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Spock

Mid Trib rapture anyone?

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3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Now to fit the seals in the picture.

In Rev. 5 we see a picture of the Son receive the legal document, the title deeds of the earth. The Father, as promised gives it to His Son, His Heir. (Rev. 5: 7)

`...His Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things,...` (Heb.1: 2)

`Ask of Me and I will give you the nations for your inheritance, and the ends of the earth for your possession.` (Ps. 2: 😎

We are then privy to seeing what the Father has written on the scroll. (Come & see...) What we see, I believe, is a PREVIEW of what judgments the Son has to execute. We actually don`t see the Lord executing those judgments till Ch. 8. There he is represented as the angel/messenger of the covenant, at the altar on the Day of Atonement. This is preparing for Israel`s final National Deliverance.

So let`s put out the seals in order and then on a time line.

1234 seals, (horsemen, a group) 5th seal, martyrs, 6th seal, Great earthquake, 7th Silence.

 

I think the martyrs, the 5th seal, are the easiest to place on our time line, as we know when that will take place in the tribulation. The A/C persecutes the believers when he comes to power halfway through the tribulation. These ones do not take the mark of the beastly Leader of the final Gentile Global Government.

 

5thseal2.jpg.9ec4fb89e5c8881bd32b35402baffa69.jpg

 

 

Sorry, Marilyn, but all this is human reasoning gone wild. You are rearranging what is written so it is guaranteed to be wrong. 

Your theory on the seals is also faulty. They are sealing the book. Their purpose is to prevent anyone other than the Redeemer from opening these seals and getting the book open, which will get Satan kicked down and out.  I am convinced Satan had something to do with what each seal would be. He was sure no one would ever escape death and Hades to become the redeemer - so he would remain the god of this world forever.  Of course God knows everything and KNEW Jesus would prevail. 

In chapter 5 we notice John saw the very moment Jesus ascended and sent the Holy Spirit down. This gives us TIMING information showing us that the first seals were opened as soon as Jesus ascended. The first seal then is the church sent out with the Gospel. Seals 2-4 are to represent the devil's attempts to stop the advance of the gospel. And the 5th seal is for the martyrs of the CHURCH AGE. AT the 5th seal is the first hint of a long waiting period. God told them they most wait for the entire number of church age martyrs before judgment will come.

Notice carefully, the very next verse is the 6th seal where judgment begins.

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4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

Yes I think I can nail them like we did the others. Will go and prepare.

Marilyn.

I don't think so!

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4 hours ago, Spock said:

The seals?  I know you see them as an overview with the trumpets and bowls as the details, but regarding the timing....if you have any profound reasoning to support the timing, I’m all ears. 

PS. I think lamad is pretty set in his ways. He sees the 7th trumpet at midpoint and I don’t think you, I, or Joel Osteen (big grin) can talk him out of it. 

Spock, you must understand, Jesus Christ, the head of the church sent me to FIND the exact midpoint "clearly marked." He told me where and how to find it. Of course NO ONE can talk me out of the truth.  It is not that I am "set in my ways," it is that Jesus taught me. 

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9 hours ago, Spock said:

Marilyn,

thank you for taking the time to do this,

im thinking as you are thinking although I’m not sure the reason you gave for the 5th trumpet to be after the midpoint can hold up to a rebuttal (by lamad).  

I guess you can say “the Star falling from heaven opening the abyss” is Satan......and we all know this happens at the midpoint, right? 

Well Marilyn, I like this interpretation....I’m sure LAmad won’t agree.....but it does have logic to it.  So, for now, I’m going to embrace this as my thinking because it actually confirms what I feel very strongly about....the 6th seal is released at the END of the week and not the middle, as our distinguished brother (LAmad) believes. 

Thanks again Marilyn......I lift up my cup your way on this one.

spock

Spock, how in the world are you going to get the book open to start the trumpet judgments if one seal remains to the end of the week! Now you have pushed off all the trumpets and vials to AFTER the week. It this wasn't so sad, it would be funny. Note carefully, in chapter 8, after the 7th seal is opened, we read what is INSIDE THE BOOK. No, it does not say it in so many words, but it is true anyway.

Satan was SURE no one would ever escape his hell and be found worthy to open the seals - but God sure showed Him!

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22 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

So now we are up to looking at how all those details fit into the trumpet sequence.

First, we see that Satan and his (active)demons are cast to the earth at the mid-point of trib. This lines up with the 5th trumpet which gives a picture of Satan falling to the earth and releasing the demons that have been locked for awhile, onto the earth.

             5th trumpet

.........I......................................................................................................................I...>                       

  Satan & demons on the earth.

 

Secondly, we see that the 6th trumpet judgment starts with the great army and continues through to the 2 witnesses being killed, (3.5 days), and then rising, and finally the Great earthquake, which completes the second woe.

 

             5th Trumpet (woe)                              6th Trumpet / woe           7th T woe

.........I....................................................................................................................I...>                       

     Satan & demons                                             Gt. Army      Gt. EarthQ.                                          

      on the earth.

Sorry, but the midpoint of the trib is NOT at the 5th trumpet. That is myth.  Next, you are in error on the two witnesses, not recognizing that 11:4 through 11:13 are written as a parenthesis. The truth is, they SHOW UP just 3.5 days before the midpoint (7th trumpet), testify for 1260 days, which will take them to just 3.5 days before the end of the week. They will lay dead for those 3.5 days, they be raised "on the last day" when all the rest of the Old Covenant saints raise. 

You have one TINY part right: the earthquake when the two witnesses rise is the very same earthquake at the 7th vial that ends the week - because BOTH are at the end of the week.

 

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23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

So let`s do a time line from the second half of the tribulation.

1.From the time of Michael standing up for Israel till their power is shattered, there will be 3  ½ yrs, `time, times and half a time.` (Dan. 12: 1 & 7)

 

.......I.................................(3 ½ yrs).................................................I                    

Israel`s time for national Deliverance  (time, times and half a time. Dan. 12: 1)  

           

2.Next we read that God is measuring, (discerning) those in Israel who are seeking Him, (worship at the altar). The holy city will then be trodden down by the Gentile (nations), for 42 months.

.......I.................................(3 ½ yrs).................................................I                   

 Israel`s time for national Deliverance  (time, times and half a time. Dan. 12: 1)                                         

 Holy City, (Jerusalem) trodden down by Gentiles for 42 months...................

 

3.Then we see that the 2 witnesses, (Moses & Elijah) will witness to Israel (& the world) of what they witnessed of Jesus, (His death, resurrection and ascension). Let`s put them on the time line.

.......I.................................(3 ½ yrs).................................................I                  

  Israel`s time for national Deliverance  (time, times and half a time. Dan. 12: 1)                                          

  Holy City, (Jerusalem) trodden down by Gentiles for 42 months...................                                          

  The 2 Witnesses prophecy for 1,260 days.....................................(3 ½ days).

 

4.Michael, Israel`s Great Prince stands up against Satan and casts Him to the earth. This means Satan`s power & authority is limited. Satan goes off to make war with those in Israel who turned to God. This is for `time, times and half a time.` (Rev.12: 14)

.......I.................................(3 ½ yrs).................................................I                   

 Israel`s time for national Deliverance  (time, times and half a time. Dan. 12: 1)                                          

  Holy City, (Jerusalem) trodden down by Gentiles for 42 months...................                                          

  The 2 Witnesses prophecy for 1,260 days......................................(3 ½ days).                                         

   Satan cast down & persecutes those in Israel following God..`time, times & half time.` (Rev. 12: 14)

 

5.The  anti-Christ leader of the Global Government is given authority to rule for 42 months.

.......I......................................(3 ½ yrs).................................................I             

 Israel`s time for national Deliverance  `time, times and half a time`....................                                                     

 Holy City, (Jerusalem) trodden down by Gentiles for 42 months.........................                                     

 The 2 Witnesses prophecy for 1,260 days............................................(3 ½ days).                                  

 Satan persecutes Israel, `time, times & half a time.` ...........................................               

The anti-Christ given authority for 42 months.....................................................

 

Quite a lot of detail that God has given for events over the last part of the Tribulation.

Next we need to look at how that all fits into the trumpet sequence.

Wow! You are getting some things right for a change: GOOD JOB! But Moses already died. He will probably not die twice. It will be Enoch and Elijah. 

4. Michael's signal to go after Satan will be the 7th trumpet: exact midpoint. Why then? Adam's 6000 year lease on earth will terminate: suddenly Satan will have no legal hold to earth.

I don't think you have the two witnesses testifying in the last half - but I HOPE you do, for it is correct. In truth, there will be 5 parallel paths (countdowns) to the end of the week: the 42 months of trampling, the 1260 days of witnessing, the 1260 days of fleeing, the 3.5 years of protection, and the 42 months of Authority. Of course it is impossible to write parallel events chronologically, but the truth is, the start of these countdowns is staggered, so John covers them in the exact order they will start. 

Just so you know, although you probably won't believe it: the trumpet judgments are OVER at the midpoint. 

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23 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

When I am guided by the Holy Spirit in Biblical discussions, it is brought to my remembrance other scriptures on the subject. (John 14: 26 & 15: 13) And this is what is needed otherwise we go off into our imaginings.

Now Rev. 8 - 13 concerns the 3rd vision, the unveiling of the Lord as the Mediator of the Covenant. Thus we see Him in the heavenly sanctuary preparing for the Day of Atonement - Israel`s National deliverance. (Rev. 8: 3)The trumpets are the judgments upon the rebellious. The time line of these we will go into after we do Rev. 10 - 13.

 In Rev. 10 we see the Lord as the angel/messenger of the Covenant, (Mal. 3: 1). We see His great authority over the land & sea. Lifting His hand He swore by Himself, as God could swear by no one greater. (Heb. 6: 13) He also has a little book in His hand.

Now we go the Prophet Daniel to gain more information. There in Rev. 12 we read about the time of trouble, (as never before) and of a man who swore by God that the time for Israel`s tribulation to be over, will be `time, times and half a time,` (3 ½ yrs). The book has names of those who sought God, (Dan. 12 : 1 & 2,  Mal. 3: 16)

`So a book of remembrance was written before Him, for those who fear the Lord and meditate on His name.` (Malachi 3: 16)  

 There we see the timing of Rev. 10 as the middle of the Tribulation. It is good to have that point as then we can slot in all the other times.

I will do my comments a section at a time as you may want to comment or ask a question on that point raised. 

There we see the timing of Rev. 10 as the middle of the Tribulation. It is good to have that point as then we can slot in all the other times.

Sorry, this is not true. The 7th trumpet in chapter 11 is the exact midpoint.

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I will be out of town for spring break, so I will not be ignoring you all - I just won't have access to a computer.

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6 hours ago, Spock said:

Marilyn,

My first question is this:  how can you be so sure every place there is an earthquake mentioned in Revelation, that it is the same one?  (Rev 6, 11, 16) The details are always different. 

Hi Spock,

So let`s look at the 3 times a Great Earthquake is mentioned and see if they are the same or at different times.

(Rev. 6: 12 - 17,      11: 11 - 14,     16: 18 - 21)

Rev. 11: 11 - 14

`Now after the 3 ½ days the breath of life from God, entered them, (2 witnesses), and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell upon those who saw them. And then I heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they ascended to heaven in a cloud and their enemies saw them.

In the same hour there was a Great Earthquake, and a tenth of the city, (Jerusalem) fell. In the earthquake seven thousand men were killed and the rest were afraid and gave glory to God in heaven.

The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.` (Rev. 11: 11 - 14)

Here we see a quick view of the Great Earthquake, as it has to do with Jerusalem. Ch. 11 concerns Jerusalem so that is why the reference to the Great Earthquake is just confined to that. Now we know that that Great earthquake is at the end of the 2 Witnesses` testimony, at the end of the tribulation.

 (The 3 ½ days is included in the 1,260 days of their testimony, as what a great witness to the Lord as the resurrection and life, as they are brought to life and ascend to heaven.)

 

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Hi Spock,

Rev. 16: 18 - 21.

`And they gathered them together to the place called in Hebrew, Armageddon.

Then the 7th angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, “It is done!”

And there were noises and thunder and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such a mighty and great earthquake as had not occurred since men were on the earth.

Now the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath.

Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And great hail from heaven fell upon men, every hailstone about the weight of a talent. And men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since the plague was exceedingly great.` (Rev.16: 16 - 21)

Here are some more details of this Great earthquake that had not been previously. Notice it is just after the world`s armies gather at Armageddon.

 

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