Christians and Politics

[The_Patriot21]

7 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Has not been my experience over the many years of working with contract cleaning companies and in hiring workers directly.

There is no need to "pay under the table". What I cannot ( could not) do is report that  I think papers are false, that will ( would have) put me and my own employing company in jeopardy of losing a serious lawsuit even if the evidence is clear and the person is an illegal.

What we need do is to wait to receive notice that the person will cost us a $1500 a day fine if we do not remove them from our payeoll. That is our safe passage ticket. The workers all know this they work with it, and then disappear when they are told we or our contractors have received a notice that they cannot work for us. That notice can take years and years to receive, if ever.

BTW they are the very best of workers, from all over the world they come, doing very hard work that  most in the USA will not do at any price in this affluent welfare program rich land. I was paying a minimum of $15 an hour way back before it became the mantra of today $15. Our "own" though out of work refused to work hard jobs, not at any price will they dirty their hands.. I used to get on the phone and call them, but nope they didn't want the job, it wasn't in their line of work, not up to their standards for employment. They would rather not work  and just wait for their "career" job to open up once again sometime. The illegals were not taking jobs away they were filling them, still are.

I never said they wernt nice, just that your "experience" is limited when it comes to how their paid.because that is not the case in most of the country. Im not calling you a liar im sure where you live that is indeed the case, but it is not the case over the majority of America. I don't know where you live but im guessing its either a sanctuary city or someplace with liberal leanings.

[Mozart's Starling]

Well I have only come back to the fold recently so I might be mistaken, but as far as I am aware the Bible doesn't comment directly on immigration. As far as I know a brother or sister us no less so for being from anywhere else and you are to love them as yourself, however you are suppose to follow all "just" laws of whatever nation you are in Biblically speaking (again if I am not mistaken). So the question is is our handling of immigrants just? In my opinion, we could certainly do better and should be more concerned with HELPING people than keeping them out. That said I do think basic screening is reasonable, you don't want terrorists entering the country etc, but I do think illegal immigrants are demonized and that your average illegal is no worse than anyone else.

Edited February 19, 2019 by Mozart's Starling

[Debp]

7 hours ago, Neighbor said:

It galls me to state it but Nancy is right, we do need our illegals to have here to clean our hotel rooms and make our beds. Augh!!!! I agreed with a lefty liberal Demoncrat, auuuugh!

 

8 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Has not been my experience over the many years of working with contract cleaning companies and in hiring workers directly.

There is no need to "pay under the table". What I cannot ( could not) do is report that  I think papers are false, that will ( would have) put me and my own employing company in jeopardy of losing a serious lawsuit even if the evidence is clear and the person is an illegal.

What we need do is to wait to receive notice that the person will cost us a $1500 a day fine if we do not remove them from our payeoll. That is our safe passage ticket. The workers all know this they work with it, and then disappear when they are told we or our contractors have received a notice that they cannot work for us. That notice can take years and years to receive, if ever.

BTW they are the very best of workers, from all over the world they come, doing very hard work that  most in the USA will not do at any price in this affluent welfare program rich land. I was paying a minimum of $15 an hour way back before it became the mantra of today $15. Our "own" though out of work refused to work hard jobs, not at any price will they dirty their hands.. I used to get on the phone and call them, but nope they didn't want the job, it wasn't in their line of work, not up to their standards for employment. They would rather not work  and just wait for their "career" job to open up once again sometime. The illegals were not taking jobs away they were filling them, still are.

Re the paying under the table: Many thousands of illegal immigrants and even some legal immigrants in L.A. are street vendors.   They sell all sorts of things from food, jewelry, balloons to clothing.    So as a result, they are basically being paid under the table.   This street vending also takes business away from the regular brick and mortar shops which are run by other immigrants.

[Neighbor]

46 minutes ago, Debp said:

 

Re the paying under the table: Many thousands of illegal immigrants and even some legal immigrants in L.A. are street vendors.   They sell all sorts of things from food, jewelry, balloons to clothing.    So as a result, they are basically being paid under the table.   This street vending also takes business away from the regular brick and mortar shops which are run by other immigrants.

Hi Debp,

Sorry but I do disagree hope that is okay. I just reach a very different conclusion. Ya know I do the very same thing when I have a yard sale. Guess I too get paid under the table, shame on me. Why could I be putting some mom and pop store out of business? Don't think so. There are now over 800 storefronts in short walking distance of my home.  There is no such thing as a mom and pop storefront, well except a couple of multi location local restaurants. There is one vacancy that I know of,  an independent restaurant wen t under. Someone tried to sell $15 tacos out of a large restaurant space. I didn't bite on that one more than once, and I guess no one else did either.  Successful mom and pop are on the internet selling stuff fast as like hotcakes on a Saturday morning. I don't think anyone goes retail storefront anymore. 

I do personally know some of the LA City districts and of the street vender selling little mason jars of stuff they have cooked or pickled, and   even some used clothing they are trying to sell on the sidewalk; not having a nice garage and driveway  they sell on the street corners. First time I went through I was  a bit intimidated  almost prayed to not to hit a red light. Then I realized shame shame on  me, they are just individuals trying to survive. Somehow I don't think they are putting Walmart nor the corner gas station convenience store out of business.

 I do know that many live there many families to a flat, hot sheeting it with as many as 17 people to two bedrooms, and just barely surviving. I have been there, scary places with a few very called upon Christians going about them with Bibles, clothing, food, and encouragement.

I am more inclined to feel shamed that I did not do way more, as some did while I was there. I am not at all inclined to feel the people there are the enemy within our gates., sorry.

I do like,  in fact maybe even love that some individuals will work so hard in the land of the welfare receiving generations trained up to do little more than procreate to keep up their family numbers needed  for gaining maximum government goodies.  I do have to work upon myself and pray for them as well. I have made personal effort, or a renewed personal effort, in that very area of failing in myself.

Take care God bless as you too work out life in LA and SoCal in general. I don't think I would have the strength left in me to do it yet again. 

[Neighbor]

2 hours ago, The_Patriot2019 said:

I never said they wernt nice, just that your "experience" is limited when it comes to how their paid.because that is not the case in most of the country. Im not calling you a liar im sure where you live that is indeed the case, but it is not the case over the majority of America. I don't know where you live but im guessing its either a sanctuary city or someplace with liberal leanings.

Good to know you have the greater experience and speak for the majority of America.

I confess my own personal experience awareness is limited pretty much to California, Florida, New York, and Massachusetts with guidance on issues coming from the Christian lawyers association  team of lawyers dealing with federal immigrant issues from out of Illinois.   

[Debp]

24 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Hi Debp,

Sorry but I do disagree hope that is okay. I just reach a very different conclusion. Ya know I do the very same thing when I have a yard sale. Guess I too get paid under the table, shame on me. Why could I be putting some mom and pop store out of business? Don't think so. There are now over 800 storefronts in short walking distance of my home.  There is no such thing as a mom and pop storefront, well except a couple of multi location local restaurants. There is one vacancy that I know of,  an independent restaurant wen t under. Someone tried to sell $15 tacos out of a large restaurant space. I didn't bite on that one more than once, and I guess no one else did either.  Successful mom and pop are on the internet selling stuff fast as like hotcakes on a Saturday morning. I don't think anyone goes retail storefront anymore. 

I do personally know some of the LA City districts and of the street vender selling little mason jars of stuff they have cooked or pickled, and   even some used clothing they are trying to sell on the sidewalk; not having a nice garage and driveway  they sell on the street corners. First time I went through I was  a bit intimidated  almost prayed to not to hit a red light. Then I realized shame shame on  me, they are just individuals trying to survive. Somehow I don't think they are putting Walmart nor the corner gas station convenience store out of business.

 I do know that many live there many families to a flat, hot sheeting it with as many as 17 people to two bedrooms, and just barely surviving. I have been there, scary places with a few very called upon Christians going about them with Bibles, clothing, food, and encouragement.

I am more inclined to feel shamed that I did not do way more, as some did while I was there. I am not at all inclined to feel the people there are the enemy within our gates., sorry.

I do like,  in fact maybe even love that some individuals will work so hard in the land of the welfare receiving generations trained up to do little more than procreate to keep up their family numbers needed  for gaining maximum government goodies.  I do have to work upon myself and pray for them as well. I have made personal effort, or a renewed personal effort, in that very area of failing in myself.

Take care God bless as you too work out life in LA and SoCal in general. I don't think I would have the strength left in me to do it yet again. 

I don't consider them enemies.   I love all of my neighbors.   Just saying the vendors do their selling everyday....not just a yard sale type of thing.  There are many little stores run by immigrants where the vendors do affect the shop's business.   The city had to tell them they have to be a certain number of feet away from the shops, restaurants as the shop owners were complaining about vendors right in front of their doors.

Also, it's more than just selling Mason jars of stuff.   There are makeshift "grills"....old metal trash cans with metal on top where they grill hot dogs, onions, etc.   Someone once did a cartoon about these old cans with the hot dogs grilling on top, that the cans once held chemicals.   I don't know for sure but I sure don't want one of those hot dogs.

Again I'm not upset or anything....just giving a picture of it all.

[The_Patriot21]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

Good to know you have the greater experience and speak for the majority of America.

I confess my own personal experience awareness is limited pretty much to California, Florida, New York, and Massachusetts with guidance on issues coming from the Christian lawyers association  team of lawyers dealing with federal immigrant issues from out of Illinois.   

My experience deals with not only first hand experience but federal law....

[Neighbor]

12 hours ago, The_Patriot2019 said:

My experience deals with not only first hand experience but federal law....

Okay, I guess. Come to think of it so does mine. Seems to me federal law is experienced by all of us, and many of us have to actually read, study, get legal counsel, obtain appeals court and even supreme court decisions and opinions at legal libraries and even read dissenting opinions, and live the federal laws whether constitutional, statutory, or administrative law, in both  civil or criminal arenas. Having also to purchase access to law library online  and or go into a law library and spend many an hour in research.

Personally  I don't see us as being outriders for our Lord herding cattle and fighting off the rustlers. Instead  I see  us as sheep of the fold of Jesus following the voice of  our Good Shepherd,  our armor being the word of God the Bible.

So we see from vastly differing perspectives. May each of us be safe in the arms of our Lord eternally blessed to be with God. I'll leave you the last word, take care, be safe, enjoy the day.

ps-ha, just remembered my first law class, and it's first case research assignment; go to research  Blondell vs Warner Brothers and be prepared to make an oral report.  The idea was to simply get students familiar with researching and the law library itself. Each case handed out was to  be a short one paragraph decision, except one. Guess who drew the "one", and then was grilled by  my law professor for nearly the full three hours of the class, before the entire class? That practicing lawyer  and professor had more questions that  he could ask about that one decision, wore me to a frazzle by evening's end. But I was fortunately up to it because I had gotten so intrigued by that case and it's implications for contract law and contracts themselves, that I did spend way too many hours  on the assignment. I learned to  much appreciate that professor as his hard grilling paid off for me later in life when I spent much of five years in state civil and then federal civil law courts.

[The_Patriot21]

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

Okay, I guess. Come to think of it so does mine. Seems to me federal law is experienced by all of us, and many of us have to actually read, study, get legal counsel, obtain appeals court and even supreme court decisions and opinions at legal libraries and even read dissenting opinions, and live the federal laws whether constitutional, statutory, or administrative law, in both  civil or criminal arenas. Having also to purchase access to law library online  and or go into a law library and spend many an hour in research.

Personally  I don't see us as being outriders for our Lord herding cattle and fighting off the rustlers. Instead  I see  us as sheep of the fold of Jesus following the voice of  our Good Shepherd,  our armor being the word of God the Bible.

So we see from vastly differing perspectives. May each of us be safe in the arms of our Lord eternally blessed to be with God. I'll leave you the last word, take care, be safe, enjoy the day.

ps-ha, just remembered my first law class, and it's first case research assignment; go to research  Blondell vs Warner Brothers and be prepared to make an oral report.  The idea was to simply get students familiar with researching and the law library itself. Each case handed out was to  be a short one paragraph decision, except one. Guess who drew the "one", and then was grilled by  my law professor for nearly the full three hours of the class, before the entire class? That practicing lawyer  and professor had more questions that  he could ask about that one decision, wore me to a frazzle by evening's end. But I was fortunately up to it because I had gotten so intrigued by that case and it's implications for contract law and contracts themselves, that I did spend way too many hours  on the assignment. I learned to  much appreciate that professor as his hard grilling paid off for me later in life when I spent much of five years in state civil and then federal civil law courts.

Well, except its not...federal law prohibits illegals for working legally...illegal citizens are illegal for a reason....they can't work legally...they dont pay taxes...never have. You can claim all that you want-but until you can actually cite federal law stating that they do, then quite frankly, I have to believe that your misguided, because the facts dont line up with the narrative you are claiming.

[Neighbor]

6 minutes ago, The_Patriot2019 said:

Well, except its not...federal law prohibits illegals for working legally...illegal citizens are illegal for a reason....they can't work legally...they dont pay taxes...never have. You can claim all that you want-but until you can actually cite federal law stating that they do, then quite frankly, I have to believe that your misguided, because the facts dont line up with the narrative you are claiming.

I said I would give you the last word.

I will also take the guidance of Paul to Timothy onto myself. 2 Tim 2:23 through 26