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Mid Trib rapture anyone?


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28 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

My view of chapters 4 & 5 of Revelation is that it is a before & after approach that's used to show the worthiness of Jesus.  The pivotal event is His death and resurrection.  Before Jesus lived His life of perfect obedience to the will of the Father, there was no one found worthy to be given the dominion that Adam and Eve lost to the usurper, Satan.  After His death and resurrection, He was found worthy and was given all authority in heaven and on earth.

The 24 elders are present in the throne room when no one was found worthy to open the scroll so they were there before the Word became flesh and overcame the world.  As to who the 24 elders are, it's not clear.  They could be spirit beings like the watchers, or they could be OT representatives.  The only thing clear to me is that they were there before the new covenant began and can not represent the church.

Thanks for sharing.

if you break down the book of Revelation according to Jesus words in 1:19 as the following:

a. Things that was-chapter 1

b. Things that are- chapters 2 and 3

c. Things that will be (future)- chapters 4-22

then it may be possible the 24 elders represent the church because they come AFTER the things that are...the 7 churches which represent the CHURCH AGE.  I think this is part of the thinking that supports a 24 elders 

Me personally, I stay away from debating this because it has been a source of discouragement for me. I prefer to merely listen to all arguments. 

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There sure is a lot of work being done trying to figure out when the rapture will occur, all the while we have been told when.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.  Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

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2 minutes ago, OneLight said:

There sure is a lot of work being done trying to figure out when the rapture will occur, all the while we have been told when.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.  Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

Hi OL,

if you are proposing simply the rapture occurs at the 7th trumpet in Revelation, I have to be honest with you and tell you I have rejected that “simple” like of reasoning. It didn’t work for me on many levels, but I can see why one would adhere to it, especially if you only believe God’s wrath is poured out on the earth through the BOWLS (not seals or trumpets).  I’m not there.

thanks for sharing,

spock

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9 minutes ago, OneLight said:

There sure is a lot of work being done trying to figure out when the rapture will occur, all the while we have been told when.

1 Corinthians 15:51-53

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.  For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.  Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.  Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Spock said:

Hi OL,

if you are proposing simply the rapture occurs at the 7th trumpet in Revelation, I have to be honest with you and tell you I have rejected that “simple” like of reasoning. It didn’t work for me on many levels, but I can see why one would adhere to it, especially if you only believe God’s wrath is poured out on the earth through the BOWLS (not seals or trumpets).  I’m not there.

thanks for sharing,

spock

I was only trying to point to the last trumpet.  Figure out when it will be blown and you have your answer.  If scripture tells us when, why focus elsewhere?

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33 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

John was weeping because the search he watched take place to find someone worthy to open the seals ended in failure: "no man was found." It seems John knew (by revelation knowledge) that it was extremely important that these seals be opened. When we realize that the opening of the seals (so that the book can be opened) will lead to The END of Satan's reign as god of this world, we see just how important this was. 

Just where WAS Jesus?  Surely you know that for 32 or so years Jesus was NOT in heaven. When John saw God on the throne but Jesus NOT at His right hand, God is showing us TIMING: a time while Jesus was on the earth or under the earth. When "no man was found" we know it was before Jesus rose from the dead. As soon as He rose, as the redeemer of mankind, He WAS found worthy: Rev. 5.  Then He ascended back into heaven and John got to see this moment in time, when the Holy Spirit was sent down.

Spock, I think the elders were not yet resurrected and were elders of the Old Covenant. At that moment in time, Jesus had not yet risen because after this "no man was found." Is there anything written about them that would suggest they were already resurrected? I suspect when Jesus arose, He resurrected some of the elders of the Old Covenant, but that seems too late for John to have seen them. Since the timing of this vision was before Christ arose, this could not include New Testament saints. 

Hi LA,

i hear what you are saying. I believe I read this line of thinking in David Lowe’s book, Earthquake Resurrection. I can’t say that when I read it I bought it lock stock and barrel. That’s not to say it can’t be right; rather it just didn’t sit well with me. (I didn’t shout out, “Yessssss!”) 

i agree, it could possibly fit....that the reason John did not see anyone on earth, in Heaven, or under the earth was BECAUSE JESUS WAS ASCENDING right at that moment, so he was in neither of those camps. I just have not been able to say Amen to that line of reasoning. 

As for the 24 elders identity, I have no comment....I prefer to read and process everyone’s thoughts. I’ve been frustrated enough over the years contemplating these dudes. Lol

great to hear from you again. I’ve always enjoyed reading your words and fellowshipping with you. You turned me on to Peter Goodgames thoughts/blog, and that has been such a blessing for me as well. 

Thanks,

spock

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3 hours ago, Spock said:

One more question Rev Man for now: you said APOLLYON was the scarlet colored beast in Rev 17. Is this another Beast separate from the Beast of Rev 13, the antichrist?  Just want to make sure I am understanding the conclusions you are making  correctly. 

Thanks,

I made an argument on another Christian Message Board that Apollyon was the Scarlet Colored Beast that WAS...............IS NOT..............YET IS. I got this REPLY back from another poster, I will BLUE IT.

I'm not sure you're aware of your contradictions? Satan is the head of all the fallen angels and a Beast in his own right. Apollyon, on the other hand, is not. He is described merely as an angel - I'm not disputing his power and who he will overcome. Just wanted to correct that Apollyon/Abaddon is NOT A BEAST as you previously asserted. You keep shifting from Apollyon to Satan as the one who was and is not and will be again without explaining why? Seems to me you are just throwing pebbles in the dark - the one that hits a target is the right one. But you're wrong because neither of your choices fit.  

The Beast that was is no more and will be again is the Antichrist (Rev 13, little horn of Dan 7). It is not Apollyon or Satan! This is easy to understand; the beast has to have physically appeared BEFORE to fulfil the claim that he has been or "was" and will once again appear physically. Only the Antichrist fulfils this. Although Satan has orchestrated every conceivable sin and abomination since Adam, he has, however, remained in spirit form and has NEVER done anything on record as a physical being.

So I got more DETAILED on him, and he then changed his mind, so I will use the same Argument !! Apollyon is the Scarlet Colored Beast: 

So one has ( Rev. 12 Beast/Satan/Dragon ) 7 Crowns, one has ( Anti-Christ/Little Horn Beast ) 10 Crowns and one has ( Apollyon ) NO CROWNS mentioned and you think they are nor not three different entries? I have followed this to its logical conclusion brother.

I can show you my so called "footnotes" I guess.

In Rev. 9 a Star {Angel} falls from Heaven and opens the Bottomless Pit. The Locust {Demons} go forth on earth and they are led by the King of the Bottomless Pit Abaddon or Apollyon, he is the Angel of Sheol so to speak or of death, where men will be banished unto, as well as Demons. He is called the Destroyer in the Greek. 

In Rev. 11 we see that the Beast that ASCENDS out of the Bottomless Pit KILLS the Two-witnesses, and we know that the Anti-Christ is a man that comes forth at the First Seal, he's not a Demon who comes forth at the 1st Woe !!

Rev. 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them {Two-witnesses.}

Then in Rev. 17 we are told the Beast that Ascends out of the Bottomless Pit is the one who WAS......IS NOT......YET IS.

Rev. 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Who is the only one mentioned by name in all three passages ? Abollyon, the Demon King Released from the Bottomless Pit, his Kingdom is Sheol or Death. He was over the Mediterranean Region before the 1st Woe, but how do we know this for sure ? The bible tells us. HE WAS OF THE 7 and is an 8th !!

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

So Apollon is of the 7. That means before he was placed in the Bottomless Pit he was over the Mediterranean Sea Region. and after he gets out he will be over the Anti-Christ. 

I go by the scriptures, I don't just guess brother. Thus he is called a Beast with NO CROWNS in Rev. 17 because his Kingdom is not a part of the Mediterranean Sea Region, his Kingdom is the Bottomless Pit. But he was assigned the Mediterranean Sea Region until he was locked in the Bottomless Pit. So he is described as a Beast in Rev. 17, the Beast that came out of the Pit, Satan is in Heaven, men do not die and get reborn !! It can only be Apollyon !! Satan assigns Demons to cities/regions/states/countries all the time.

Rev. 12 is about Satan, thus the 7 Crowns on 7 Heads SIGNIFIES who he is.

Rev. 13 is about the Anti-Christ, thus the 10 Crowns on the Horns {Kings} that give him his power, SIGNIFYING who he is.

Rev. 17 tells us of a Demon Power placed over the Mediterranean Sea Region, Satan assigns these Demons of course, so he has the "CROWNS", Apollyon has NO CROWNS !! Thus this SIGNIFIES Apollyon as the Demon Entity that was OVER THE SIX {Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome}, who was then placed in the Pit, who was then released at the 1st Woe, and is placed over the Region once again, he thus is the Demon who has been charged by Satan to bring a World Government to Power from the Mediterranean Sea Region. He is Apollyon, the King over the Bottomless Pit or Sheol. 

Why would Satan be the one that IS NOT ? He's not locked in a pit and never has been. Now a fews years back, before I was given the Apollyon angle I might have been like you are on this subject. I never thought he was the Anti-Christ, men are judged ONCE. I never knew the Apollyon angle until 2 or 3 years ago, But I have been consistent, probably as long as I have been on here. Not knowing and then being given something is what we call revelation, God gives us knew understandings every day, if we are listening. But I have been on to Apollyon for 2 or 3 years, nothing has changed at all brother. maybe you are confusing me with someone else.

P.S. Men do not go to the Pit and return.

The Beast/Antichrist is a personality empowered by Satan. When scripture says he was and will come again, it's not saying that the first manifestation (A4E) will yet rise again as the man who died 2500 years ago. I don't know anyone that denies that A4E was the antitype of the future A/C? We are told in Rev 13:2 that "the dragon [Satan] gives power and great authority to the A/C. { I placed his POST here to show what portion I am answering }

Antiochus Epiphanes is a TYPE of Anti-Christ as is Jason a TYPE of the False Prophet, that is because Satan is always trying to accomplish the same thing. No man arises out if he Bottomless Pit brother, people say that because they can't figure out Rev. 17, but I was given Rev. 17. So I understand the confusion, I didn't know it for 25 plus years myself. So I have been there brother. 

You are the only one in the whole wide world who claim to know where the Antichrist will come from. I have never come across any scholars with such bullish claim. But whether you are right or wrong is not for me to say. But I can at least point out your little error; you said the A/C will arise from Greece, come to power in the EU and that he's an Assyrian Turk. Not sure whether you realise this doesn't make sense?

1. If he actually comes from Greece, then he doesn't need to "come to power in the EU" since Greece is in the EU.
2. A "Turk" is a citizen of Turkey, a country that is not in the EU. 
3. I hope you can work out your mistake?
{ Again, a PORTION of his Post I placed here and thus my rebut below }

Sure he does, he has to have 10 Confederates {some say 10 Means FULLNESS, and thus it could mean 20-25 countries WHO KNOWS} and thus I stick with the 10 Kings who are described as Horns/powers, who give their power unto him. So he has to come to power in the E.U. 

He is an Assyrian by heritage, but if he's born in Greece, and comes to power in the E.U., he's still an Assyrian right ? 

Say we had a prophecy from 200 years ago in 1819 that stated in three different places that 1.) He would be a Mexican 2.) He would be born in one of Four States under a Heberals control 3.) And that he would come to power in a Beast [know to be the USA]. How would we figure this out ? 

Well if the only one of the Four States/Districts that was in America was Texas, and we knew the BEAST was the USA by Default, then we would understand, a Guy of Mexican Heritage, would come to power in the USA and he would have to be born in Texas. 

The Scriptures demand that this be true, because I understand the passages, its my calling. 

Now what boosts this understanding ? The Daniel 11 scriptures goes the extra mile to detail every King of the North vs. King of the South throughout history, then we are given the Anti-Christ TYPE in Antiochus and if we research we are also given the TYPE of the False Prophet in Jason. Then in verses 36-45 we are told about this King of the North and his Conquests in Detail. And we know he arises out of the Fourth Beast via Daniel 7............It all fits. He comes to power in the E.U. Power Structure, of course. {Fourth Beast}.

His next post said this................

I concede that you are right. Apollyon is the beast that was and is not. Thanks for clarifying. 

He agrees on my Apollyon argument, ABOVE, but will not budge on my understanding of where The Anti-Christ MUST BE BORN, Below: 

On the origin of the Antichrist and where he will come from, your exegesis is more conjecture than scripturally factual. Furthermore, there is nothing in Dan 11 that pertains to the future Antichrist.....See what I am up against via his thinking on Daniel 11 ? 

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1 hour ago, Spock said:

Thanks for sharing.

if you break down the book of Revelation according to Jesus words in 1:19 as the following:

a. Things that was-chapter 1

b. Things that are- chapters 2 and 3

c. Things that will be (future)- chapters 4-22

then it may be possible the 24 elders represent the church because they come AFTER the things that are...the 7 churches which represent the CHURCH AGE.  I think this is part of the thinking that supports a 24 elders 

Me personally, I stay away from debating this because it has been a source of discouragement for me. I prefer to merely listen to all arguments. 

I agree but don't think that that precludes a brief backstory.

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10 hours ago, Spock said:

Lots of good stuff again here,

i know many are expecting a rapture on the Feast of Trumpets but I wonder how the “no man knows the DAY or hour” plays into that.  I suppose Jesus could only be talking about UNBELIEVERS who live in darkness.  We are the children of light and those watching do have knowledge and should NOT BE SURPRISED. 

We will not know the day nor the hour, but we can know the season. We can't know the year, thus we can't know the day nor the hour. But just like the Jewish Bride, she of course was expectant, after all she was engaged !! She understood the Bridegroom was building the room/bridal chambers in his fathers house. So she was expecting a SHOUT at any moment in time, especially around midnight on many nights !! But we will not know the day nor the hour.

10 hours ago, Spock said:

Again, the 7 days in the chamber after marriage certainly does seem symbolic to the 7 years of hiding. I agree, it is circumstantial evidence, but still evidence.  The Isaiah 26 passage seems to corroborate a 7 year waiting period as well, although I’m sure it is possible to infer a 3.5 waiting period instead.  In fact, this is part of the reason for me starting this thread. I was wondering about the possibility that if the DOTL is only 3.5 years and not 7, that the rapture might happen immediately before the DOTL commences. 

Having the rapture precede the DOTL by about 3.5 years is certainly doable but I was wondering if it needs be. My thinking is simply asking the following: 

a. Can the church still be present during the time of Jacobs trouble (week 70)? 

B. Is the removal of the church (restrainer) necessary for the PEACE TREATY TO GET SIGNED? 

C. Is it possible that during the time of PEACE AND SAFETY on earth (post peace treaty signing) there will NOT be any of God’s judgments.....seals and trumpets?  In other words, can the first half of week 70  (3.5 years) be seal and trumpet free? 

The Rapture is not exactly what many people think it is. Many seem to think we zoom to heaven, but that is just not the case, just as those in the grace arise as "Spirit Men" without corruption, likewise, we who are alive and remain must also change unto Spirit Men {in the TWINKLING of an eye we die} and put off our corrupt flesh, which can not enter Heaven {see Mary in John ch. 20, who couldn't even touch Jesus before he went to Heaven to offer the Sacrifice}. So at the Rapture, those who are alive will die !! Their Spirit Man will thus ascend to Heaven and be given their Glorious body. 

So its not a Rapture where they will have to explain it, they will explain the deaths as some sort of Plagues. But people who know will see it was only Christians who died !! The Jews, IMHO, at least some will, understand that this was something of God. This will help them repent when the Two-witnesses come, at least 1/3 will repent.

There are KEY SCRIPTURES that lead us to believe that the Church must be gone. 

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And the Pre-Wrath and Pre-Tribulation Raptures are Juxtaposed below: 

Pre-Wrath Rapture

A variation of the mid-Tribulation Rapture is the pre-wrath Rapture concept that places the Rapture at some point in the last quarter of the Tribulation, about five and a half years into the Tribulation.

The argument for this view is that the Church is promised protection only from the wrath of God and not the wrath of Man or of Satan. It is then argued that only the Trumpet and Bowl Judgments constitute the wrath of God, and these are placed in the last quarter of the Tribulation, despite the fact that the book of Revelation clearly places the Trumpet Judgments in the first half of the Tribulation. They maintain that the Seal Judgments are the wrath of Man and Satan.

This view disintegrates when you consider the fact that it is Jesus Himself who breaks the seals that launch each of the Seal Judgments recorded in Revelation 6. These judgments occur at the beginning of the Tribulation, and they are referred to as “the wrath of the Lamb” (Revelation 6:16).

All the judgments of Revelation are clearly superintended by God. That is the reason we are told in Revelation 15:1 that the Bowl Judgments at the end of the Tribulation will finish the wrath of God, not begin His wrath.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture

I believe the best inference of Scripture is that the Rapture will occur at the beginning of the Tribulation. The most important reason I believe this has to do with the issue of imminence.

Over and over in Scripture we are told to watch for the appearing of the Lord. We are told “to be ready” (Matthew 24:44), “to be on the alert” (Matthew 24:42), “to be dressed in readiness” (Luke 12:35), and to “keep your lamps alight” (Luke 12:35). The clear force of these persistent warnings is that Jesus can appear at any moment.

Only the pre-Tribulation concept of the Rapture allows for the imminence of the Lord’s appearing for His Church. When the Rapture is placed at any other point in time, the imminence of the Lord’s appearing is destroyed because other prophetic events must happen first.

For example, if the Rapture is going to occur in mid-Tribulation, then why should I live looking for the Lord’s appearing at any moment? I would be looking instead for an Israeli peace treaty, the rebuilding of the Temple, and the revelation of the Antichrist. Then and only then could the Lord appear.

Focus

This raises the issue of what we are to be looking for. Nowhere are believers told to watch for the appearance of the Antichrist. On the contrary, we are told to watch for Jesus Christ. In Titus 2:13 Paul says we are to live “looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.” Likewise, Peter urges us to “fix our hope completely on the grace to be brought to us at the revelation of Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 1:13). John completes the apostolic chorus by similarly urging us to “fix our hope on Him” at His appearing (1 John 3:2-3).

Only Matthew speaks of watching for the Antichrist (Matthew 24:15), but he is speaking to the Jews living in Israel in the middle of the Tribulation when the Antichrist desecrates the rebuilt Temple.

10 hours ago, Spock said:

Your model has these answers:

a. No...time of Jacobs trouble is the entire week 70, and church MUST BE GONE.

B. YES...in order for the AC to rise up, church (restrainer) must be gone. AC rises up at peace treaty, not abomination of desolation.

c. YES...all seal and trumpet judgments occur in 2nd half of week 70, after the AOD. 

Im considering all of this now. Your model of putting all seals, trumpets, and bowls AFTER the AOD is obviously not the traditional model and has not been promoted by many. I can recall reading only one other article promoting such. I do remember being impressed at the time I read the article but did not go any further with it.....until now. 

I think you will find out that the vast Majority of Christendom actually sees it as I do, these Message Boards are a different thing. Anyone that sees the First Seal as the Middle of the week {Anti-Christ} would have to see all of the Judgments in the Second Half of the 70th week. I think....NOT SURE....But I think you are seeing some people speak on Tribulation and they are speaking about the last 3.5 years, not a FULL 7 YEARS, and its throwing you off kilter as per what they are thinking or saying. I see 75 to 85 percent of Christendom as understanding that the Anti-Christ comes forth in the Middle of the Week, and is thus the First Seal being opened. 

God Bless.

The AoD..................and the Two-witnesses showing up 75 days before I will get into later.........Wife says lunch is served !! 

Edited by Revelation Man
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6 hours ago, Spock said:

 

c. YES...all seal and trumpet judgments occur in 2nd half of week 70, after the AOD. 

Im considering all of this now.

Hi Spock,

While you are considering that you may want to think about what the Holy Spirit said through the Apostle Paul -

`For when they say, "Peace and Safety!" then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION comes upon them as LABOUT PAINS upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.` (1 Thess. 5: 3)

We can see that after the Peace Treaty people are saying "Peace & Safety!" at last. But then God intervenes and SUDDENLY DESTUCTION! And we are shown these destructions in Revelation, and they gradually increase in intensity, just like labour pains of a pregnant woman. (see my last post.)

How can it be `tribulation,` if there is no tribulation???? (seals and trumpets) Therefore the seals (what is to be judged) & trumpets, (actual judgments) will start at the beginning of the tribulation, that is why it is called `The Tribulation.` (lol)

Marilyn.

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10 minutes ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Spock,

While you are considering that you may want to think about what the Holy Spirit said through the Apostle Paul -

`For when they say, "Peace and Safety!" then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION comes upon them as LABOUT PAINS upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.` (1 Thess. 5: 3)

We can see that after the Peace Treaty people are saying "Peace & Safety!" at last. But then God intervenes and SUDDENLY DESTUCTION! And we are shown these destructions in Revelation, and they gradually increase in intensity, just like labour pains of a pregnant woman. (see my last post.)

How can it be `tribulation,` if there is no tribulation???? (seals and trumpets) Therefore the seals (what is to be judged) & trumpets, (actual judgments) will start at the beginning of the tribulation, that is why it is called `The Tribulation.` (lol)

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

just want you to know I may not respond to every post, but I am reading them all. Sometimes I just take in what is being said and don’t have any questions or rebuttal to add.....just pondering the words and processing. 

As for this post, you said, “why is it called “the tribulation” if there are no seals or trumpet judgments?  I’m actually not aware of the entire 7 years being called the tribulation. Can you show me scripture that says that. I am aware that the last 3.5 years is called TRIBULATION by Jesus in Matthew 24. But I know of nowhere where the entire week is called TRIBULATION.  I just assumed that is a pre Trib term to serve their interests. Lol

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