Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[Spock]

2 hours ago, The Light said:

The tribulation is 7 years long. It is the 70th week of Daniel. I can’t recall the book of Revelation giving any indication of the length of the tribulation. On my phone doing three things at once so don’t have time to take a peek. 

Don’t drive and text at the same time. Remember.....HANDS FREE BROTHER! 

[iamlamad]

17 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

OK let`s get our terminology correct. God - Father, (Spirit) Son, (Spirit), Holy Spirit = GODHEAD.

The Son was manifest as a man and now has a glorified body that is visible, which one day we will see. People can have a vision of the ascended Lord, BUT NOT of God the Father nor the GODHEAD.

BTW Jesus do not have human flesh any more for His body is now immortal, & incorruptible, and ours will be some day too.

Marilyn.

I will agree, back in the days of Malachi, the Godhead was entirely "spirit." But after the second person of the Godhead took the flesh of humans - by being born of a virgin - then forever more, the Godhead will not be entirely "spirit."

HOW can we "see" Him when you say He is in light so powerful NO MAN can see? Ah! Now you are saying we CAN see the SON but not the Godhead.  I think we could say Jesus STILL has resurrected human flesh - human flesh that is changed. 

The Godhead then today is Spirit (Father), Resurrected Human body (Son) and Spirit (Holy Spirit.) 

I think we will continue to disagree on many things.

[Spock]

3 minutes ago, The Light said:

You need to use your logic Mr Spock.

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

Rev 6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

THESE ARE THE SAME EVENTS. God gives us perfect timing to show us in Revelation where the events of Matthew 24 occur.

 

Matt 24

⁵ For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

⁶ And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

⁷ For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

 

Rev 6

² And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

³ And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

⁴ And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

⁵ And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

⁶ And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

⁷ And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

⁸ And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

THESE ARE ALSO THE SAME EVENTS.

Logic Mr. Spock. When the tribulation is complete, then the wrath of God will begin.

 The church will be caught up in the pretribulation rapture. Then God turns his attention to the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth. There are 144,000 first fruits, guaranteeing a harvest and that is the gathering that you see in Matt 24. The twelve tribes will not be caught unaware. They will not be in darkness that that day takes them unaware.

The wrath of God will be 42 months, just like it says, time, times and half a time. This event, God's wrath, does not occur during the 70th week as THE TRIBULATION IS OVER.  The nation of Israel will go through the wrath of God in a place of protection. None of God's people experience his wrath. Not the church, not the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth and not those in Israel that flee as they have been instructed.

 

You still didn’t show me 7years =tribulation.

you did show me 3.5 years is wrath

and I guess you infer the first 3.5 years is tribulation. 

Either way, you only show 3.5 years of tribulation. 

By the way, I agree with you God’s people don’t experience his wrath but have been experiencing tribulation for 2000 years since Christ left the house. 

[iamlamad]

Just now, The Light said:

You need to use your logic Mr Spock.

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

 

Rev 6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

THESE ARE THE SAME EVENTS. God gives us perfect timing to show us in Revelation where the events of Matthew 24 occur.

Sorry, but these are NOT the same events. That idea is nothing but MYTH that cannot be proven. The opposite, however, can be proven. 

You are rearranging Revelation so your theory WILL BE proven wrong.

AXIOM 2 on Revelation:

ANY theory that does not include the understanding that "the book" in Rev. 5 is a legal document created in heaven and about planet earth and incorporate into that theory the following facts is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong:

1. Neither God nor Satan can begin anything written on or about a seal before that seal can be legally opened. 

2. The purpose of the seals are to PREVENT either God or Satan from opening the book and beginning the events written IN the book - such as any trumpet judgment. 

3. Once a seal is opened, then what is written about that seal can legally begin - but not before.

4. The seals are numbered for their proper order. Any theory that attempts to rearrange what John has numbered for sequencing will be wrong.

5. Because the seals are sealing the book, nothing written in Revelation after the 7th seal [what is written INSIDE the book] can possibly come to pass before all the seals are opened so that the book can be opened. Therefore, any theory that moves a seal to align with a trumpet or a vial will be proven wrong. What we read in Revelation after the 7th seal is opened is what is written INSIDE the book: the trumpet judgments are written inside the book.

6. Neither God nor Satan could legally take the book and open the seals. It would have to be a man from the human race. Further, it would have to be a man who could redeem mankind - a man who could escape death and rise again - and escape from hell. 

7. There was a time when Jesus Christ was NOT found worthy to take the book and open the seals. He BECAME worthy once He fulfilled what was required to redeem mankind. 

You are attempting to move the 6th seal to the end of the week. Your theory will be proven wrong.

In your imagination, you think the 6th seal is the same event that happens after the days of great tribulation. However, John would be shaking his head. You see, John does not even open or begin the 70th week until the 7th seal and does not get to the midpoint until the 7th trumpet. The days of GT then in Revelation won't even START until after the 7th trumpet has marked the midpoint! But they cannot start until God has given His warning not to take the mark - so the days of GT cannot be until AFTER that point in chapter 14. In fact, we see the first time the beheaded people begin showing up in heaven is not until chapter 15.

The truth then is that the days of GT will not even BEGIN until long after the 6th seal events have finished - making it impossible that the signs at the 6th seal are the same as the signs that will come AFTER the days of tribulation - as shown in Matthew 24.

Then there is the PURPOSE: The signs at the 6th seal are the signs for the start of the DAY, while the signs after the tribulation of those days will be the signs for HIS COMING, as shown in Rev. 19.

Just so you know, Joel shows BOTH of these signs, and shows they are different - and for a different purpose.  Joel 2 is a blood moon sign, proving the moon is visible - but the Joel 3 sign is when Christ has come (to Armageddon) and both the sun and moon will be invisible - meaning darkness - not even the stars will give any light. So different signs for different purposes that will come over 7 years apart.

[Marilyn C]

42 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I will agree, back in the days of Malachi, the Godhead was entirely "spirit." But after the second person of the Godhead took the flesh of humans - by being born of a virgin - then forever more, the Godhead will not be entirely "spirit."

HOW can we "see" Him when you say He is in light so powerful NO MAN can see? Ah! Now you are saying we CAN see the SON but not the Godhead.  I think we could say Jesus STILL has resurrected human flesh - human flesh that is changed. 

The Godhead then today is Spirit (Father), Resurrected Human body (Son) and Spirit (Holy Spirit.) 

I think we will continue to disagree on many things.

Hi iamlamad,

The Son has a glorified body AND A SPIRIT. `Father, into your hands I commend my spirit.` (Luke 23: 46)

Marilyn.

[iamlamad]

39 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

`The earth is the Lord`s and all its fullness, the world AND THOSE WHO DWELL THEREIN, for He has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the waters...` (Ps. 24: 1 & 2)

God has NOT lost His authority over the earth, as you say. Satan usurped authority and God could have dealt with him right then and there, but God ALLOWS Satan to have a certain amount of authority and NO more.

God gave Adam dominion UNDER GOD, not independent of God. That was Adam`s mistake to go independent instead of staying interdependent.

And yes, even I dear bro, make many mistakes. I do like to have a chuckle now and again. perhaps I should have put, (lol) so you know when I am having a laugh, which would be about us all as humans, and the funny things we do sometimes. (lol)

Now the people in your rental only have so much authority, they do not own it nor can they make decisions regarding it for selling, or remaking, or any such thing. So that picture really just shows that they are under you, but have some say, (limited) as in you can`t invade their privacy.

God certainly controls the kingdoms of this world, BUT not how they choose to rule. That is what is judged. Remember King of Babylon, Belshazzar, who treated with contempt the vessels of the Lord. Well his days were numbered by God and he was replaced.

`God has numbered your kingdom, and finished it; ...you have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting...Your kingdom has been divided, and given to the Medes and Persians.....that very night Belshazzar, king of the Chaldeans, was slain, and Darius the Mede received the kingdom..` (Da. 5: 26 - 31)

So obviously God is in charge!

Marilyn.

AS I said, you and I are not going to agree. OF COURSE God has set limits on Satan. We would all be dead otherwise! 

Agreed, when someone leases an apartment or home, they are limited in what they can do. 

 

[Marilyn C]

44 minutes ago, Spock said:

 

Hi Spock,

While your thinking on the 4 trumpets that bring famine and thirst, it is interesting to look at the great multitude of the different nations. They come out of the great trib, however the effects of the first part of the trib, had a serious effect on them.

`They shall neither HUNGER anymore, not THIRST any more;......` (Rev. 7: 16)

Marilyn.

[iamlamad]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

The Son has a glorified body AND A SPIRIT. `Father, into your hands I commend my spirit.` (Luke 23: 46)

Marilyn.

I would submit: the "spirit" inside the body of Christ as he was walking the earth was none other than the WORD that said, "Light BE!" He, the word, took on the flesh of humans by being born as one. But the life inside was GOD HIMSELF, the second person of the trinity. 

My point all along is, He will forever more have this resurrected human body.

[Spock]

8 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but these are NOT the same events. That idea is nothing but MYTH that cannot be proven. The opposite, however, can be proven. 

You are rearranging Revelation so your theory WILL BE proven wrong.

AXIOM 2 on Revelation:

ANY theory that does not include the understanding that "the book" in Rev. 5 is a legal document created in heaven and about planet earth and incorporate into that theory the following facts is immediately suspect and will be proven wrong:

1. Neither God nor Satan can begin anything written on or about a seal before that seal can be legally opened. 

2. The purpose of the seals are to PREVENT either God or Satan from opening the book and beginning the events written IN the book - such as any trumpet judgment. 

3. Once a seal is opened, then what is written about that seal can legally begin - but not before.

4. The seals are numbered for their proper order. Any theory that attempts to rearrange what John has numbered for sequencing will be wrong.

5. Because the seals are sealing the book, nothing written in Revelation after the 7th seal [what is written INSIDE the book] can possibly come to pass before all the seals are opened so that the book can be opened. Therefore, any theory that moves a seal to align with a trumpet or a vial will be proven wrong. What we read in Revelation after the 7th seal is opened is what is written INSIDE the book: the trumpet judgments are written inside the book.

6. Neither God nor Satan could legally take the book and open the seals. It would have to be a man from the human race. Further, it would have to be a man who could redeem mankind - a man who could escape death and rise again - and escape from hell. 

7. There was a time when Jesus Christ was NOT found worthy to take the book and open the seals. He BECAME worthy once He fulfilled what was required to redeem mankind. 

You are attempting to move the 6th seal to the end of the week. Your theory will be proven wrong.

In your imagination, you think the 6th seal is the same event that happens after the days of great tribulation. However, John would be shaking his head. You see, John does not even open or begin the 70th week until the 7th seal and does not get to the midpoint until the 7th trumpet. The days of GT then in Revelation won't even START until after the 7th trumpet has marked the midpoint! But they cannot start until God has given His warning not to take the mark - so the days of GT cannot be until AFTER that point in chapter 14. In fact, we see the first time the beheaded people begin showing up in heaven is not until chapter 15.

The truth then is that the days of GT will not even BEGIN until long after the 6th seal events have finished - making it impossible that the signs at the 6th seal are the same as the signs that will come AFTER the days of tribulation - as shown in Matthew 24.

Then there is the PURPOSE: The signs at the 6th seal are the signs for the start of the DAY, while the signs after the tribulation of those days will be the signs for HIS COMING, as shown in Rev. 19.

Just so you know, Joel shows BOTH of these signs, and shows they are different - and for a different purpose.  Joel 2 is a blood moon sign, proving the moon is visible - but the Joel 3 sign is when Christ has come (to Armageddon) and both the sun and moon will be invisible - meaning darkness - not even the stars will give any light. So different signs for different purposes that will come over 7 years apart.

The Light is very confusing. I know it’s late here and I’m tired but his last post to me “use your logic Mr Spock” seemed pretty incoherent. Maybe I’m just tired........

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[iamlamad]

Just now, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

While your thinking on the 4 trumpets that bring famine and thirst, it is interesting to look at the great multitude of the different nations. They come out of the great trib, however the effects of the first part of the trib, had a serious effect on them.

`They shall neither HUNGER anymore, not THIRST any more;......` (Rev. 7: 16)

Marilyn.

Good point! They WERE hungering and thirsting!