sure its translated properly, it is our duty as Christians to be factual. 

Edited by Revelation Man
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Royal Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  764
  • Topics Per Day:  0.34
  • Content Count:  6,899
  • Content Per Day:  3.09
  • Reputation:   1,977
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  02/15/2018
  • Status:  Offline

7 hours ago, DonkeySpeaksAgain said:

The book of Revelation is THE PROPHETIC BOOK for the ENTIRE Church Age, which began in the first century! 

Making Rev. 6 about the A/C means the Church Age is all ready over by that point.

 

The Revelation is about the final 70th week of Daniel which is the final week = 7 years of great tribulation.

http://christinprophecy.org/wp-content/uploads/chart_Daniels70Weeks.jpg

http://www.armageddonbooks.com/tribmap.jpg

Rev 6 seals have not been opened because the Holy Spirit and the church is still here, which restrains the antichrist.

When the 4th seal is opened 1/4 of the world will die, we havent seen this happened as the world is relatively in peace nowadays.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

And we havent seen the 3rd seal opened because Economy of the world is still relatively good.

And we havent seen people killing each other unceasingly as brought by the 2nd seal.

Edited by R. Hartono
Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  5
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  269
  • Content Per Day:  0.14
  • Reputation:   33
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/15/2019
  • Status:  Offline

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

EN = A FIXED POINT IN TIME...............TACHOS = IN HASTE, SPEEDILY. Its not that hard to understand brother, and it fits scriptures that say Jesus does not know the day nor the hour that he is to be sent back, so naturally he would have to say, EN (at a fixed point in time) I will TACHOS (Return in Haste). 

Nowhere do I say FIXED QUICKLY.............FIXED POINT IN TIME means and a certain time in the future that only the Father knows. If my Dad had a plan to take my family on a vacation in the future, and he knew the exact date but wouldn't tell us, I could only describe the coming vacation as at a FIXED POINT IN TIME or at a predetermined dae only my dad knows. 

Np one said anything about FIXED QUICKLY. 

What it sounds like is you don't want to admit what the Greek actually says because you went down the wrong road following the KJV Translators. 

It is what it is brother. Read the Greek, and make sure its translated properly, it is our duty as Christians to be factual. 

5

I see, you change what I said and in the meantime completely ignore what was said. NO where did I say the first seal is the 2nd coming. You are the one saying that. So you are arguing against yourself!

The "appointed time" refers to the FIRST COMING and the start of the Church Age AND it happens in the first century.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Diamond Member
  • Followers:  8
  • Topic Count:  14
  • Topics Per Day:  0.01
  • Content Count:  1,979
  • Content Per Day:  1.00
  • Reputation:   2,112
  • Days Won:  1
  • Joined:  10/23/2018
  • Status:  Offline

On 2/1/2019 at 1:30 AM, R. Hartono said:

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

May I also add the word confirm in the Hebrew is augment or increase, ...interesting, the Holy Spirit through Daniel tells us there will already be a peace plan when he comes to power and the rest of the verse is telling us he will add to it the right for Israel to rebuild their temple so that he can go into it and declare himself god, ...the abomination that makes desolate.

On a side note, ...he doesn't go into the Dome of the Rock to profess himself god!

Lord bless

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Group:  Advanced Member
  • Followers:  0
  • Topic Count:  5
  • Topics Per Day:  0.00
  • Content Count:  269
  • Content Per Day:  0.14
  • Reputation:   33
  • Days Won:  0
  • Joined:  01/15/2019
  • Status:  Offline

13 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

The Revelation is about the final 70th week of Daniel which is the final week = 7 years of great tribulation.

http://christinprophecy.org/wp-content/uploads/chart_Daniels70Weeks.jpg

http://www.armageddonbooks.com/tribmap.jpg

Rev 6 seals have not been opened because the Holy Spirit and the church is still here, which restrains the antichrist.

When the 4th seal is opened 1/4 of the world will die, we havent seen this happened as the world is relatively in peace nowadays.

Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

And we havent seen the 3rd seal opened because Economy of the world is still relatively good.

And we havent seen people killing each other unceasingly as brought by the 2nd seal.

Again, when does the 69th week end? SHOW YOUR WORK. You avoid the main debate by using a FALSE teaching of an unfulfilled 70th week, then using that to misinterpret the rest of prophecy.

Your challenge is simple... prove the 69th week ends at the cross - then you can make all those assumptions about Rev. 

I have shown how the 69th week ends at the baptism and so far NO ONE Has shown how it contradicts the Bible or history. 

 

The A/C is restrained, but the seals have NOTHING to do with the A/C on my outline, so you have to prove your assumptions by FIRST showing the 69th week ends at the cross.

Chapters 4 & 5 are a NEW/ SEPARATE vision taking us back to the START of the Church (the midpoint of the 69th week - the cross and resurrection). We see four (count them = 4) "beasts" in heaven around the throne and 4 beasts "released" in the first four seals. We see 7 lamps (representing the 7 churches) appearing after the "lightnings, thunderings, and voices" (representing a time when God is supernaturally interacting with events on earth. These beasts are also seen in Ezek 1:5-11 (time of the OT BEFORE the cross), but they are connected together. In the NT they are released to go in four different directions. This too is shown in Zech 6: 1-5. Chapter 5 tells us God is holding a "sealed scroll" (unrevealed prophecy) that no one can open. No one was found "worthy" to open the seals? But wait, Jesus has conquered - BUT WHEN DID JESUS CONQUER? Of course in the first century! And that is when these seals are opened. The Jews are still blinded and will remain so UNTIL the final seal is removed - just like it is portrayed in Daniel. Also, what is heard in association with this event... "blessing, honour, glory and power" is given to the one "sitting" on the throne. Notice there are only 4 things given. This will increase at different key points on the prophecy outline when even more "honors" are bestowed upon Jesus. What is added LATER are "riches, wisdom, and strength" (raptured Church, 1st resurrection, 2nd coming).

The "bow" w/o arrows means making/offering peace. CORRECT!  Arrows have Biblical references to judgment, but Psalms 7:8-12 tells us who is the one being given "a bent bow with no arrows". 

Psalms 7: (refers to Jesus)

8 The Lord shall judge the people: judge me, O Lord, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.

Oh let the wickedness of the wicked come to an end; but establish the just: for the righteous God trieth the hearts and reins.

10 My defence is of God, which saveth the upright in heart.

11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.

12 If he turn not, he will whet his sword; he hath bent his bow, and made it ready.

Jesus came first to establish righteousness, and later, at His coming, He will bring a sword to judge.

Also, a "CROWN" is given this rider...

This too points to Jesus  being given "glory and honor" as per Psalms 8:5 

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;

The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas.

And the conquering and going forth to conquer is also obviously attached to the majority of the NT and the 7 letters to Christians as a very Jesus thing. The words "overcome and conquer" are the exact same word in the original language.

Finally, the "white" horse. I challenge you to find anything else in the Bible (of any significance) that is white and referring to something that is NOT holy or pure. 

Zech 9:10 "And I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim, and the horse from Jerusalem, and the battle bow shall be cut off: and he shall speak peace unto the heathen: and his dominion shall be from sea even to sea, and from the river even to the ends of the earth."

Who is cut-off and who is speaking peace to the heathen, and whose dominion shall encompass the whole earth? Jesus! 

No assumptions on any of this. Solid Biblical evidence that the white horse rider is Jesus/Holy Spirit going out into the world at the start of the Church Age.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...