Unveiling Bible Truth Posted March 5, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 18 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 7 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/04/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted March 5, 2019 On 2/12/2019 at 9:13 PM, Behold said: 2 things we know Hell isn't. It isn't a myth, and it isn't the Lake Of Fire. Yeshua actually spoke more about Hell then He spoke about Heaven. Jesus never spoke about hell at all, he spoke about Gehenna, which is not a place of eternal torment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnthebaptist Posted April 1, 2019 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 6 Topic Count: 118 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 4,361 Content Per Day: 2.32 Reputation: 2,109 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2019 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/03/1953 Share Posted April 1, 2019 On 2/12/2019 at 2:47 PM, DarrenJClark said: There are three main views of hell in Evangelicalism. There is the view that God will punish the wicked in hell forever (I will call this the eternal conscious punishment, or ECP view), there is the view that when God punishes the wicked in hell it will destroy or kill them (I will call this conditional immortality, or CI), and there is the view that God will refine the wicked in hell so as to ensure all are purified and eventually saved (I will call this purgatorial universal reconciliation, or PUR). This by no means a comprehensive descriptions of these views of hell. I am a conditionalist. I am wondering if people would please identify which view of hell they currently follow and list the single strongest argument for that view. I like to talk about how and why people hold to the doctrines they do rather than simply argue with them so I hope I can learn something new about these various views on hell. Thankyou. Hell, I believe, is experiencing the inescapable results of our sin. For example, if I rob a bank, I go to prison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaacsname Posted April 1, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2019 Hades = not knowing darkness = spiritual ignorance Seems clear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 1, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Isaacsname said: Hades = not knowing darkness = spiritual ignorance Seems clear Where do you find the definition for Hades to mean not knowing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaacsname Posted April 1, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2019 4 hours ago, OneLight said: Where do you find the definition for Hades to mean not knowing? Hades is written in Greek by taking the word for " seeing / knowing / understanding / perceiving " and using the letter alpha as the negative particle It explains this in the Strong's concordance, iirc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xethea Posted April 1, 2019 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 262 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 57 Days Won: 0 Joined: 02/25/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2019 On 2/12/2019 at 5:47 PM, DarrenJClark said: There are three main views of hell in Evangelicalism. There is the view that God will punish the wicked in hell forever (I will call this the eternal conscious punishment, or ECP view), there is the view that when God punishes the wicked in hell it will destroy or kill them (I will call this conditional immortality, or CI), and there is the view that God will refine the wicked in hell so as to ensure all are purified and eventually saved (I will call this purgatorial universal reconciliation, or PUR). This by no means a comprehensive descriptions of these views of hell. I am a conditionalist. I am wondering if people would please identify which view of hell they currently follow and list the single strongest argument for that view. I like to talk about how and why people hold to the doctrines they do rather than simply argue with them so I hope I can learn something new about these various views on hell. Thankyou. Hell is a place for spiritual torture, basically. A place God set for those evil ones like Satan and demons who betrayed God in Heaven. Unbelievers/unsaved sinners will also be there when their time on earth is finished. Spirits never, ever end. We are born with dead spirits, yet, they exist. It's not the same as a dead body, as if when it dies, it vanishes completely with no trace of it. There is still a way to trace a dead spirit. God is a spirit, He is forever. He has made us like Him, once we exist, we exist for an eternity. Now, is our time that will decide where we will move onto next for eternity. I believe Hell/Lake of Fire/Hades/Sheol in a basic way, is that it is only place God stays out of and away from, and the real torture isn't simply fire or lava, I think that would just give us somewhat an idea of the pain to imagine we would be in- but I believe it is God's wrath He has for sin, that will be unleashed at the max that He has been holding back from us on this earth. Sin deserves punishment to the max. What is a greater punishment than God's righteous power of His wrath? I have touched fire, sure it hurt pretty dang bad. My back has been burned up before and I went to the hospital, but I think God's wrath and Hell will be much worse than what fire can do to us. Plus, our bodies will be left here, saved or unsaved, we don't move on in our bodies we have now. So this is a spiritual torture, not physical as far as I understand, or else God would provide more bodies for the unsaved. But scripture doesn't say that for the unsaved. The dumbest things I've heard about Hell, is that Jesus went there, the demons were jumping up and down on His back saying Ha ha, you're in Hell! Another one is that a place is where evil unsaved people get to enjoy living their way in hell with sex, games, disco parties, etc while we live our boring simplistic lives in Heaven- but obviously that is absurd. I also heard hell is a freezing cold place, not hot. Please, don't tell us you actually believe anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 1, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, Isaacsname said: Hades is written in Greek by taking the word for " seeing / knowing / understanding / perceiving " and using the letter alpha as the negative particle It explains this in the Strong's concordance, iirc Yes, G86, but it shows me a different meaning than just "seeing, knowing, understanding and/or perceiving ". For the most part, it means a region of departed spirits of the lost (Luke 16:23). Jesus Himself spoke about Hades in three places (Matthew 11:23 [with Luke 10:15]; 16:18; Luke 16:23. Tow of these deal with Capernaum and the Church. The third deals with the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, which supports the Jewish idea of two compartments in Hades. All three deal with a place, not of any sort of understanding or seeing. You can also reference Acts 2:27, 31; 1 Corinthians 15:55; Revelation 1:18; 6:8; 20:13, 14, all pointing to a place. I see you like to dig deep in your studies. May I suggest you pick up The Complete Word Study Dictionary New Testament ISBN 0-89957-663-X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaacsname Posted April 1, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2019 here's the uses I see listed 1492 eídō (oida) – properly, to see with physical eyes (cf. Ro 1:11), as it naturally bridges to the metaphorical sense: perceiving ("mentally seeing"). This is akin to the expressions: "I see what You mean"; "I see what you are saying." 1492 /eídō ("seeing that becomes knowing") then is a gateway to grasp spiritual truth (reality) from a physical plane. 1492 (eídō) then is physical seeing (sight) which should be the constant bridge to mental and spiritual seeing (comprehension). ειδω eido {i-do'} or οιδα oida {oy'-da} a root word; TDNT - 5:116, *; v AV - know 282, cannot tell + 3756 8, know how 7, wist 6, misc 19, see 314, behold 16, look 5, perceive 5, vr see 3, vr know 1; 666 1) to see 1a) to perceive with the eyes 1b) to perceive by any of the senses 1c) to perceive, notice, discern, discover 1d) to see 1d1) i.e. to turn the eyes, the mind, the attention to anything 1d2) to pay attention, observe 1d3) to see about something 1d31) i.e. to ascertain what must be done about it 1d4) to inspect, examine 1d5) to look at, behold 1e) to experience any state or condition 1f) to see i.e. have an interview with, to visit 2) to know 2a) to know of anything 2b) to know, i.e. get knowledge of, understand, perceive 2b1) of any fact 2b2) the force and meaning of something which has definite meaning 2b3) to know how, to be skilled in 2c) to have regard for one, cherish, pay attention to (1Th. 5:12) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted April 1, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted April 1, 2019 (edited) You are looking at1492 which is eido, which means to see, not 86 which is hades There is a difference. In Homer and Hesiod, the word is spelled Haides, meaning obscure, dark, invisible, which is used in Luke 16:23m depicting a region of departed spirits of the lost. What do you find when you look up G86? Edited April 2, 2019 by OneLight corrected mistakes in my rush to post ... sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaacsname Posted April 2, 2019 Group: Junior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 93 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 33 Days Won: 0 Joined: 10/24/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted April 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, OneLight said: You are looking at1492 which is eido, which means to see, not 86 which is hades There is a difference. In Homer and Hesiod, the word is spelled Haides, meaning obscure, dark, invisible, which is used in Luke 16:23m depicting a region of departed spirits of the lost. What do you find when you look up G86? I see it says from G1 and G1492, which is what I stated G1 is the Greek letter alpha, it serves as a negative particle when used as a prefix All online concordances say this: hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") From ἄλφα (G1) (as negative particle) and εἴδω (G1492) Edited April 2, 2019 by Isaacsname Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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