simplejeff Posted February 26, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, iamlamad said: This is certain: when Paul penned "the last trump," he had a certain SERIES of trumpet sounds in mind. Since Paul did not TELL us which series, it is up to us to investigate. Not necessarily , by any means. What there is no need to know, do not investigate. What Yahweh Reveals, believe and trust Him, and DO His Word - LISTEN, IF you hear His Voice, do not rebel as they did in the wilderness and perished. A LOT of so-called 'investigation' has been deception - very total deception, world wide, on purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2019 4 hours ago, Spock said: LA, That interpretation may be right....it got my attention when I first was exposed to it......but I’m just being 100% honest with my thoughts.....I have yet to accept that interpretation (Rev 5:6 is when Jesus ascended to Heaven), not before. And yes, the rapture in Rev 7:9-17 does follow the 6th seal so that has to be weighed heavily. But, have you read any of Rev Mans thinking here. I’m still processing it all as we speak but he makes a good point....many chapters in Revelation are not chronological but rather interludes and filling in the details. He believes just because Rev 7 follows Rev 6 doesn’t necessarily mean these two chapters have to be chronological. I’m still pondering and weighing this thinking and seeing if it can work. Let me know what you think. Therefore, I am exploring other possibilities and options and weighing them all. I’m retired, so I have plenty of time. This discussion is just what I was hoping for.....people I care about and respect sharing their thoughts, research, and passions. This is what learning should be about.....as well as adding prayer to help assist. Lol spock Spock, I disagree with RM on a few things. I believe John wrote Revelation as chronologically as possible. Up to chapter 11, it is in order of time, but from chapter 11 on, there is parallel streams to the end, and John must write in some kind of order to show these parallel paths. I believe the countdown beginnings of these parallel paths are staggered, in the exact order John started them. The first countdown is the 421 months of trampling. Many people feel the need to switch whole chapters. That is silly. God knows the order these things will take place. I will state for the record: any event written of in a given chapter will come to pass AFTER things written in previous chapters and BEFORE things written in later chapters. The one exception is when John writes parentheses. An example of a parenthesis is the first 5 verses of chapter 5, about the birth of Christ and how Satan tried to kill Jesus as a child. My axiom of Revelation: ANY theory that must rearrange John's God given chronology is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2019 Just now, simplejeff said: Not necessarily , by any means. What there is no need to know, do not investigate. What Yahweh Reveals, believe and trust Him, and DO His Word - LISTEN, IF you hear His Voice, do not rebel as they did in the wilderness and perished. A LOT of so-called 'investigation' has been deception - very total deception, world wide, on purpose. By "investigation" I mean searching the scriptures and the historic background of the people in scriptures. For example, the feast of trumpets was the one feast that "no man knows the day nor the hour." This is the feast that cannot begin until TWO (2) witnesses have seen with their own eyes the sliver of a new moon. How interesting then, Paul penned "the last trump" and Jesus said "no man knows the day nor the hour." I don't know of anyone that is on these threads for the purpose of deception. I think we all want the truth. However, that being said, many imagine THEIR "truth" is THE TRUTH, when in fact, it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2019 1 minute ago, iamlamad said: This is certain: when Paul penned "the last trump," he had a certain SERIES of trumpet sounds in mind. Since Paul did not TELL us which series, it is up to us to investigate. Another thing we can be certain of, it is NOT the 7th trumpet of Revelation. The 7 trumpets of Revelation were a mystery hidden in God when Paul penned his letters. Anyway, John SAW the raptured church in heaven, written in chapter 7. That places Paul's rapture (and the last trump) before Rev. 7. I have said for a long time now that Paul's rapture comes just a moment before the 6th seal. Then John saw the church in heaven shortly thereafter. I get your point: it really does not matter if we stay ready. But then, will it matter to God if we expect something else first, so we are not eagerly expecting Him? Here are a few things to consider: Investigations deal with facts, not assumptions. Though Paul, at that time did not know about the 7 Trumpet Judgments, the Holy Spirit was speaking through Paul and He knew about the 7 Trumpet judgments. When John was asked who the multitude was, John replied "Sir, you know." The angle then stated "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." The 5th seal states "When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held." Notice how scripture tells us that all those were slain for the word of God? That is much different than those who are "caught up" to be with the Lord. I cannot state clearly enough that it does matter if we remain ready at all times to meet the Lord for we are never guaranteed the next second in our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 26, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2019 4 minutes ago, iamlamad said: I don't know of anyone that is on these threads for the purpose of deception. I think we all want the truth. However, that being said, many imagine THEIR "truth" is THE TRUTH, when in fact, it isn't. You do know though, that most all the world is deceived, right? (It is written in the APocalypse** that the whole world is not only deceived, but they all refuse to stop worshiping demons) ..... ** and in Ephesians , Galatians, et al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Spock said: Ok Rev Man, here we go with those numbers.....(holding breath) i read what you wrote twice and I have to be honest with you, I want to see this as you say, but my mind (or heart?) is just preventing me to do so. So, either I just haven’t been won over yet or maybe I’m missing something, or maybe I’m not meant to accept it. Not sure which one, so let’s keep the dialog going. This makes more sense to me: We could say that at the end of the 1,260 days Jesus returns. At the end of the 1,290 days, Jesus’ government is officially installed. At the end of the 1,335 days the nations are judged (Matthew 25:31-46). To me where to put the 1290 event is not as clear as the 1335 event. The way I visualize the second coming, is that Yeshua returns after 1260 from the mid point of the week.....I am not 100% sure the AOD has to be at that midpoint. I think it is, but I’m going to say I’m not 100% sure and will look at it again. I then believe there will be a lot going on from the day Yeshua returns until the Millennial Kingdom is set up. For example, I believe the sheep and goats Judgment of Matt 25:31 will take place during this period and I know that may take some time. Thus, I see it makes sense to add the days AFTER the Lord returns in order to accomplish the many tasks at hand. After all, the survivors of the planet will still not know what is going on and the MK clearly can’t begin until we know who made the cut and who didn’t. That will take time.....thus the 45 days. Having said that, I am now more open to see the two witnesses and the AOD occurring 30 days before the mid point, so that can make 1290 days till the Lord returns. I’m open to,that interpretation. So, instead of giving the two witnesses 75 days before midpoint, give them 30.....maybe. Just thinking out loud. This way they would then die 30 days before Yeshua returns, not 75 days before. Okay brother, let me have it......but go easy on me, don’t forget, I’m a RETIRED teacher. ? Spock, keep in mind, most of the Evangelical church world believes the week ends exactly 1260 days from the abomination event that divides the week. (I say it ends with the 7th vial - that will be poured out on that 1260th day.) Then some other event will take place 30 days AFTER the 1260th day....the 1290th day - perhaps Christ's coming. Note carefully, He does NOT come on the 1260th day! The week ends in chapter 16,, and Jesus does not return until chapter 19. There are EVENTS listed by John that come BETWEEN the end of the week and His coming. There will be yet another event that will come another 45 days after the 1290th day event - on the 1335th day from the abomination event. It could be the official opening of the millennial reign of Christ. We don't know because John does not tell us. the two witnesses are not that complicated: they show up right where John has them: just 3.5 days before the abomination event that will divide the week. Edited February 26, 2019 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2019 Just now, simplejeff said: You do know though, that most all the world is deceived, right? (It is written in the APocalypse** that the whole world is not only deceived, but they all refuse to stop worshiping demons) ..... ** and in Ephesians , Galatians, et al Yes, of course most people will follow the broad road that leads to destruction. This is a given. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.09 Reputation: 688 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, OneLight said: Here are a few things to consider: Investigations deal with facts, not assumptions. Though Paul, at that time did not know about the 7 Trumpet Judgments, the Holy Spirit was speaking through Paul and He knew about the 7 Trumpet judgments. When John was asked who the multitude was, John replied "Sir, you know." The angle then stated "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." The 5th seal states "When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which they held." Notice how scripture tells us that all those were slain for the word of God? That is much different than those who are "caught up" to be with the Lord. I cannot state clearly enough that it does matter if we remain ready at all times to meet the Lord for we are never guaranteed the next second in our lives. Sorry, I did not write that as I was thinking to write, I was trying to say, it does not matter exactly WHEN He comes for us if we are ready. We must always stay ready! Did you ever wonder how many people will go up in the rapture? We have had perhaps 40 to 50 generations now since the church age began. it is going to be a HUGE, HUGE number - as is written, too large to number. I know most of the church world does not recognize this huge crowd as the just raptured church. They are in error on this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 26, 2019 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) Five ? Maybe nine ? Genesis 18:24 What if there are fifty righteous ones in the city? Will ... https://biblehub.com/genesis/18-24.htm Will you then sweep away the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous ... Wouldn't you spare the city if there are only 50 good people in it? ... And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall ... Edited February 26, 2019 by simplejeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted February 26, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.24 Reputation: 9,760 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted February 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, iamlamad said: Sorry, I did not write that as I was thinking to write, I was trying to say, it does not matter exactly WHEN He comes for us if we are ready. We must always stay ready! Did you ever wonder how many people will go up in the rapture? We have had perhaps 40 to 50 generations now since the church age began. it is going to be a HUGE, HUGE number - as is written, too large to number. I know most of the church world does not recognize this huge crowd as the just raptured church. They are in error on this point. The point I was making is in the scripture you pointed to, all those people were slain, nothing about being caught up in the rapture not slain. There is a difference. As for the number? I hope there will be more than I can even imagine, all the while remembering the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." Makes me wonder just how large the number will be ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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