Mid Trib rapture anyone?

[The Light]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

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We will have to agree to disagree my brother.  I don’t want to be rude but I’m really not interested to keep a discussion going here on this.  You made you case, I made mine....so we shall see.  I will let God make my final statement.

Mr. Spock, very disappointed in your lack of logic. You also can't seem to produce any scripture to support your position. You tell me that Gog Magog occurs BEFORE the Temple is built, and yet you can't support your position with scripture. I tell you that Gog Magog occurs after the 1000 years, because the Bible says so. I don't have to wonder who is right, you or the Bible. Here's some logic. When you put things where God says they go, you will get a better picture of what will happen.

Rev 20

⁷ And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

⁸ And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 

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If and When you see Russia, Iran and Turkey entering into Israel to plunder their goods only to be wiped out by God ......then that will be your proof. (Of course, it is possible we may not even be here if like some say, the rapture may precede this event. I personally believe we will be here to see this, but maybe not.....)

This event will not occur until after the 1000 years, just like Rev 20 says.
 

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Keep studying brother....I like how you put scripture first. Nice. 

Spock

 

Live long and prosper Mr. Spock.

 

[JoeCanada]

I believe that the Gog-Magog war is the same as the Battle of Armageddon.

Let’s examine why it must occur during the 70^th Week of Daniel:

• Israel is living in false security (Ezek. 38:11). Look at Israel today. It does not live securely. Only a deceptive peace treaty will fool them into doing so.
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• God refers to Gog as “you are the one of whom I spoke in former days through my servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days for many years that I would bring you against them” (Ezek. 38: 17 NASB). This can only refer to the Antichrist, and the Antichrist only arises and attacks Israel at the Midpoint of Daniel’s 70^th Week.
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• God states that he will rain hail, fire, and brimstone on the forces of Gog. (Ezek. 38:22) This only occurs during the First Trumpet judgment. This time stamps that event as occurring at the beginning of the Seventh Year of the 70^th Week of Daniel.
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• After God defeats Gog and his army, God feeds them to the birds of the air (Ezek. 39: 17-20). This is an exact match with Rev. 19: 17 -18 where God calls the birds to gather to feast on the bodies of the Antichrist forces after the Battle of Armageddon.
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• God calls Gog’s forces a cloud that covers the land which is a match with God’s description of them in Joel 2:2.
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• After the battle, the Jewish captives are released and brought back to the land (Ezek. 39: 25-28). This happens after the Battle of Armageddon, and cannot happen prior to that point according to all the other pictures of the 70^th Week. This passage also claims that from that day forward, God will not allow a single Jew will be left behind in the nations. This is rock solid evidence that this can only refer to the end of the 70^thWeek.
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• After this battle, God will not let his Holy Name be profaned any more (Ezek. 39: 7). This can only happen at the conclusion of the 70^th Week of Daniel. It is utter nonsense to believe that this can apply to a time before the 70^th Week.
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• After the Battle, Israel knows the Lord is God from that point on forever (Ezek. 39: 22). Again, this can only happen at the conclusion of the 70^th Week.
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• God announces that this “is the day of which I have spoken” (Ezek. 39:8 NASB).
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• After the battle, God pours out his Spirit on Israel (Ezek. 39:29).
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• Finally, in Ezek. 38: 19-20 we learn that Jesus is physically present on the earth. As we have seen all of these aspects can only be fulfilled at the conclusion of Daniel’s 70^th Week and at no other time.

[The Light]

5 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

 

 

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I believe that the Gog-Magog war is the same as the Battle of Armageddon.

Let’s examine why it must occur during the 70^th Week of Daniel:

Israel is living in false security (Ezek. 38:11). Look at Israel today. It does not live securely. Only a deceptive peace treaty will fool them into doing so.

 

• Hi Joe,

Your statement shows why Gog Magog CANNOT occur during the 70th week. You said yourself that it is a false security, where the scripture clearly shows it is a real security.

Eze 38

¹¹ And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

THE WALLS OF ISRAEL

When the rider of the white goes forth, he goes forth conquering and conquer. There will also be wars and rumors of wars. The walls of Israel will not come down until after the true Messiah comes to the earth.

 

[Marilyn C]

23 hours ago, Last Daze said:

I'm assuming you meant "beasts" instead of "seals"?

Always interested in your economic perspective Marilyn.

Hi Last Daze,

Thank you for your interest. Also I did mean `seals,` though  can see why you would think different. I was talking of the seals, the 4 Federations the Father is bringing to the footstool of His Son to be judged. I called the final Federation, à beastly power,` to connect it with the `beasts` of Daniel.

Now I believe, Daniel is shown the beginnings of the 4 Great powers, (peculiar to our times) and then John is shown how they are just prior to being judged in the tribulation. eg,

Daniel: the Leopard had 4 heads, signifying leaders. This is how the European Union began with 4 leaders. Then John is shown how their philosophy of the common market, (scales) has brought the world to `a days work for just your day`s meal,` great inflation.

And we can see that is nearly where the world is now. In the last GFC (Global Financial Crisis) it was mainly the great powers that suffered loss, however over the years the rising third world countries have been given much credit and loans and thus they will suffer great loss in this next financial crisis. It really all depends on where those with the money, credit move their finance around, and then pull out. It is a GFC will need to have, (?) so those who want a Central Global Economic Institution, can bring it about.

The creators of this have looked to the European model and how the monetary union was brought about. They see that what can happen in a group of countries, can be brought about Globally. Thus step by step, (as in the EU) they work toward their goal. Everything is in place - the IMF, (International Monetary Fund with its currency in the wings), the BIS, (Bank for International Settlements, overseeing all banks and financial institutions) and the FSB, (Financial Stability Board, (the regulator).

These are all housed in the UN, (United Nations) which is like a `wolf in sheep`s clothing.` Once a leader arises there, soon who will be very Charismatic, he will affirm the leadership of the Peace Negotiator and there the Political and the Economic & Religious Leadership will be set.

regards, Marilyn. 

[Marilyn C]

20 hours ago, The Light said:

Hi Marilyn,

I don't see two different times. I see only the time that the Rev 20 gives, which is after the 1000 years. Secondly, I don't believe the definition that you give about Gog Magog is correct. We see in Eze 39  that Gog is a person, as he is buried, and not nations in the northern quarter.

Eze 39

¹¹ And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

Thirdly, it should be noted that Persia joins the multitude but there is no mention of Babylon, Iraq joining the attack. That's because the prophecy against Babylon will already be fullfilled.

Hi Light,

Yes `Gog, is a person, a leader of the northern nation. After the Ezekiel war he will be buried in that valley in Israel. Then at the end of the millennium the leader of the final countries that go to war against Israel, will NOT be buried but burnt up.

`Gog` is just the name of a nation/s from an area, and their leader. Thus at different times their will be different leaders and nations they lead whose name is `Gog.`

As to Persia (Iran) joining, you are right. Then that`s good you mentioned that Iraq does not join. And it is not because Babylon is finally decimated, (because it is being rebuilt) but because that is where the Peace Negotiator comes from.  And that is why the focus of the Middle East has been there over the past 2 decades.

Marilyn.

[The Light]

7 hours ago, JoeCanada said:

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God refers to Gog as “you are the one of whom I spoke in former days through my servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days for many years that I would bring you against them” (Ezek. 38: 17 NASB). This can only refer to the Antichrist, and the Antichrist only arises and attacks Israel at the Midpoint of Daniel’s 70^th Week.

Do you have any proof that this can only refer to the antichrist? I certainly do not know of any proof that this can only refer to the antichrist. Actually the antichrist towards the end of the 70th week, 1290 days after the daily sacrifice is taken away.

Dan 12

¹¹ And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

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God states that he will rain hail, fire, and brimstone on the forces of Gog. (Ezek. 38:22) This only occurs during the First Trumpet judgment. This time stamps that event as occurring at the beginning of the Seventh Year of the 70^th Week of Daniel.

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

If you are looking for the correct time stamp, you will see that the Tribulation, the 70th week of Daniel, is over before the wrath of God begins, which means that it is over before the 1st trumpet judgement.

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After God defeats Gog and his army, God feeds them to the birds of the air (Ezek. 39: 17-20). This is an exact match with Rev. 19: 17 -18 where God calls the birds to gather to feast on the bodies of the Antichrist forces after the Battle of Armageddon.

Could be a match if you only had this piece of information. But we have other information that says this occurs after the 1000 years.

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God calls Gog’s forces a cloud that covers the land which is a match with God’s description of them in Joel 2:2.

No, Joel 2 is talking about a day of clouds and darkness. Not a match whatsoever.

Joel 2

² A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

 

[JoeCanada]

14 hours ago, The Light said:

• Hi Joe,

Your statement shows why Gog Magog CANNOT occur during the 70th week. You said yourself that it is a false security, where the scripture clearly shows it is a real security.

Eze 38

¹¹ And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

THE WALLS OF ISRAEL

When the rider of the white goes forth, he goes forth conquering and conquer. There will also be wars and rumors of wars. The walls of Israel will not come down until after the true Messiah comes to the earth.

Hi Light,

It will only be a real security when Antichrist fools Israel into accepting a false "peace". Then they will again have their temple and resume their sacrifices. Only then will Israel feel secure.

[JoeCanada]

11 hours ago, The Light said:

God states that he will rain hail, fire, and brimstone on the forces of Gog. (Ezek. 38:22) This only occurs during the First Trumpet judgment. This time stamps that event as occurring at the beginning of the Seventh Year of the 70^th Week of Daniel.

 

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Rev 6

¹² And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

If you are looking for the correct time stamp, you will see that the Tribulation, the 70th week of Daniel, is over before the wrath of God begins, which means that it is over before the 1st trumpet judgement.

Hi Light, 

Yes, the tribulation for the Church, the saints, will be over before the Wrath of God begins. But, the 70th week of Daniel is not over.

The Wrath of God....ie, the seven trumpets and the seven vials or bowls occurs in the last year, the 7th year. The church is raptured at the end of the 6th year. That is Math 24: 29-30.....and Rev 6:12-13

"As it was in the days of Noah"...Math 24:37........Noah and his family were in the Ark for 1 year and 10 days. The trumpet judgments will last for 1 year.....then the bowls will be poured out during  the "10 days of AWE".............these are the Wrath of God.

[JoeCanada]

11 hours ago, The Light said:

After God defeats Gog and his army, God feeds them to the birds of the air (Ezek. 39: 17-20). This is an exact match with Rev. 19: 17 -18 where God calls the birds to gather to feast on the bodies of the Antichrist forces after the Battle of Armageddon.

Could be a match if you only had this piece of information. But we have other information that says this occurs after the 1000 years.

Hi Light,

I don't see this, "the birds feasting on the bodies of Antichrist forces" as happening at the end of the millennium.

If you can show differently, then please do.

[JoeCanada]

11 hours ago, The Light said:

God calls Gog’s forces a cloud that covers the land which is a match with God’s description of them in Joel 2:2.

No, Joel 2 is talking about a day of clouds and darkness. Not a match whatsoever.

Joel 2

² A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

Hi Light,

 Joel is describing "A great people and a strong (people)"....like "darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness".

" a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."...... surely, this is talking about the armies. 

Do you not see that "darkness, gloominess, clouds" is just a metaphor to describe the HORDES of the Antichrist's armies?