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Mid Trib rapture anyone?


Spock

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9 hours ago, Spock said:

Marilyn,

thank you for taking the time to do this,

im thinking as you are thinking although I’m not sure the reason you gave for the 5th trumpet to be after the midpoint can hold up to a rebuttal (by lamad).  

I guess you can say “the Star falling from heaven opening the abyss” is Satan......and we all know this happens at the midpoint, right? 

Well Marilyn, I like this interpretation....I’m sure LAmad won’t agree.....but it does have logic to it.  So, for now, I’m going to embrace this as my thinking because it actually confirms what I feel very strongly about....the 6th seal is released at the END of the week and not the middle, as our distinguished brother (LAmad) believes. 

Thanks again Marilyn......I lift up my cup your way on this one.

spock

Spock, how in the world are you going to get the book open to start the trumpet judgments if one seal remains to the end of the week! Now you have pushed off all the trumpets and vials to AFTER the week. It this wasn't so sad, it would be funny. Note carefully, in chapter 8, after the 7th seal is opened, we read what is INSIDE THE BOOK. No, it does not say it in so many words, but it is true anyway.

Satan was SURE no one would ever escape his hell and be found worthy to open the seals - but God sure showed Him!

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22 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

So now we are up to looking at how all those details fit into the trumpet sequence.

First, we see that Satan and his (active)demons are cast to the earth at the mid-point of trib. This lines up with the 5th trumpet which gives a picture of Satan falling to the earth and releasing the demons that have been locked for awhile, onto the earth.

             5th trumpet

.........I......................................................................................................................I...>                       

  Satan & demons on the earth.

 

Secondly, we see that the 6th trumpet judgment starts with the great army and continues through to the 2 witnesses being killed, (3.5 days), and then rising, and finally the Great earthquake, which completes the second woe.

 

             5th Trumpet (woe)                              6th Trumpet / woe           7th T woe

.........I....................................................................................................................I...>                       

     Satan & demons                                             Gt. Army      Gt. EarthQ.                                          

      on the earth.

Sorry, but the midpoint of the trib is NOT at the 5th trumpet. That is myth.  Next, you are in error on the two witnesses, not recognizing that 11:4 through 11:13 are written as a parenthesis. The truth is, they SHOW UP just 3.5 days before the midpoint (7th trumpet), testify for 1260 days, which will take them to just 3.5 days before the end of the week. They will lay dead for those 3.5 days, they be raised "on the last day" when all the rest of the Old Covenant saints raise. 

You have one TINY part right: the earthquake when the two witnesses rise is the very same earthquake at the 7th vial that ends the week - because BOTH are at the end of the week.

 

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23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

So let`s do a time line from the second half of the tribulation.

1.From the time of Michael standing up for Israel till their power is shattered, there will be 3  ½ yrs, `time, times and half a time.` (Dan. 12: 1 & 7)

 

.......I.................................(3 ½ yrs).................................................I                    

Israel`s time for national Deliverance  (time, times and half a time. Dan. 12: 1)  

           

2.Next we read that God is measuring, (discerning) those in Israel who are seeking Him, (worship at the altar). The holy city will then be trodden down by the Gentile (nations), for 42 months.

.......I.................................(3 ½ yrs).................................................I                   

 Israel`s time for national Deliverance  (time, times and half a time. Dan. 12: 1)                                         

 Holy City, (Jerusalem) trodden down by Gentiles for 42 months...................

 

3.Then we see that the 2 witnesses, (Moses & Elijah) will witness to Israel (& the world) of what they witnessed of Jesus, (His death, resurrection and ascension). Let`s put them on the time line.

.......I.................................(3 ½ yrs).................................................I                  

  Israel`s time for national Deliverance  (time, times and half a time. Dan. 12: 1)                                          

  Holy City, (Jerusalem) trodden down by Gentiles for 42 months...................                                          

  The 2 Witnesses prophecy for 1,260 days.....................................(3 ½ days).

 

4.Michael, Israel`s Great Prince stands up against Satan and casts Him to the earth. This means Satan`s power & authority is limited. Satan goes off to make war with those in Israel who turned to God. This is for `time, times and half a time.` (Rev.12: 14)

.......I.................................(3 ½ yrs).................................................I                   

 Israel`s time for national Deliverance  (time, times and half a time. Dan. 12: 1)                                          

  Holy City, (Jerusalem) trodden down by Gentiles for 42 months...................                                          

  The 2 Witnesses prophecy for 1,260 days......................................(3 ½ days).                                         

   Satan cast down & persecutes those in Israel following God..`time, times & half time.` (Rev. 12: 14)

 

5.The  anti-Christ leader of the Global Government is given authority to rule for 42 months.

.......I......................................(3 ½ yrs).................................................I             

 Israel`s time for national Deliverance  `time, times and half a time`....................                                                     

 Holy City, (Jerusalem) trodden down by Gentiles for 42 months.........................                                     

 The 2 Witnesses prophecy for 1,260 days............................................(3 ½ days).                                  

 Satan persecutes Israel, `time, times & half a time.` ...........................................               

The anti-Christ given authority for 42 months.....................................................

 

Quite a lot of detail that God has given for events over the last part of the Tribulation.

Next we need to look at how that all fits into the trumpet sequence.

Wow! You are getting some things right for a change: GOOD JOB! But Moses already died. He will probably not die twice. It will be Enoch and Elijah. 

4. Michael's signal to go after Satan will be the 7th trumpet: exact midpoint. Why then? Adam's 6000 year lease on earth will terminate: suddenly Satan will have no legal hold to earth.

I don't think you have the two witnesses testifying in the last half - but I HOPE you do, for it is correct. In truth, there will be 5 parallel paths (countdowns) to the end of the week: the 42 months of trampling, the 1260 days of witnessing, the 1260 days of fleeing, the 3.5 years of protection, and the 42 months of Authority. Of course it is impossible to write parallel events chronologically, but the truth is, the start of these countdowns is staggered, so John covers them in the exact order they will start. 

Just so you know, although you probably won't believe it: the trumpet judgments are OVER at the midpoint. 

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23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

When I am guided by the Holy Spirit in Biblical discussions, it is brought to my remembrance other scriptures on the subject. (John 14: 26 & 15: 13) And this is what is needed otherwise we go off into our imaginings.

Now Rev. 8 - 13 concerns the 3rd vision, the unveiling of the Lord as the Mediator of the Covenant. Thus we see Him in the heavenly sanctuary preparing for the Day of Atonement - Israel`s National deliverance. (Rev. 8: 3)The trumpets are the judgments upon the rebellious. The time line of these we will go into after we do Rev. 10 - 13.

 In Rev. 10 we see the Lord as the angel/messenger of the Covenant, (Mal. 3: 1). We see His great authority over the land & sea. Lifting His hand He swore by Himself, as God could swear by no one greater. (Heb. 6: 13) He also has a little book in His hand.

Now we go the Prophet Daniel to gain more information. There in Rev. 12 we read about the time of trouble, (as never before) and of a man who swore by God that the time for Israel`s tribulation to be over, will be `time, times and half a time,` (3 ½ yrs). The book has names of those who sought God, (Dan. 12 : 1 & 2,  Mal. 3: 16)

`So a book of remembrance was written before Him, for those who fear the Lord and meditate on His name.` (Malachi 3: 16)  

 There we see the timing of Rev. 10 as the middle of the Tribulation. It is good to have that point as then we can slot in all the other times.

I will do my comments a section at a time as you may want to comment or ask a question on that point raised. 

There we see the timing of Rev. 10 as the middle of the Tribulation. It is good to have that point as then we can slot in all the other times.

Sorry, this is not true. The 7th trumpet in chapter 11 is the exact midpoint.

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I will be out of town for spring break, so I will not be ignoring you all - I just won't have access to a computer.

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6 hours ago, Spock said:

Marilyn,

My first question is this:  how can you be so sure every place there is an earthquake mentioned in Revelation, that it is the same one?  (Rev 6, 11, 16) The details are always different. 

Hi Spock,

So let`s look at the 3 times a Great Earthquake is mentioned and see if they are the same or at different times.

(Rev. 6: 12 - 17,      11: 11 - 14,     16: 18 - 21)

Rev. 11: 11 - 14

`Now after the 3 ½ days the breath of life from God, entered them, (2 witnesses), and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who saw them. And then I heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud and their enemies saw them.

In the same hour there was a Great Earthquake, and a tenth of the city, (Jerusalem) fell. In the earthquake seven thousand men were killed and the rest were afraid and gave glory to God in heaven.

The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.` (Rev. 11: 11 - 14)

Here we see a quick view of the Great Earthquake, as it has to do with Jerusalem. Ch. 11 concerns Jerusalem so that is why the reference to the Great Earthquake is just confined to that. Now we know that that Great earthquake is at the end of the 2 Witnesses` testimony, at the end of the tribulation.

 (The 3 ½ days is included in the 1,260 days of their testimony, as what a great witness to the Lord as the resurrection and life, as they are brought to life and ascend to heaven.)

 

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Hi Spock,

Rev. 16: 18 - 21.

`And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

Then the 7th angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!”

And there were noises and thunder and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.

Now the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.

Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And great hail from heaven fell upon men, every hailstone about the weight of a talent. And men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since the plague was exceedingly great.` (Rev.16: 16 - 21)

Here are some more details of this Great earthquake that had not been previously. Notice it is just after the world`s armies gather at Armageddon.

 

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Hi Spock,

There is the scripture that, I believe nails it for us.

`See that you do not refuse Him who speaks. For if they did not escape who refused Him who spoke on earth, much more shall we not escape if we turn away from Him who speaks from heaven, whose voice then shook the earth; but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more I shake not only the earth, but also the heaven.` (Heb.12: 25 & 26)

And that reference is taken from Haggai.

`For thus says the Lord of hosts: “Once more I will shake heaven and earth, the sea and dry land; and I will shake all nations, and they shall come to the Desire of All Nations,..(Hag.2: 6 & 7)

So we see that God will shake the heaven and earth ONCE more.

Joel 3: 12 - 16

`Let the nations be wakened and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat; (outside Jerusalem) for there I will sit to judge all the surrounding nations. Put in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe. Come, go down; for the winepress is full, the vats overflow - for their wickedness is great.

Multitude, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the Day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision.

The sun and moon will grow dark, and the stars will diminish their brightness. The Lord also will roar from Zion, (heaven) and utter His voice from Jerusalem; the heavens and earth will shake, but the Lord will be a shelter for His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.`(Joel 3: 12 - 16)

Clearly that is the shaking God is talking about. There in Joel we see when that will happen. God has brought the world`s armies down from Armageddon, to around Jerusalem to the valley of Jehoshaphat. The heavens shake - the sun, moon and stars and the earth also.

 

Rev. 6: 12 - 17

`I looked when he opened the 6th seal, and behold, there was a Great Earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the moon became like blood. And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.

And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?” (Rev. 6: 12 - 17)

 

God is describing that He is shaking the heavens and earth here, and thus places this event at the end of the tribulation, just before the Lord returns in power and great glory with His angelic army.

 

  • Brilliant! 1
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12 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Spock, 

Stop and think: John wrote of 7 seals, and numbered them for sequencing. John wrote of the 7 trumpets and numbered them for sequencing. Same with the 7 vials. He wrote of three woes and numbered them for sequencing. Why then would ANYONE imagine the rest of the book would be in a mixed up order? 

The truth is, it is NOT. You have gone through all these gyrations only because you imagine the rapture in in 12:1-5, when in reality they are about Jesus and how the dragon tried to kill him. 

This post of yours really does upset me LAmad.  Because it shows me you NEVER BOTHER to read my posts. 

No where have I ever said the seals, trumpets, and bowls are NOT SEQUENCED, NOWHERE. Yet, this post of yours accuses me of that.

Just like you accuse me of putting the church in God’s wrath when I have never done that. 

For the record, here is my tentative proposed timeline one more time....

Seals 1-4 maybe already opened in past; if not in past immediately after peace treaty, start of week

Seals 5 and 6 released around the 3 year mark

Rapture at 6th seal

Trumpets 1-4 released

Midpoint....3.5 years...AOD, 2 witnesses, 2 beasts rise up

5th trumpet

Two witnesses die and 6th trumpet/7th trumpet

7 bowls

Return of Jesus

45 days of transitioning

Start of MK

 

 

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8 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I will be out of town for spring break, so I will not be ignoring you all - I just won't have access to a computer.

Spring break.....cool....enjoy LA. You will be missed. 

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