Heaven when

[Retrobyter]

On 2/14/2019 at 11:11 AM, plavious said:

Just my one little contribution to @Happy Felix question.  Many explicit verses declare that the resurrection will not occur until the end of the age when Christ returns.

In Daniel 12:13 an angel looks ahead to the resurrection as occurring at the end of the age: "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

In John 6:40 Christ declares that the resurrection will happen on the last day: "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (See also John 6:39, 44, 54).

Paul specifies this meaning even further, stating in 1 Corinthians 15:23that we will be raised at the return of Christ: "Each [will be raised] in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming."

...

Shalom, plavious.

Also, note that 1 Corinthians 15:24-25 goes on to say,

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

This is a THIRD instance of Resurrection. The first was the Messiah Himself, the "firstfruits."

The second will be when the Messiah returns, but this is talking about the Millennium, when He shall reign " till he hath put all enemies under his feet."

At "the end," there will be the final resurrection "when He shall have delivered up the Kingdom to God, even the Father."

[iamlamad]

18 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

Yeah, and I'm one of them! The U TURN theory makes perfect sense if you realize that we are talking about THREE dimensions! It's not just "up-down"; it's "up-OVER-and down!" He will be in the process of taking all of us with Him to the Middle East!

That's why I say it's more of a Mass Transit System!

By the way, we'll be PART of the pouring out of God's wrath upon those who are trying to eliminate the Jews! One need not fear God's wrath if one is His child! However, we should have the same ZEAL for Israel that the Messiah will have!

I have never agreed with you on that U turn. Still don't. We certainly should have a love for Israel.

[iamlamad]

On 2/14/2019 at 10:11 AM, plavious said:

Just my one little contribution to @Happy Felix question.  Many explicit verses declare that the resurrection will not occur until the end of the age when Christ returns.

In Daniel 12:13 an angel looks ahead to the resurrection as occurring at the end of the age: "But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age."

In John 6:40 Christ declares that the resurrection will happen on the last day: "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him, may have eternal life; and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (See also John 6:39, 44, 54).

Paul specifies this meaning even further, stating in 1 Corinthians 15:23that we will be raised at the return of Christ: "Each [will be raised] in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming."

In 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 he also looks ahead to the resurrection as something that will occur not until Christ comes back: "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and thus we shall always be with the Lord."

All Christians will be glorified together
The fact that the resurrection will happen at the return of Christ has important implications: It means that glorification will be a corporate realityand not an individual experience that happens to each believer separately at death. All Christians will be raised into glory together. While we all lived at different periods of time, we all came to faith at different times, and we all will have died at different times (except for those who lived until Christ returns), it is an amazing thing that God has planned things such that our glorification will occur at the same time. What a great encouragement it is to know that the believers of the past are waiting for us to finish the race ourselves so that we can all experience the great joy of glorification togethe

It will be the pretrib rapture that ENDS this church age. Next God will finish out the 70 weeks (of years) of Jewish and Hebrew time: the final and 70th week. God will indeed raise up the Old Testament saints "on the last day:" the last 24 hours of the 70th week: which will be the day the 7th vial is poured out.  It is NOT the day of His return. 

From thousands of years ago, in Daniel's time, it was enough to say "end of the age." But when John wrote, God revealed much more: there are waves of resurrection: Jesus first, the church second, the 144,000 third, the Old Testament saints and 70th week martyrs fourth. Finally, after the 1000 years, the second resurrection.

Paul certainly specifies that the rapture will be AT HIS COMING; but in this coming, FOR His bride, He only comes to the air, then escorts His bride back to HIS PLACE.

Agreed: all who follow Christ are those "IN CHRIST" - dead in Christ and still alive and in Christ - and a part of the church and bride that will be raptured pretrib.  Therefore I disagree with  you.

[Retrobyter]

8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I have never agreed with you on that U turn. Still don't. We certainly should have a love for Israel.

Shalom, iamlamad.

I'm sorry that you've not been able to see it, yet, but "heaven" means the "sky"; there's no PLACE called "Heaven" (with a capital H). There is "hashaamayim" (Hebrew for "the skies" [dual])) and "shmeey hashaamayim" (Hebrew construct for the "skies of the skies," referring to space) OR there is "ouranos" (Greek for the "sky"), "ouranoi" (Greek for the "skies"), and "epouranios" (Greek for "from above the sky," also referring to space).

Even the English word "heaven" has this for its etymology:

Quote

 

"heofones," an ancient Anglo-Saxon word for heavens in the Beowulf

The modern English word heaven is derived from the earlier (Middle English) heven (attested 1159); this in turn was developed from the previous Old English form heofon. By about 1000, heofon was being used in reference to the Christianized "place where God dwells", but originally, it had signified "sky, firmament"[2] (e.g. in Beowulf, c. 725). The English term has cognates in the other Germanic languages: Old Saxon heƀan "sky, heaven" (hence also Middle Low German heven "sky"), Old Icelandic himinn, Gothic himins; and those with a variant final -l: Old Frisian himel, himul "sky, heaven", Old Saxon and Old High German himil, Old Saxon and Middle Low German hemmel, Old Dutch and Dutch hemel, and modern German Himmel. All of these have been derived from a reconstructed Proto-Germanic form *hemina-.[3] or *hemō.[4]

 

(Etymology from Wikipedia.)

There was a song I knew in college called "Finally Home." When I first learned that the word "heaven" refers to the "sky," I was tickled to hear the words of the chorus:

But just think of stepping on shore and finding it ...

h

e

a

v

e

n

!

And, drew a picture of a man stepping out of a plane without a parachute!

THAT'S "heaven!"

[iamlamad]

13 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

I'm sorry that you've not been able to see it, yet, but "heaven" means the "sky"; there's no PLACE called "Heaven" (with a capital H). There is "hashaamayim" (Hebrew for "the skies" [dual])) and "shmeey hashaamayim" (Hebrew construct for the "skies of the skies," referring to space) OR there is "ouranos" (Greek for the "sky"), "ouranoi" (Greek for the "skies"), and "epouranios" (Greek for "from above the sky," also referring to space).

Even the English word "heaven" has this for its etymology:

(Etymology from Wikipedia.)

There was a song I knew in college called "Finally Home." When I first learned that the word "heaven" refers to the "sky," I was tickled to hear the words of the chorus:

But just think of stepping on shore and finding it ...

h

e

a

v

e

n

!

And, drew a picture of a man stepping out of a plane without a parachute!

THAT'S "heaven!"

It is true that some uses of Ouranos in the KJV are for the sky, but it is JUST AS TRUE that sometimes this word is used for the place God lives: where His throne is. By now billions of saints have arrived where God lives. Most people call it heaven. The KJV calls it heaven. If that name bothers you, call it something else - just know that it is where God lives - where His throne is. I assure you, His throne is not floating on air somewhere!  It is in a huge palace. The river of life flows out of this palace. And all this is on a planet. The planet heaven is NOT IN our solar system.  How do I know it is a planet? Enough people have been then to see it and return to testify. 

I guess in your mind, Jesus will descend from the sky, and end up in the sky, call up the saints, and return to the sky. Oh, sorry, that scenario would only be for those who believe John 14.

 

[Retrobyter]

14 hours ago, iamlamad said:

It will be the pretrib rapture that ENDS this church age. Next God will finish out the 70 weeks (of years) of Jewish and Hebrew time: the final and 70th week. God will indeed raise up the Old Testament saints "on the last day:" the last 24 hours of the 70th week: which will be the day the 7th vial is poured out.  It is NOT the day of His return. 

From thousands of years ago, in Daniel's time, it was enough to say "end of the age." But when John wrote, God revealed much more: there are waves of resurrection: Jesus first, the church second, the 144,000 third, the Old Testament saints and 70th week martyrs fourth. Finally, after the 1000 years, the second resurrection.

Paul certainly specifies that the rapture will be AT HIS COMING; but in this coming, FOR His bride, He only comes to the air, then escorts His bride back to HIS PLACE.

Agreed: all who follow Christ are those "IN CHRIST" - dead in Christ and still alive and in Christ - and a part of the church and bride that will be raptured pretrib.  Therefore I disagree with  you.

Shalom, iamlamad.

Sorry, but there's no such thing in the Bible as a "church age." That was made up by theologians to explain "end of the age" for those who believed in the pretribulational rapture theory! Thus, it is a form of circular reasoning to use the phrase!

Let's look again at what Paul wrote in his "resurrection chapter," the great treatise on resurrection that Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 15:

It's somewhat masked by the verse divisions, but there are THREE resurrections that Paul mentions in verses 20 through 28:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:
(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
24 (2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Let's compare this to your statement,
"(0) Jesus first,
(1a) the church second,
(1b) the 144,000 third,
(1c) the Old Testament saints and
(1d) 70th week martyrs fourth.
(2) Finally, after the 1000 years, the second resurrection."

Second, John didn't say the 144,000 were resurrected!

Revelation 7:4-8 (KJV)

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Joseph (Ephraim) were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14:1-5 (KJV)

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion (that's Har Tsiyown or Mount Zion on earth!), and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven (a voice from the sky), as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

It is commonly assumed that the "throne of God" is in some far-off place called "Heaven," but God's throne will be WHEREVER He reigns over the lives of human beings, and at this time, it will be through His Messiah, Yeshua` the Lamb (Hebrew: haKeves, the Yearling Lamb), who is His REPRESENTATIVE King, since God, His Father, is a Spirit.

[Retrobyter]

29 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

It is true that some uses of Ouranos in the KJV are for the sky, but it is JUST AS TRUE that sometimes this word is used for the place God lives: where His throne is. By now billions of saints have arrived where God lives. Most people call it heaven. The KJV calls it heaven. If that name bothers you, call it something else - just know that it is where God lives - where His throne is. I assure you, His throne is not floating on air somewhere!  It is in a huge palace. The river of life flows out of this palace. And all this is on a planet. The planet heaven is NOT IN our solar system.  How do I know it is a planet? Enough people have been then [there] to see it and return to testify. 

I guess in your mind, Jesus will descend from the sky, and end up in the sky, call up the saints, and return to the sky. Oh, sorry, that scenario would only be for those who believe John 14.

Shalom, iamlamad.

Well, THAT'S fiction! "Enough people have been there to see it and return to testify"??? Sorry, but God's Word says, "It is appointed unto men ONCE to die, and after this the judgment!" "Have returned," my eye! They experienced some hypoxia while on an operating table, did NOT truly die, and were brought back to health, remembering their hallucinations while their brains suffered oxygen deprevation!

People in other religions have experienced similar hypoxia and reported their own versions of an afterlife that was patterned after what they believed, too. Should we believe them, as well?! Such conditions should NEVER be used for proof, particularly for believing a certain way! "Planet heaven"! What a crock! I'll stick to the Scriptures, if you don't mind.

Let's rephrase your last paragraph:

Jesus SHALL descend from the sky, and while IN the sky, He will call up the saints to the sky WITH HIM, "and so shall they ever be with the Lord" Yeshua` (Jesus). However, HE'S NOT GOING BACK! He will continue on His mission to rescue His people - His family - His relatives - the nation Israel, beginning at Botsrah in Edom!

I certainly believe in Yeshua`s words recorded in John 14, just not in YOUR version of how they should be interpreted! Watch carefully; He NEVER says that He's going or taking anybody BACK! Look:

John 14:1-3 (KJV)

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

He says "where I AM," not "where I will be!" Y'all ASSUME He means "I will take you back there," but He DOESN'T! Instead, we're told later by Yochanan (John) that the Father's house COMES HERE!

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth: for the first heaven (sky) and the first earth were passed away (LITERALLY); and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (the throne) saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle (Bedouin tent) of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

This is the same kind of Bedouin tent that Avraham lived in with his son and grandson:

Hebrews 11:8-10 (KJV)

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles (Bedouin tents) with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

This was the FIRST instance when the word "Adonay" ("Adonai") was used. The word "Adonay" means "my foundation Layer"; that is, "my Layer of a foundation." 

[iamlamad]

On 5/6/2019 at 11:27 PM, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

Well, THAT'S fiction! "Enough people have been there to see it and return to testify"??? Sorry, but God's Word says, "It is appointed unto men ONCE to die, and after this the judgment!" "Have returned," my eye! They experienced some hypoxia while on an operating table, did NOT truly die, and were brought back to health, remembering their hallucinations while their brains suffered oxygen deprevation!

People in other religions have experienced similar hypoxia and reported their own versions of an afterlife that was patterned after what they believed, too. Should we believe them, as well?! Such conditions should NEVER be used for proof, particularly for believing a certain way! "Planet heaven"! What a crock! I'll stick to the Scriptures, if you don't mind.

Let's rephrase your last paragraph:

Jesus SHALL descend from the sky, and while IN the sky, He will call up the saints to the sky WITH HIM, "and so shall they ever be with the Lord" Yeshua` (Jesus). However, HE'S NOT GOING BACK! He will continue on His mission to rescue His people - His family - His relatives - the nation Israel, beginning at Botsrah in Edom!

I certainly believe in Yeshua`s words recorded in John 14, just not in YOUR version of how they should be interpreted! Watch carefully; He NEVER says that He's going or taking anybody BACK! Look:

John 14:1-3 (KJV)

1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

He says "where I AM," not "where I will be!" Y'all ASSUME He means "I will take you back there," but He DOESN'T! Instead, we're told later by Yochanan (John) that the Father's house COMES HERE!

Revelation 21:1-3 (KJV)

1 And I saw a new heaven (sky) and a new earth: for the first heaven (sky) and the first earth were passed away (LITERALLY); and there was no more sea. 2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven (the sky), prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven (the throne) saying,

"Behold, the tabernacle (Bedouin tent) of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."

This is the same kind of Bedouin tent that Avraham lived in with his son and grandson:

Hebrews 11:8-10 (KJV)

8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles (Bedouin tents) with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

This was the FIRST instance when the word "Adonay" ("Adonai") was used. The word "Adonay" means "my foundation Layer"; that is, "my Layer of a foundation." 

Hmm. God is a God of exceptions. How about Lazarus, Jesus' friend. It seems he died TWICE.  Indeed, just in the last 20 or 30 years many believers have died and came back to life. For example, I know one man, Gary Wood, that died in a car crash, went to heaven, but had to return to His body - His sister would not let him die - she prayed him back to his body. This happens more than you know. Should we just dismiss these testimonies? Why - if they don't disagree with the word of God? 

If the rapture is pretrib, and it IS, then Jesus MUST take us back to the homes prepared (Exactly what John 14 says) because He remains in heaven during Revelation chapters 6 through 19. He returns only in chapter 19. Just so you know, that covers the entire 70th week of Daniel.  In your theory He prepares abodes, but then does not take us to them. I don't think so! In Jesus day, the groom went to prepare a place, then went to retrieve his bride, and brought her to the place he had prepared. 

Edited May 12, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, iamlamad.

Sorry, but there's no such thing in the Bible as a "church age." That was made up by theologians to explain "end of the age" for those who believed in the pretribulational rapture theory! Thus, it is a form of circular reasoning to use the phrase!

Let's look again at what Paul wrote in his "resurrection chapter," the great treatise on resurrection that Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 15:

It's somewhat masked by the verse divisions, but there are THREE resurrections that Paul mentions in verses 20 through 28:

1 Corinthians 15:20-28 (KJV)

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order:
(0) Christ the firstfruits;
(1) afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 
24 (2) Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Let's compare this to your statement,
"(0) Jesus first,
(1a) the church second,
(1b) the 144,000 third,
(1c) the Old Testament saints and
(1d) 70th week martyrs fourth.
(2) Finally, after the 1000 years, the second resurrection."

Second, John didn't say the 144,000 were resurrected!

Revelation 7:4-8 (KJV)

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. 
6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. 
7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. 
8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Joseph (Ephraim) were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

Revelation 14:1-5 (KJV)

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion (that's Har Tsiyown or Mount Zion on earth!), and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. 2 And I heard a voice from heaven (a voice from the sky), as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: 3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. 4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. 5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

It is commonly assumed that the "throne of God" is in some far-off place called "Heaven," but God's throne will be WHEREVER He reigns over the lives of human beings, and at this time, it will be through His Messiah, Yeshua` the Lamb (Hebrew: haKeves, the Yearling Lamb), who is His REPRESENTATIVE King, since God, His Father, is a Spirit.

How strange: we are LIVING in an age - and you don't even know what to call it! 

You imagine that there is NO TIME between the events Paul mentioned: Revelation shows us many events that happen between the events Paul wrote of.

Please explain YOUR theory of How the 144,000 got to heaven. I guess you imagine they were martyred. 

Where did Isaiah see the throne? Where did Ezekiel see the throne? 

It remains to be seen of God the Father, on His throne, with the 4 Beasts, will descend to Jerusalem. I don't read of that anywhere.

[Retrobyter]

On 5/7/2019 at 9:36 AM, iamlamad said:

Hmm. God is a God of exceptions. How about Lazarus, Jesus' friend. It seems he died TWICE.  Indeed, just in the last 20 or 30 years many believers have died and came back to life. For example, I know one man, Gary Wood, that died in a car crash, went to heaven, but had to return to His body - His sister would not let him die - she prayed him back to his body. This happens more than you know. Should we just dismiss these testimonies? Why - if they don't disagree with the word of God? 

If the rapture is pretrib, and it IS, then Jesus MOST [MUST] take us back to the homes prepared (Exactly what John 14 says) because He remains in heaven during Revelation chapters 6 through 19. He returns only in chapter 19. Just so you know, that covers the entire 70th week of Daniel.  In your theory He prepares abodes, but then does not take us to them. I don't think so! In Jesus day, the groom went to prepare a place, then went to retrieve his bride, and brought her to the place he had prepared. 

Shalom, iamlamad.

As far as Lazarus (Elezar) is concerned, Yeshua` explained this to His disciples:

John 11:1-15 (KJV)

1 Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha. 2 (It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.) 3 Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying,

"Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick."

4 When Jesus heard that, he said,

***"This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby."*** 

5 Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus. 6 When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was. 
7 Then after that saith he to his disciples,

"Let us go into Judaea again."

8 His disciples say unto him,

"Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?"

9 Jesus answered,

"Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world. 10 But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him."

11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them,

"Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep."

12 Then said his disciples,

"Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well."

13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. 14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly,

"Lazarus is dead. 15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him."

Do you understand? This has nothing to do with "second chances." It has EVERYTHING to do with "the glory of God and that the Son of God might be glorified by it!"

I HIGHLY DOUBT (and with GOOD reason) that these so-called "resurrections" have the same purpose.

 

I've taken the time to listen to the interview that Sid Roth had with Gary Wood. The man is a flim-flam man. This incident happened on December 23, 1966, and he described rising up out of his body into a funnel-shaped cloud, engulfed by a "tranquil light, not as bright as the studio lights."

He talked about seeing "a golden satellite" and "walls made of solid jaspers, that's DIAMONDS!" he emphasized.

He made the claim that it was "2.7 cubic billion miles at its circumference." He's obviously no mathematician. First, he said this backwards; it should be "2.7 billion cubic miles." However, "CUBIC miles" is a measure of VOLUME, not distance! Therefore, it has NOTHING to do with "its circumference!"

He also claimed that it was 780,000 stories high and had enough room for a "hundred thousand million people!" That translates to...

100 x 1,000 x 1,000,000 = 100,000,000,000 or 100 billion people. That's only a tenth of a trillion people!

He said that his own mansion was a southern-style ranchhouse with a fence and marble columns. He described three buckets of paint sitting in his livingroom that created floral arrangements when thrown against the wall! ( WHAT?????!!!)

He talked about how "pure solid gold" doesn't have "the normal impurities that makes gold yellow and is transparent."

He talked about how heaven had this library where angels will wipe out deeds with a cloth from a person's book!

He talked about a room that contained body parts as SPARE PARTS! That way, when a miracle of a restored limb would be performed, the parts would be ready! (Again,  WHAT????!!!!!)

He talked about hearing new songs before they were given to men to write down, and that they were floating down to them as "notes floating through the air!" He talked about hearing these songs as "trees were clapping their hands and flowers with faces were singing!" (This man watched too many old Disney cartoons!)

No, this man just wanted his 15 minutes of fame; that's all.

The same is true for Nathan Wheeler. (I watched him, as well, since his "testimony" was next.)

These men are glory seekers, but not for GOD'S glory but their own.

There's much more to say, but I don't have the stomach for it tonight.